Cichlid harmony

[nattybrack]

Newbie here...
I have a 10 gal w/ 4 african cichlids all different species w/ a circle 8 puffer, and am in the process of setting up a 55 gal. I saw somewhere that cichlids do better in pairs. Is this all species or just some? If they are in pairs, should they be male & female? How do I tell the difference? Apologies for the multitude of questions, any help is greatly appreciated.

[Reiner]

depending on what Africans you have most are harem spawners and you need at least 3 females for each male. If you tell us which ones you have we could help you a whole lot better.

[nattybrack]

As of now (awaiting the move to the 55 gal), I have...

1 auratus
1 kenyi
1 red zebra
1 red fin borleyi
1 silvertip shark
1 figure 8 puffer

All cichlids are 2".

[nattybrack]

Doing some more research I found out that what my LFS told me, as far as identification may be wrong.

The Auratus may be a Chipokee
The Kenyi may be an Aurora
The Red Zebra may be a Orange Chromide

go Petco!

If anyone has some tips on properly ID'ing these guys/gals, it would be appreciated.

[ChilDawg]

Although I cannot recall which puffers are brackish and which are chiefly freshwater, a puffer with your rift lake cichlids is probably not a good idea. Even if somehow they are compatible in terms of water quality, eventually one fish will maim another (and puffers are notorious for fin-nipping).

If, by a Silvertip Shark, you mean Belantiocheilus melanopterus, they get to be 12" long, and they move around like crazy. A 4' long tank is not too small for such an active swimmer, but a 55g definitely is. Besides, they like clear, strongly filtered water with low pH (they live in streams).

You're then, by my calculations, talking about three tanks at the least, not just the one 55g.

[nattybrack]

You were right with the Belantiocheilus melanopterus he was very active and was getting really big, really quickly. I donated him back to the store where I bought him a few weeks ago, he was way to hyper for me, and didn't really interact with any of the other fish, just swam around like a nut.

I went ahead and setup the 55gal and added some new fish, not really sure if I have it over stocked now though, any thoughts?

1 auratus - 2.5"
2 kenyi (m&f) - 2.5"
1 red finned borleyi - 2"
1 orange chromide - 2"
1 electric blue - 1.5"
1 mono
2 figure 8 puffs (very small - girlfriend loves them!)
1 clown loach (had 2, although the auratus got one, thinking of bringing back to store??) - 2"

[ChilDawg]

That is very very overstocked.

I often read about dinner-plate sized monos, and these are brackish-water fish, as are the chromides.

I have conflicting reports on water specs for Fig. 8s, but they really need to be kept in a species tank, because they are nasty and will tear up anything they can get near. Solitary confinement might be best...the store will prolly buy one back.

Then you have African cichlids. You have a potential breeding pair, which might take the entire 55g plus a little more, if you can spare a larger tank for them. The rest seem to be a decent fit for the 55g, but ask around on that.

The clown loach is really not a good fit for any of these water scenarios, and, as you mentioned, the Africans will dispose of it, as will the puffers and the potential breeding pair. I don't know about the monos, but clowns are not brackish-water animals.

You have potentially 6 tanks worth of animals, perhaps seven if the monos, which dwarf them, would take out the chromides. I would recommend that you do some more research, make a decision as to what stays in the 55g and either return the rest or start buying lots of tanks.

[VoodooChild]

If you got the silver tip from Petco, there's a good chance that it's actually an Arius seemanni or jordani, which still grow to a foot. However, they like brackish water, as does your figure 8. I'd recommend keep the puffer in the 10 and doing water changes often (until you can get him at least a 20) and moving the Arius with the cichlids in the 55. Just make sure you add some salt to the water, and consider moving him or giving him away when he's full grown, upon which they should be in full salt water. Does the shark move like a cat and is bottom dwelling or does it stay more towards the middle/top and is very quick and skittiish?

[Reiner]

1. Your figure 8 puffer is a brackisch fish as mentioned above
2. Your Mono is a schooling fish and needs to be in groups of at least 5 and should be in a species only tank and not with cichlids.
3. The Auratus or Chipokee ( even worse) and the Kenyi or Aurora are vegetarian fish and should be fed accordingly. The Electric Blue and the Borleyi though are not and need protein in there diet.
Also if you really have a male and female Kenyi she will not make it long since the males court the females really aggressive and you need at least 4 females for each male. Also the Auratus could breed with your female and produce hybrids in your tank. Figure out what you want to keep and then get rid of the other fish. For instance you could have an all Mbuna tank like your Auratus and Kenyi but I would go with more peaceful species like Electric yellow, Socolofi, Saulosi or Rusty cichlids. Then you could also have an all Hap tank like you Electric blue and Borleyi. But be careful what you choose since most Haps outgrow a 55 gallon tank.
Also do yourself a favor and return the Mono since you really can't keep him with any of those fish over a long period of time. Next research everything before you buy. You could do that here or try www.cichlidrecipe.com or www.cichlid-forum.com
Hope that helps and good luck with your tank

[nattybrack]

Thank you all for your suggestions, to edit myself for a minute, the orange chromide I listed is a Red Zebra. I agree that the mono should be returned, he never really seemed to interact with any of the others. I do however have a few questions, taking into account that my girlfiriend has put a cap on my tanks at one and it's a 55gal. (still working on her though)...

If the puffs are really small now and seem to be getting along really well together (swimming together, looking for the other) is it still necessary to limit the tank to one or will they remain "friendly" and therefore can stay in the 55?

Also, with the male and female Kenyi, the female is larger than the male, and as such is the agressor. Will this change, should one of them vacate?

I'm also a little confused that the Electric Blue and the Borleyi are lake malawi but are haps not mbuna's. Is the difference that mbuna's like rocks and haps like plants? And if I have both in the tank (rocks and plants) is this sufficient for both types?

Once again a laundry list of questions, but your suggestions are appreciated.

ps - VoodoooChild - the shark did stay at the middle/top and was very skittish. He was getting big fast, very nice looking, but he just couldn't relax. Went back to Petco a few days later and he was gone, hopefully(?) he got a nice home maybee on a farm in the country with my first dog spot.

[Reiner]

What I was trying to tell you is that Auratus and Kenyi come form the Mbuna family ( rock dwelling) and need a diet that is mainly vegetarian. Spirulina based flakes as there main food would be good for them and chopped peas or a slice of Zucchini or a leaf of lettuce ....... once every few days to change things up a bit.
The Electric blue and the Borleyi come from the family of Haps which are more open water fish but still need some rocks to feel safe and secure. There diet consists of small fish, invertabrates (sp?) crustacians and zoo plankton in the wild. So you should feed them foods that are high in protein and not so much vegetable matter. If you feed high protein to the Auratus or the Kenyi they could develope Malawi bloat which is a blockage of the digestive track since they cannot handle the animal protein and die from that. So in order to feed both proberly you should only keep 1 or the other species in 1 tank. Also how do you know that you have a male and female Kenyi?

[nattybrack]

Thank you for the clarification of the hap and mbuna.

In order to clarify the female and male kenyi, I looked at pictures from:
http://www.aquahobby.com/gallery/glombardoi.html where one of the people posting said "The females are a white/silvery blueish color with black, vertical stripes. The males are yellowish-orange. "

If this is the case though, I need to change my previous post, my male is bigger than my female. Is there a better way to ID them?

Also, with the mbunas and haps, hopefully you can understand my hesitation, but is it necessary to separate them? Are there any diet combinations that may be able to compensate to ensure proper nutrition?

[Reiner]

No it is not absolutly necessary to separate those 2 species since many people keep them together for many years. But you still need to feed mainly vegetable foods. Like I said before a Spirulina based flake would be a good main food source. And maybe once a week some life or frozen Brine shrimp. Also you should really put your puffers in a different tank since they probably don't eat the Spirulina flake. Also for a male Kenyi you really need at least 4 females or you will find your single 1 dead one morning.

[nattybrack]

Just back from out of town...
I donated the auratus and the clown back to the fish store, and am happy with the effects, fish seem to be enjoying the bottom half of the tank a lot more. The next fish to be brought back to the LFS is one of the kenyi's (male 2" or female 2.5") leaning towards the female because she's not as brightly colored as the male (suggestions?), and the mono. That will leave me with:

1 kenyi (m or f)
1 red finned borleyi - 2"
1 orange chromide - 2"
1 electric blue - 1.5"
2 figure 8 puffs (very small)

I've been feeding everyone flakes and cichlid pellets (waiting to get to store for spirulina flakes) and the puffs eat both of these. Every few days I will wait till right after everyone is fed and distracted and then drop some bloodworms right in front of the puffs which they love. I am hoping with some extra care I will be able to keep the puffs in the tank, as they are a favorite.

Is this tank still overstocked (55gal)? What about a Synodontis eupterus and peacock (sorry for lack of name, can't find him on a few sites, PETCO has one though). Any other rec. if not overstocked?

[Reiner]

The Synodontis would be fine and the Peacock would also still fit in the tank. make sure the peacock doesn't get picked on to much since they are not as aggressive as your other fish and will be on the bottom of the pecking order. It's best to introduce fish after the lights are off so that he is not an imidiate target for all the other cichlids. Good luck and I'm glad you brought the Auratus back. You will not regret that move. ( they are serial killers in many tanks)

[tyler]

no matter how well they're getting along with the other fish, the puffers will do much better in a brackish tank.

[nattybrack]

Glad to hear the Synodontis and Peacock will work, thanks for the tip on adding them in the tank w/out the lights on.
Tyler, you just blew my doors off. I thought I had a brakish tank. My specific gravity is .004. I add sea salt to my 10% new water change every week. Doesn't this classify it as brakish?