Sick neon, and 40+ nitrate levels

ZeeSparrow

ZeeSparrow

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Nov 14, 2004
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I have 10 gallon tank with 6 neons, 4 ghost shrimp and 1 betta. Started with 4 very small neons about 2 weeks ago, added Bio-Spira a little over a week ago and rest of fish/shrimp then. (Had 2 adf and another shrimp in tank for 2 days before moving to their own 5 gallon.) I have been doing daily water changes of 2-3 gallons, although I must admit I didn't yesterday. Previous tests have shown 0 ammonia, 0-slight nitrites, 40+ nitrates.

Tonight, my smallest neon has a white "spot" in the middle of one side of him, just in front of his fin and almost down to the white stripe. It's fairly large, though I'm terrible at describing sizes of things.... Much bigger than the typical descriptions and pictures I've seen of ich, more like the size of a sunflower seed. None of the other fish show any signs of this, so I placed him into the vase my betta previously occupied, temporarily.

Temp 80 F
Ammonia - slight
Nitrites - slight
Nitrates - 40+

I immediately did 50% water change, added back 2 gallons, removed them - as I read that such a water change would help to reduce nitrate levels quickly. Unfortunately, my tap water shows 5 nitrates to start with.... Will test again soon.

Does this sound like neon tetra disease, fungus or something else - and if not NTD, how do I treat him?

Assuming treatment.... Can he stay in unheated vase while treating, or should he return to tank with others and I treat the whole tank? OR would it be safe to put him in 5 gallon tank currently housing 2 ADFs and 1 ghost shrimp and treat there?

Any suggestions for dealing with these ongoing high nitrate levels? (Already have plants: 2 banana, a java fern and a sword - recently added water sprite to float for betta.)

Please help!
 
Sorry I can't ID the spot, it could be a lot of things. A sunflower seed is about 1cm long - I'm thinking you mean a ~1mm sesame seed (I sure hope so, for the fish's sake!). It could be a bacterial infection, a wound, fungus... try Googling freshwater fish disease symptoms and see if you can narrow it down - even knowing what it's not will help. I wouldn't keep him in an unheated, unfiltered container - those conditions may lead to stress, which will exacerbate disease. Whether or not he needs to be isolated also depends on what's wrong so it's important to try to find out as soon as you can.
I can help with the nitrates though - you're already doing what's best; water changes are the way to lower the levels. Big ones. You've been changing ~20-30% of the water daily, sometimes skipping a day. I'd recommend you change 50%, morning and night, until you see NH3 0, NO2 0 and NO3 ~10. Water changes never hurt. It's a PITA for you, but it's temporary, and it really will help.
 
Thanks, Blinky.

Will do the twice daily 50% water changes to lower nitrates.

And I did mean sesame seed! (Told you I was bad at describing sizes, but glad you could figure it out anyhow!)

I've been googling like crazy, and I would almost bet it's a fungus. The more I look at this "spot" the more it looks like it's ON him rather than IN him if that makes any sense. Really hard to tell though cause he's so small, and he keeps moving! :rolleyes:

Although this little one does often swim alone (a symptom for neon tetra disease), he is currently right in the middle of the group, as I put him back in the tank. His swimming also doesn't seem any more erratic than the others, which is another symptom of that. Also thought I read once that took away the red color more than the blue color - someone correct me if I'm wrong on that please.

Am pretty certain it's NOT ich.

Does that help at all?
 
Did you add any salt to the tank water?
 
I always like to use salt in the tank as a preventative for a lot of these things. Not really a cure but can help things before they start. 1 teaspoon non-iodized salt per gallon is the recomended level I think, tho I tend to use a little more. For me this seems to help keep away the fungus and so forth, helps the fish slime layer, which helps with injury and infection starting. IMHO...
 
that spot sounds like neon diseaase.. mine lost all color in a vertical strip before dying... then my ghost shrimp started eating his carcas and soon after died.. fortunetly i've only lost 1 fish to neon disease, even though i had 6 other neons in with him.. so i don't think it's contagious
 
I wouldn't dose with salt unless you know you need it. Using any medications or changing environmental conditions can stress fish, and if it's not necessary, why stress them?
NTD is nasty, I hope it's not that. After the blackout last year I lost all my neons and harlequins to NTD, it was awful. Salt won't help - if you positively ID NTD, there's nothing that will cure it. If the spot looks more 'on' than 'in' the fish, it's probably a fungus/bacteria/wound - NTD destroys muscle tissue beneath the skin, and it really looks as though it's happening 'in' the fish. They become slightly misshapen (almost lumpy) as it progresses, which happens quickly. It's kindest to humanely euthanize fish with NTD before the disease progresses and they waste away.
If it's fungus, there are medications for treating it. Be certain it's fungus - there are some bacterial infections that look like fungus, and treating with a fungal med doesn't affect them.
 
Thanks for taking the time to respond.

This morning's tests show 0 ammo/nitrite with continued 40+ nitrate.

With 50% water change this morning, I dissolved 1-1/2 Tablespoon of salt in cup of tank water and gradually added ... oh about 2/3 of the water back in. I've read that tetras are sensitive to salt, and have read conflicting reports of the benefits. One site says add 1 Tbsp for each 5 gallons water, another says 1 tsp for each gallon, or 3 tsp for each gallon, while yet another says don't add any (except to treat ich). :confused:

The good news though is that it looks like the "spot" has gotten a little smaller. Could be just my imagination, or wishful thinking. He does not look any worse though. Still no sign of anything on the others, including the betta.

I will continue with 50% water changes twice daily, maybe or maybe not adding salt. Need to do more research on this before I do add more. Still debatable on whether or not to treat for fungus. I'll probably go buy something for it.... but at this point, I'd rather adopt the "wait and see" approach before treating.
 
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