i tought i fishless cycled, did i?

jonny p

jonny p

Noob
Dec 6, 2004
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0
Dublin Ireland
my tank is set up nearly 4 weeks, and has fish in it nearly 1 week, 25gal jewel tank.

anyway i found this forum way to late i found it after i bought the fish, and have read everything i can find on cycling and getting started, about adding ammonia and getting good bacteria in the filter and in the pebbles.

i wanted to set up a comunity tank

this is what my lfs told me to do when i was setting up,
1. fill the tank with water and decorations.
2. put some "natrafin Cycle" into speed up the process
and to wait 2 weeks and come back to them and they'd test my water, i did and they told me that everything seems ok but my ph is very high, so they sold me "PH down" to put in the tank, ( he said it was at nearly 7.8,) so i did this and waited another week, then went back in they said PH still high but i should just try putting some fish in and see how i get on, so i got 4 swordtails, and this is when i found this forum,
from reading different posts on this forum it was clear i needed a test kit so i got the "master test kit"

ive been measuring PH off the high scale card and its kinda between 7.4 and 7.8, i read on a few treads that its better to have constant ph rather than spiking it by using ph down, so im not using the additive any more.

fish seem very active and healthy

nitrite,nitrate and amonia are all zero is this ok, how do i know if the bacteria is set up ok in the filter?
is adding the Cycle stuff the same as adding the pure amonia?
i havent done a water change yet, should i do this? if so when and how often

when will i be able to get more fish
thank you
Jonny
 
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There is no way you could have cycled your tank with "cycle" and no fish. Also nitrate should not be at zero. I would test it again. Cycle doesn't work. It is supposed to bottled bacteria not ammonia. If your LFS told you all this I would have a talk with them. There needs to be fish in the tank as an ammonia source (or ammonia) to cycle the tank.
 
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Depending on time frames etc. you probably haven't started estabilishing your cycle. If you haven't already, read the cycle sticky.
Skip the cycle product, and get ready for a lot of water changes. things that will help would be bacteria from another tank, bio-spira, prime water conditioner in that order IMO. but the primary helper is water changes. you will see ammonia climb, and then nitrite, then nitrate, I would aim at keeping ammonia and nitrate below 0.5 ppm any time fish are in the tank. when ammonia and nitrite start dissapearing without water changes your cycle is estabilished. then you can reduce nitrates via water changes, you will never have a 0 nitrAte level in a cylced unplanted tank.
Dave
 
Yes it probably would be. Sorry I am bad at explaning stuff. I was saying if it is cycled it wouldn't be at 0. After a few weeks you will start getting a reading for nitrate since it is not cycled yet.
 
I'm surprised you aren't seeing ammonia already. Are you using any products that might be neutralizing your ammonia? Such as Amquel? Are you currently doing any water changes?

For normal maintenance, you should do 30-50% water changes every week or so. I probably do mine 3 times a month most months. Over the next few weeks, you'll probably be doing that sometimes daily to keep ammonia and nitrItes down below .50 ppm. You'll see ammonia spike first, then nitrIte. Once you start seeing nitrItes, it won't be long and nitrAtes will start showing up. When your ammonia and nitrItes stay at 0 without water changes, your cycle is completed. I try to keep nitrAtes below 20 ppm with my regular water changes.

Not sure why you're getting all 0's right now, but keep testing it every day. The ammonia could spike up quickly and harm or kill your fish. Keep us posted :)
 
I guess I should clarify, when I said depending on time frames, I meant on how long the fish were in there. the ammonia will start showing very soon, but fish activity, stocking level, and feeding practices will dictqate how much ammonia builds up. Feed lightly, it will help you. I would reccomend about 1/4 waht you think they need every other day. once ammonia starts building, you will need to do water changes accordingly. It takes very little ammonia to hurt a fish's gills, so don't be lax. The only reason I find it odd that you have no nitrates is that you have used Cycle, and it typically elevates nitrates in a tank. however, I haven't heard of anyone who used it without adding ammonia also so that may be the difference. Either way, cycle doesn't do what you need it to do so other options come with higher reccomendations. The only bacteria in a bottle that has recieved good reviews as far as I know is bio-spira. Filter mulm, gravel, filter media etc. are all natural usually free bacteria, and generally work wonders for kick starting a cycle.
Prime does a very good job of binding ammonia to protect the fish without depriving the bio-filter you are trying to estabilish. therefore in your case it would be one of the best water treatment options. there are others as good but the names escape me at the moment.
Dave
 
so i should wait till i see amonia then do the water changes?

ive been feeding them very little, a few flakes every second day, should i give ethme mor to encuorage the amonia or just let it "spike" by itself
today they are in the tank 6 dAys

thanks for the replys
 
It will raise soon enough and fast enough, I'd do a water change as soon as convenient (just to set things clean for sure and then go from there as needed. The goal of keeping the ammonia low to protect your fish will be much more difficult than getting ammonia to show up, so I wouldn't reccomend doing anything that will increase production. If you are on day 6 you should start seeing detectable ammonia very soon.

When fishy cycles are done ( not my favorite method just for the record) they can be done without hurting the fish, but it will take some work. you have one very good thing going for you in that you only have 4 swortails in a 25g tank, and you are feeding lightly. you won't see huge spikes and emergency situations like a lot of fishy cycles do. you will still need to be very dilligent but your risk factor with a small fish load is far less than it would be in a crowded tank. Detectable ammonia will seem slower than most of the number you hear. This is a good thing really. The facts are that your fish are producing ammonia (even if you test kit can't see it) and even trace amounts will start the cycle. I have done big tank cycles with very small fish loads, where there almost wasn't any visible ammonia or nitrite.
dave
 
amonia is at .25 now, just got buckets today for water change, just in time :D
doing a water change now, took 20 liter's out of a 96liter tank (25 gal) have my buckets are ready to put new water back in but i havent conditioned them
i have aqua plus conditioner the bottle says to use 2 capfuls per 70 liters(20 US gallon). so do i put nearly 3 cap fulls in cause my tank is over 70 liters or does it mean 2 capfulls if the amount of water in my buckets is 70 liters, so therefore put in have a cap full because ive only got 20 liters in my buckets, (thats a bit of a tounge twister :rant: )
do you get me?,

also the bucteks water is at around 50 degrees, whould i wait till it climbs to room temperature before putting it in?

thanks
jonny
 
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