Cat fish and other “cleaner” fish

[MikeO]

Sorry about 2 posts in a row.
How important is it to have Cat fish and algae eaters in a tank? Can I get away with out them and add a few more other fish instead. I am still under the impression that I will need them, is this true or is it a myth?

[christopher1260]

It all depends on many factors in the tank. I have a large tank with low light (~1wpg) with an arowana and a stingray. The stingray demands near perfect water parameters, so I filter heavily and do 30-50% water changes 3x a week. This tank has no algae eaters and is free of algae (I do scrape the glass with a credit card once a month or so). My other tank is a small planted aquarium with moderate lighting (~2wpg), DIY CO2, and fertilizer dosing. This tank would grow algae like crazy, but I have 4 Otocinclus catfish and an Amano shrimp that roam around and effectively graze all of the algae out of the tank. In summation, (wow, that sounds pompous!!), it depens on the nutrient content of your tank, the lighting, and the frequency of water changes. If you do decide on algae eaters, I highly recommend Otos. They are cute as a button and can eat a ton of algae. I hope this helped a little. If you post your tank parameters, we will be able to give you a little more help.

[MikeO]

Ok first how big doe Otos grow, I don't like large fish I want small ones

Right now, the take has no fish. It is a 20L tank (13" high x 13" wide x 30" long) I have an air pump and both a UG fillter, and an over flow filter. I have added plants now.

I would like 7 or more Red Eyed Tetras ( and if I need cat fish and algae eaters, will affect how many I will get)

[christopher1260]

Otos get to 1.5-2" and are awesome fish. They like to school up and I recommend getting 3 of them, so they are provided this schooling opportunity. You can check them out on the species profiles of this site.Otocinclus profile (http://www.aquariacentral.com/species/db.cgi?db=fresh&uid=default&ID=0103&view_records=1) I also recommed doing a search for "fishless cycle" since you don't have fish in the tank yet. Your fish will love you for it:)

[Joshuainthebox]

Check out the species profiles here on aquariacentral.com, it's at the top of the page. Click freshwater, then at the bottom "Custom Search." Type in "Otocinclus" and it should return three different types for you and they all appear to grow to two inches or less!

Josh
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[MikeO]

Christopher, I am doing the "fishless cycle" right now. I started it on Sunday, and I have dumped in about 1.5 - 2 months of fish food in, I am coming up soon to the first water change. I am think of just sucking water off the top instead of the bottom like I will be doing in the future, at this time I want to keep the extra food in the bottom of the tank so the Bacteria will get a chance to grow.

[OrionGirl]

As a short answer--no, you don't need any cleaner fish. In some tnaks, they can serve a valuable purpose by eating algae, but very few tanks produce enough to completely support the fish, meaning you have to feed them as well. And, many cleaner fish produce copious amounts of waste, meaning they reduce the number of other fish you can have. Also, many fish sold as cleaners are only good as juveniles, grow to be huge, are very aggressive, or some combination of these traits! Definitely not required additions for all tanks.

So--decide what other fish you want. Decide if you want to add plants. Figure out what your maintenance routine will be--and then see if there's a need for a cleaner fish. I've had several different setups that didn't include any algae eaters, and with proper maintenance, they have been pretty well clear of problems. I currently have a 5 gallon tank, with a few crypts and a large anubias, 3 cherry barbs, and 4-5 snails. Weekly water changes, a quick swipe at the sides with a scrubby pad, and the tank is good to go--no clouding, very little visible algae.

[MikeO]

The fish I would like, are just Red Eye Tetras (I am a simple person and just want a simple fish of one kind), and I would like to put as many as the tank can hold (comfortable for them, I read else where on this forum that tetras should be in schools of 13 or more, but I don’t know if that would be good for them, I was thinking along the lines of 7 but if I can get away with out the "cleaner fish" I think I could do 8 maybe 9) I have now added a bunch of live plants to half of the tank (part of it is lightly planted and another part of that section is more of a forest idea, wanted to give the fish as much variety in their living space as I could in just 30in by 13in by 13in), the other half is a rock layout, gravel and 4 large rocks. I am thinking the maintenance routine will basically be Saturdays I will do some water changes, and basic cleaning (filters, glass if I get algae, and the water will be used with a gravel vacuum on the side that does not have plants) I have an over flow filter made for a 30 Gal tank, and I have a UG filter that was labeled for a 29 gal tank (29in x 12in, in to short both in length and width for my tank, a 20L)
I am still debating on how much water I should change at a time. 10% 20% 50%?

[OrionGirl]

I definitely would not start out with a cleaner then. In a 20, 13 red eye's will be a bit crowded--I'd go with 9. They are happier in bigger groups, but will be just fine in a smaller group--the important thing is that they do indeed have a group.

The amount of water you'll want to change is hard to predict. With good growth on the plants, and appropriate feeding, 10% weekly will probably the minimum--you'll want to monitor nitrates to make sure it's not a limiting factor for the plants, and may need to supplement. So, this means nitrates can't be used to decide when to so a water change, and IMB, it's better to do water changes well above the minimum. I'd start with 20%, initially, and then you can always increase if it turns out to be needed.

[MikeO]

Thanks for the infomation, I will start with the 20% change weekly. and check the water daily to see what happens. And I am glad to hear that I can get the 9 RE's (does it show that I am in love with RE's?)

Also with the limiting factor for the plants what level of nitrates do I want? (I never had plants in my tanks when I was in the hobby before, so plants are a new varable for me)

[OrionGirl]

Check in the planted forum--there's a thread on dosing, and it will help you out. There really isn't a magic number--I try to keep my planted tanks above 5, but that's tough with happy plants. In a tank without plants, you focus on keeping the bacteria happy and trust they'll take care of the fish. With planted tanks, they become the focus--and they can be much finickier than bacteria!