Problems w/ fishless cycling - or where oh where did my little bacteria go

Well, I have been trying to fishless cycle my 72 gallon for what seems like forever - and still no Nitrites.

Now, I hit upon a couple areas which I believe caused some problems - which I will post for others edification. but beyond that, I am stumped.

my PH, kh, etc are all in the normal range. I seeded my tank (actually the sump) with some gravel and foam filter sponge from an existing 29 gallon tanks with a light bio load - as well as some plants - and even some Stress Zyme (I know the bacteria in a bottle products are questionable - but I figured it can't hurt).

I started the fishless cycle on 12/20 - adding Ammonia to 5ppm. I added a bit more ammonia on subsequent days for about a week to get to what I thought was back to 5ppm. then I stopped adding from around 12/27 thru 1/4. No nitrites at all.

My initial problems I discovered (or at least I surmise) were:

1. I ran my UV sterilizer for the first week. I think this nuked any good stuff floating around

2. I overdosed the Ammonia - I thought my test kit was reading 5ppm - but the color at the high end looks a lot alike - and I ultimately decided after the first day, with all the additions, I probably got up to 8 or 9ppm. This probably also inhibited the nitrites.

So on 1/4, I did a 50% water change and my Ammonia reading was a between 4ppm and 5ppm. I left it at that, added a few more plants, put in some "new" seeded gravel and filter foam from the 29 gallon, and added some more plants and Stress Zyme.

I have checked the Ammonia almost daily and I am still around the 4 to 5 ppm - so I have not added more.

But now 1/15 - after 11 days, STILL no traces of Nitrite.

The first 2 weeks, I think I can explain what the problem was. these last 2 - I am mystified. Can anyone offer any suggestions?

Thanks

Thanks for the input

Originally posted by OrionGirl
If you have plants, they are soaking up ammonia without producing nitrites.

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But if that were true, wouldn't my ammonia test readings be dropping? My ammonia level is holding steady. I guess I should say I don't have a ton of plants - so if they are soaking up some ammonia, it seems to be miniscule

Re: Re: Problems w/ fishless cycling - or where oh where did my little bacteria go

Thanks for the input

Originally posted by carpguy


Fishless isn't a good combination with planted. The light levels needed by the plants will produce algal blooms with the very high ammonia levels. Planted tanks cycle differently, as the plants compete with the bacteria for ammonia. Here is a good article on cycling planted. Its a not as dangerous version of the fishy.

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Thanks - good article there. But I guess I should have added this is not a heavily planted tank - with low light and no CO2 injection. It has a few low light plants (4 Java Ferns and 1 bolbitis to start on 12/20 - then added 10 small water sprites on 1/10). The lighting right now is a measly 40W (til my upgrade kit arrives). I have added a few doses of liquid fertilizer - but thats it.

Would it be better to remove all the plants (I guess I can temporarily throw them in my 29gallon). I thought I read a couple articles though that suggested planting before cycling - and that plants from an established tank are a source of good bacteria.

Originally posted by carpguy


The StressZyme is a dechlorinater, no? How much/regularly have you been adding it? See if it says anything about detoxifying ammonia -- it may be screwing up your Ammonia test. I use Amquel for a dechlorinater, and I know it will screw up the test kits. (Not exactly sure how it screws them up, false positives or what not).

The plants may have blown through the ammonia you gave them and the StressZyme is still giving you false readings. No ammonia for the bacteria = no nitrItes?

Just a guess, but those are the two things I'd look into.

HTH

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Stress Zyme is one of the bacteria in a bottle magic elixirs - LOL. It probably doesn't do anything except separate you from your money and make you feel like you are doing something It definitely doesn't detoxify ammonia.

I did check my dechlorinator that I used. Neither of them (I finished up an existing bottle of Kordon's NovAqua on about half the water - and used Genesis on the remainder) speak to detoxifying Ammonia. In fact, NovAqua specifically says it doesn't (they want you to also buy Amquel). Plus NovAqua "says" it doesn't effect water quality tests. I have used NovAqua for a couple of years - in my other tank and never had any false test results so I believe that.

As far as Genesis - this is my first time using it - but is only addresses Chlorine and Chloramine. I wonder if anyone else here uses Genesis as a decholrinator - and successfully fishless cycled a tank.

Thanks Jim

Originally posted by JSchmidt
I suspect that your innoculation didn't add much in the way of bacteria. The StressZyme is worthless... It wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility to be cycling a clean tank from scratch and to have zero nitrites after two weeks.

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I agree but I figured seeding the tank with some gravel and filter sponge from my 29 gallon (with an albeit light bioload) would add some bacteria. I have tossed the StressZyme (its all finished - LOL)


QUOTE]Originally posted by JSchmidt


What I would do:

1) Throw away the StressZyme.
2) Only check ammonia every 2nd or 3rd day.
3) Open a bottle of good chardonnay.
4) Relax, sip wine and anticipate the cool fish I'll buy.
5) Forget my initial errors and promise to never add anything to my tank without knowing exactly what's in it.
6) Come to all the great fish boards and vicarously enjoy others' fishes.


HTH,
Jim [/QUOTE]

1. Done
2. Yea, I have become frustrated so I am only checking every other day now - LOL
3. What about some Zinfandel instead
4. My problem is I have been anticipating those cool fish - I know which ones are in at my various LFS - but it pains me having to wait even longer to get them all - LOL
5. Ahhh - I knew the deal with the StressZyme - That was not a biggie
6. Yea - but it just ain't the same as enjoying your own

My main concern is if anything I have done (put a few plants in, added dechlorinator, Stress Zyme, etc) would inhibit the growth of the bacteria. From a few of the posts above, I see the plants could be competing for the Ammonia - but since the Ammonia test reading isn't really falling, not sure I have enough plants right now to really negatively affect my fishless cycling.

Originally posted by Tyler718
My ammonia started to decline, but is now back up and just ain't going back down at all & nitrItes are at 0. By the way my nitrAtes are at 10 ppm. I'm at a lost right now.

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tyler, if you figure out why your Ammonia is staying up, please let me know. Your case does seem odd - since if you have the Nitrates after a Nitrite spike, I would have assumed you are close to being fully cycled. but for ammonia to stay up is mystifying