placement of live rock to seed "base rock"

[Liquidcfour]

what are some good rules to follow on seeding "base rock"?
like placement of live rock to the placement of the base rock?

i think it's base rock or soemthing like that... it's the dead verson of live rock...

thanks...

-brandon

[OrionGirl]

Just put them in the tank together. If they are in conctact, everything will move over a bit faster, but the base will be colonized even if they are on opposite sides of the tank.

[Liquidcfour]

thanks for the info, that's kinda what i figgured...

-brandon

[kermit_criminal]

Just put them in the tank together. If they are in conctact, everything will move over a bit faster, but the base will be colonized even if they are on opposite sides of the tank.


what is the timeline for this to happen? i may have lost my live rock, which means it is most likely dead right now, but if i bring in a new live rock in the tank, how long before the dead rocks are seeded so to speak?

[Liquidcfour]

i think it's either 6 months or more...
probably depending on how much live rock is seeding the dead stuff or the base stuff...


-branodn

[FL Knifemaker]

I've found over the years that if I put small pieces of LR on the bottom, then place my larger pieces on top of that, it will keep everything from shifting/sinking/sagging ;) This is especially helpful if you plan on having gobies or other burrowing fishies. This requires putting the sand in last in small scoops and moving it around to fill in all the areas. One plus to this is that I scoop the sand from a bucket with water in it so it ends up being very dust free. I like the idea of having as much of the LR up off the substrate as possible. My feeling is it provides more surface area for the LR to perform it's function while creating a lot of cover for the tank inhabitants :idea2: :cool: I picked up about 8 small pieces of LR at my LFS for about $35. It allowed me to raise about 80lbs of LR off my substrate. It also makes a small amount of LR look like a lot more ;)

[Liquidcfour]

great info...
i'll keep it in mind after i grab another 30lbs of LR
thanks


-brandon

[TinaFishGirl]

My base rock became alive in less than six months. I did a honey comb set up. I placed the dead rock on the bottom live on top. _-_-_-_-_
Then to get coraline algea to speed up I had three really small rocks like half the size of a baseball and I scubbed it with a toothbrush over the dead rock. The kept my calcium high. Six months later you couldn't tell the base rock from the live.

[Liquidcfour]

how do u raise the calcium level?

-brandon

[kermit_criminal]

my lfs guy said it was best to wait for my amonia levels to drop before adding any more live rock... this is confliting with other information i've gotten from you guys here saying live rock is essential in cycling the tank itself. what could be the logic behind my lfs guy telling me to wait a bit before adding the live rock? he said anything currently living in/on the live rock would immediately die as soon as i put it in my tank, is this true? ...


isnt waiting for my ammonia levels to drop before putting it in defeating the purpose of buying live rock?

[Gealcath]

Its a proven fact most LFS dont know what they are really talking about, a LFS is after your money, the people here arent.

[Liquidcfour]

the way i take it, it is bad to add alot of LR at one time, the stuff on the live rock need the amonia to live or what not, and if u have too much there isnt enough to go around, which would kill the rest of the live rock... but that's how i take it, and it makes since...
if i'm wrong let me know... i'm trying to help, and trying to get help...

thanks
-brandon

[Gealcath]

The only thing that feeds on the Ammonia is Aerobic bacteria, and thats present with or without LR. You can add as much or as little LR as you want, the more you add the faster your aquarium will cycle (Ammonia is ALWAYS present in the water, its a natural product of organic life, so even though you can test and it wont show any present on the test, its always there)


Basically prolonged exposure to Ammonia will kill any organism (except the bacteria that fee don it) living on it, thats what cured LR essentially is, its already been through the death and decay process and anything that has survived is left on the rock. With enough LR you already have an established Aerobic bacteria colony to take care of all the Ammonia that is produced. The bacteria only multiply to match the current level being produced, so more = better, its better to add all the LR at once.

[Liquidcfour]

hmmm once again thanks for the info...
i wonder why the LFS tell you that a little then add more later?
then again it's the LFS right?

thanks
-brandon

[another newbe]

sorry about butting in, but i thourght you could only add uncured live rock during a cycle? if you added cured live rock during a cycle (with the high ammonia levels) wouldnt all the cool stuff (hitch hikers) die?? now im confused.

[Liquidcfour]

arnt we all confuse?

every time i answer someone i'm usualy wrong considering i'm a newbe to the saltwater world...

i'm using uncured live rock to cycle my tank... and on one peice was a snail, he is still living to this day 2 1/2 weeks into it... i aslo go a bunch of other critters that were on the live rock... and they are also alive still...

one thing that i have read on the forum, is not to put the dead shrimp in with the live rock, because they will put out an extremely high level of amonia and will kill the live rock and end up waisting ur money...

so i think by cycling with lr it dont create an extreme amount of amonia, and hitch hikers can deal with that amount...

once again if i'm right or wrong please correct me...

my two cents
-brandon

[Gealcath]

The trick is with enough LR you already have enough bacteria already established to handle any Ammonia spikes, hence you wil see little to nothing in terms of Ammonia on a test kit.

[another newbe]

oh, thanks gealcath, that makes sense. :idea2:

[TinaFishGirl]

Its a proven fact most LFS dont know what they are really talking about, a LFS is after your money, the people here arent.
Yes proven fact!! Except when you get someone that has been working in LPS for years and is WAY passionate about the SW hobby and loves to teach others by giving the correct info like myself!!!! SAVE THE FISHES!!!!
But yes it's best to do your own research and quiz the LFS on simple stuff. You'll know if they make up an answer to make a sell or just to sound smart go somewhere else, because they don't care about you OR the fishies!!!!


Okay now with what I think about your LR situation.
I don't remember what size tank you have, but you could go about it a couple of ways...................
You can't add a bunch of uncured with cured LR to your uncycled tank. You will have too big of a spike, and kill your LR and slow down your curing time- if not even killing your uncured rock.
You can add just a few pounds of LR to help the cycle along like for a 55 you can probably add 10 lbs and 50lbs of plain lava, and it will just speed the cycle up, but some of the stuff may not make it through the spikes, but it will not die all the way.
You can't add 25 lbs to a 55 because the bio won't keep up and it will probably all die when you spike, your tank will still cyle pretty quick though.
OR you can add all of your rock 50lbs or more 100 would garentee that your rocks bio will keep up with the die off load and your tank will cycle and you probably won't actually even be able to tell you even had much die off.
See why you are getting conflicting stories here?

;)

[Liquidcfour]

yup... thanks... :)
always great to have someone that knows what there talking about :)

thanks
-branodn

[TinaFishGirl]

How is everything going???
Keep us posted -K-

[kermit_criminal]

Yes proven fact!! Except when you get someone that has been working in LPS for years and is WAY passionate about the SW hobby and loves to teach others by giving the correct info like myself!!!! SAVE THE FISHES!!!!
But yes it's best to do your own research and quiz the LFS on simple stuff. You'll know if they make up an answer to make a sell or just to sound smart go somewhere else, because they don't care about you OR the fishies!!!!


Okay now with what I think about your LR situation.
I don't remember what size tank you have, but you could go about it a couple of ways...................
You can't add a bunch of uncured with cured LR to your uncycled tank. You will have too big of a spike, and kill your LR and slow down your curing time- if not even killing your uncured rock.You can add just a few pounds of LR to help the cycle along like for a 55 you can probably add 10 lbs and 50lbs of plain lava, and it will just speed the cycle up, but some of the stuff may not make it through the spikes, but it will not die all the way.
You can't add 25 lbs to a 55 because the bio won't keep up and it will probably all die when you spike, your tank will still cyle pretty quick though.
OR you can add all of your rock 50lbs or more 100 would garentee that your rocks bio will keep up with the die off load and your tank will cycle and you probably won't actually even be able to tell you even had much die off.
See why you are getting conflicting stories here?

;)


why is there too big of a spike when adding cured and uncured liverock together at the same time? i did just that the other day, did i just waste my money?

[TinaFishGirl]

How much did you add?? Ho much are you into your cycle?? Have you had your Amm spike yet??

[kermit_criminal]

How much did you add?? Ho much are you into your cycle?? Have you had your Amm spike yet??


about a week in this particular tank, yes i had the ammo spike, killed off everything inside, including baby umbrellas on the live rock :sad


i baught cured liverock from one LFS about 2 days after adding uncured liverock(with lots of dead stuff on it) prior to that. did my rocks die? its a 75 gallon tank. also added bio-bacteria stuff to help speed the process