Thinking of starting own LFS!

[cichlid_guy]

Hi, I'm thinking of starting my own fish store. I wanted to come here and get advice from the people how know the most about fish stores, YOU the hobbiest!

I would like to know "from everyone" what you "like" or "dislike" about your local fish store. If there is anything that you think/or wish for in a fish store.

One day i was thinking "Why am i running all over tring to get what i need, and most of the time not liking the places i went to."
So I started to think about opening my own store!

I would have all the things i wanted or liked from "the small" LFS around here.
Selection!! being the first on my mind!
There is a LFS about a hour away that i like to go to from time to time. Its becouse they have a "NICE" selection of fish.
about 20 - 25 cichlid tanks, and about the same in the smaller community fish. the only think wrong with the place is its "trashy"
unorginized store - tanks on floor anywhere, nothing put neatly where it should be, and the building was very run down, "barn like".
I heard my friends telling me the same thing.
BUT they went for the fish selection!

Also I was tired of seeing mislabeled tanks, workers ether not knowing or giving wrong information, and prices sky high!
Going here for crickets, there for feeders, and another place for frozen food, just becouse one guy was cheap on this, then the other on that.

I have some good ideas also I hope to run by everyone and see what you think.

"Feeder Cups"
basicly a plastic cup/tub with logo on it. When you buy the cup, and bring it in the next time, you get a discount on the feeders. Crickets $1 dozen, w/cup .75 cent a dozen!
same as feeder guppies, rosies, goldfish, etc...

"Discount Cards"
kind of like you get from "martins" or other stores.
a plastic card that you swipe and get a discount. A member card.
i'm thinking like 10% of store, and gets you "Special" member only sales. kind of like petsmart.
(a doller a gallon tanks. ie 75gal = $75)

"drawings for tank set-ups"
I'm thinking like having on the end of the receite a spot that you can fill out and drop off in a box, then like every six months or year, pull a name!

I'm not a buisness person, but I know the more people you get in the store, the more likly you are to get people to buy!
(if only 1 out of 10 people buy, then 100 people a week is better then 10 a week!)
So I'm thinking of having a nice "show tank" something for people to come see, then "maybe" buy some fish food, or something.

There is all this stuff running in my head! :)
would like to know what you think! Advice!

Thanks!
Scottie
Cichlid_guy

[tyler]

i'll work for you

[Tightdog1]

lots of tanks, no tanks with ich, big "personal" tanks, good selection, good advice and knowledgable fish staff.

by the way where do u live?

[Roland]

Your ideas sound pretty good already, and I totaly agree about misleading or false labeling.

What about rather than just the displaying name of a particular fish, you include information on the fishes requirments with regards to PH, Carbonate Hardness, Temp range, where in the tank it swims, and diet. obvouslythis information would have to be short and to the point but I recon it wouldnt take up too much space. And once you have a label made up laminate and keep it for future use.

You could also colour code these information labels say
Blue - community
Yellow community with care
Red - Solitary

And you could have an * or something to indicate its suitable for a beginer

Also, you should keep a good selection of odd ball fish to keep the hardened enthusiast happy.

Finally, when you go global, I can run your UK outlets if you want!

[Sting]

I think you're idea is great and can work out really well! Here's the problems with my LFS.

Well, every fish I have bought from there has died except my Otto. They keep their water quality so perfect, that when I bring mine home, with even just a slight adjustment, they die (I'm guessing) that's why I ALWAYS go to PetSmart and I've NEVER lost a fish! So I don't know what you can do about that one.

It's maintenence is slowly fading. Everytime I go the tanks look less attractive. And even the tanks are only for fish who will be gone in the day three days, they should at least be appealing for buyers. Try to get all dead fish out of the tanks immediately! One thing I do not like about PetSmart is that when they see the dead fish in the tank they say "Oh, we'll get him tonight at cleanup" and it's just not attractive. Gives bad image.

Here are some good ideas and examples to follow:

The charts about the fish's status sounds great! It will really help the buyers learn what fish will do wel in their tank! But a full chart on every tank might be a problem since you will be getting different fish in everytime. You may want to pull biographies off the internet (and maybe even off AC) and print them up, to make binders so buyers can look through and decide which fish would best suit their tank! You should probably have more than one though, because I can already tell you will be having lots of customers!

Second, showtanks are a must! Even though they may be a lot of maintenece and expensive- who cares it's your fish store! Literally you can do anything, what you want to do is impress your buyers. You want them to look at the tank and say "Wow, I want mine to be like that!" So then they buy all your fish and plants! Have it high on CO2 and lots of plants, and make sure to include some of the nicest/most beautisul fish you have to reall amaze the buyers. A saltwater tank can be nice as well, even though you might not be familiar with saltwater yet, they are a must if you will be selling salt water (which I recommend). My LFS has 4 showtanks and one Nano Reef.

Have a good selection of plants that are not fading, melting, or dying! LOL! Sounds terrible, but my LFS can't keep plants more than a couple days without signs of unhealthiness, whereas PetSmart keeps beautiful, growing plants.

Keep a selection of fish books as well, decorations, keep anything and everything you have ever needed in setting up any of your tanks! Hey, you may even sell yeast and sugar for DIY CO2! Be user friendly, try to work with the customers. One thing I liked about my LFS was how the guy would talk to me, recommending me this fish for this reason, or telling me about this plant. He had other workers to help other customers anyway.

Also, you can work trades with your customers, and they can bring in fish and you can buy them, ect...

All your ideas are really good! I would choose your LFS over mine anyday! Good luck! If I remember more suggestions I'll reply again!

[Cichlid Woman]

Great idea!! The more lfs out there run by true hobbyists, the better.

Suggestion: do a mini-market survey before you go ahead. If you're planning on getting a start-up business loan from a local bank, they'll require that info anyway in your business plan. What's your competition like in that area? If all you've got is corporate stuff like Petco and PetSmart, the area is probably hungry for your new lfs!

Also be aware that starting up a business means you'll have to deal with both stuff you enjoy and stuff you don't. When I started my business, for example, I hated doing the bookkeeping and marketing for it. The fun duties go right along with the un-fun.

Check your local Small Business Administration office--they'll help you tons with all the stuff you need to get started.

Having said all that, I can say ... go for it!! Working for myself in my own business was one of the best things I ever did, for lots and lots of reasons. Doing it in an endeavor where you've already got a passion can be heaven on earth, although you'll work your **** off :D. Keep us posted!

-- Pat

[ascension101vr2]

I want to start out by saying my statement will be a little off topic and is more of a statement of advice/ suggestion and I mean no disrespect by it.

I agree with everything that has been said here by everyone else. They have pretty much summed up everything I have problems with in the LFS. I do have one suggestion, and that would have to do with the business side (and you may have already done this). Try to get into a tech school or a local college and take two classes, a basic business class, and business law. These two classes may help you quite a bit. Once again no disrespect intended.

-shannon

[NJ Devils Fan]

Make sure you have a wide variety of everything, like all kinds of filters in all sizes, tons of plants, tons of fish in many tanks. Don't pile the fish in the tanks. Also, as already said, once a fish dies, take is out immediatly and maybe check the water because when I see a dead fish at my LFS, I don't get a fish from that tank.

Also as stated, you must have excellent customer service people who know what they are talking about.

Don't put big fish in little tanks. It makes me so mad to see like 10 iridescent sharks in like a 10g tank.

[lotsoffish]

If you are really serious about this I would like to talk to you. I could give you some good info. I have a lfs and have been in the fish business since 1986 so I must be doing something right! I have 1400 tanks running right now!

Pete

[Skittyfish]

Make sure you have enough help. I hate going to my LFS and having to wait an hour just to get a couple of fish or plants. They usually have only one person working at a time. The tanks get messy, the small animals need fed and cleaned. They took their showtanks out and took them home with them. So now no one knows what a beautiful tank looks like. They also have a very slim selection on meds and what they do have is very pricey. They only keep a few bags of each color of gravel, anything more and they order it for you (which I guess is cheaper for them). I have been waiting for two weeks for a couple of bags of flourite, now I wish I had ordered them online, I wouldv'e already had them.

So to sum it up, I guess service is number one, selection is number two.

Good luck.

[wetmanNY]

I think your local competition are the chain stores, not the other LFS. Have you been working in a fish store? On-site experience is a good teacher.

You can't compete with on-line services for hardware prices. You won't get a good enough wholesale price from the manufacturer with your smaller orders. The profits will come from maintenance service, not selling Jack Dempseys. Set up a show aquarium-- at the bank? in the mall? .

Get tight with all the outstanding private breeders within an hour's drive. Encourage them to get re-sale numbers so that you can pay them. Otherwise it's barter.They have stuff and in quality that the distributor doesn't. "Tank-raised" is a selling-point. Ditto plants.

Be a dependable source for blackworms, brine shrimp. Sell starter kits/instructions for vinegar eels and microworms.

Make sure that you always have some fish that are unusual. People will always get their neon tetras cheaper at PetCo.

Get a good window together. Put an awning up so the window is in shade. The aquarium in the window needs to be a showstopper. Consider blacking out the rest of the window. People should want to pick that aquarium up and take it home with them, just like that!

Get a big tower-type fluidized bed sand filter (capital expense) and set it up where everyone sees it working. Your water should be brilliant, or why shouldn't they be at Petland Discounts?

Develop knowledgeable staff. You need a full-time partner. And a part-time accountant.

A New York warning: everyone who eats and cooks dreams sometime of opening a little restaurant.

[StevieM]

I have about 3 LFS within about a 30 minute drive from my house that range from ok to excellent. The store I tend to go to most often is the one that Lotsoffish owns , which was mentioned above. One of the finer points and a suggestion that I have based on his store is the empty tank selection. Given space requirements maybe you won't be able to have a large selection for a newbie or even advanced aquiarist to choose from. Do what you can given the space in your store. The thing I like about them is the variety of empty tanks they have to choose from...I walk around just imagining what I could do with that 44 gal corner tank, 125 gal show tank....the 65 gal with a matching stand and canopy would like nice in my living room , etc. Combine that with the show-stopping display tanks you will have showing the customers how it is done, will make them really want to go ahead and get that 72 gal bowfront instead of the 20 gal. long they thought about starting off with!!! GOOD LUCK TO YOU!

steve

[cichlid_guy]

This is GREAT feedback!
some great ideas! I like the tank tags. I'm sure than can be done without taking to much space up.

I have been talking to friends and others about partners, and advice with the busness side. I do plan on taking a few class, and
talking to start-ups about what to do and not to do.

so far it seems Selection! and Knowledgable staff!

I agree with all advice, and Love that everyone is thinking in the same direction! that means what i'm thinking will work!

As for where I live, I'm in SW Michigan, Benton Harbor/St Joe.
the only large pet chane around is Pets Plus, and they don't sell fish, just supplies.

there is a petsmart about a hour away.
as for what lfs are around me. there are two in the 20 - 30 min.
area. I will blow them out, with the selection.
One of the two is in St. joe, and it is a nice store, has a little more selection then most, but the price are HIGH!

As for show tanks! I'm glad everyone likes the idea/ thinks its a must! I mean, I'm sure i'll be at the store ALL the time. I want a nice tank to look at just like you would at home! I agree with the idea, EVERYTHING must be very clean! tanks should look like I injoy the fish, not just there to sell. It should be a small aquarium that sells fish! :) I also want to have space to have ALOT of tanks!
I do hate seeing tanks Packed full! I also hate tanks with mixed fish that you should be mixing! it might work for the short time they are in the tank, but is miss leading to people!

ONCE again! thanks you for all the feedback! I am collecting it all and do plan on using it!

Thank You!
Scottie
Cichlid_guy

[Stias']

Brainstorming is a good thing, it can only help you when you start the LFS.

1. Take a class as stated before AND ask other people you know how they have thier busness set up. I dont think you have to worry about anybody stealing your idea of a LFS so let them know what you are doing.

2. I am not sure you can be the "everything" store. By this I mean, you cant beat out the "feeder" store and the "plant" store and the "cricket" store ect. The stores you are gunning aginst might be the "loss leaders" on those peticular idems. They might sell at a loss just to get other busness. Sure crickets might be really cheap online but figure out your final cost after death rate and then paying someone to bag them up.
That said, of course, some places are just price gouging so a honist mark up will show acrost the board.

3. discount cards are a great idea, I would be down with that the most. You will lose a few people though who dont want to be on a list (mailing or otherwise) so keep the info needed for a card VERY simple, basically just name so they know you are not selling the list to someone else. If you do utilize the software that tracke indivudal purchaces and tracks trends, a name is suficent.

4. Feeder cups are a great idea also, it shows a devoted customer willing to make the effort to save a few bucks and shows they are loyal to the LFS. The drawback is does it really save any money to the LFS? If it does, go for it, if not, just use the card but advertize that if you buy a large quanity of feeders at your store they get a discount.

Just because you are not a busness man does not mean you dont know what it takes to be a busness man. The majority of busness men (women) in my town are not what I call busness men, they are just people in busness. There is a difference. As long as you can see from both sides (busness side and customer) you should be OK. Be awair though, most people judging you will be customers so tend to look from thier side 90% of the time.

HTH
Stias'

[MrArapaima]

24 HOURS OPEN:D

[Richer]

A few things to remember if you open a LFS. Do lots of research first. Ask people if they would support another LFS opening. In other words, see if there is a large demand for another LFS. Even if you setup a great shop, you won't get customers (or at least a lot of them) if there is no demand. The first couple of years is always the worst times for a store, you need to make sure you have the customer base to get you through it. If you survive the first couple of years, then you can really start to go out there and start kicking butt.

Some things to note if you open a store.
1.) Keep up with maintenance. There's a Big Al's 15 minutes away from my house. They have a the biggest collection of SW and FW fish I've ever seen. Initially, their tanks looked great. No dead fish, clear water, etc. Lately, they're water has been getting murky (in certain tanks), I've been seeing more dead fish, and overall appearance has declined.
2.) Don't skimp on the information. Give your customers all the information they need on keeping fish. (ie. The fish's general needs, behaviour, suggested tank size, etc.). Lots of information is always a good thing, it will cut down on fustrated customers.
3.) A competent staff. If you hire other people to do work for you, MAKE SURE they are competent. I've had to dealt with many incompetent people in this hobby. Let me tell you, some of them DO NOT belong in a fish store. There's this one store that I keep on going back to. Not because their prices are good, but because the people who run the store are competent.

Some things I would like to see in a store (may vary according to what the people want).
1.) Plants. Tons of plants. Tank after tank after tank full of plants. If there's one thing many LFS lack, its plants, good plant equipment, knowledgable people in regards to plants, good algae eaters (SAEs, American Flagfish, C. Japonica shrimp, etc.), and varity of plants.
2.) Tank equipement. Not sure if this would be feasible, unless you have a large starting budget. I would like to see tons of tank equipement, of almost every brand possible. Big Al's has done a great job in this respect. They practically have everything in front of you. When you look for a filter, your not look at 2 different kings, your look at 4, or 5, etc. etc.

HTH
-Richer

[Orbitorly]

So when did you win the lotto ? :D ;)

[PredatorFish]

I go in a lot of fish stores and come out disappointed. The tanks must be clean, no algea on the glass. You also need to have a big selection. Keep a lot of oddballs and catfish. Also organize your sale tanks into sections, all community fish in one area and so on. Also viquariums are getting popular so keep some of those little crabs, newts, and frogs on hand. I also like to see attractive sale tanks. I go in on LFS with some ver nice fish but the sale tanks have no gravel and only a clay pot in them. If you actually open up let me know. I am in SE michigan, maybe I would make the drive over to see your store. Also, go around looking at several successful LFS to get ideas. Good Luck.

[GEV83]

Ive always thought about making my own pet shop but figure the only way I could do that is if I win the lotto. But my idea was to have a nice selection of both common any rare fish. Also next to the fish that grow big have an adult like have the small tank with baby oscars and a tank near that one letting you know this is how big it gets. Discriptions would be good like one of the first posts but one thig forgotten is tank size. Less fish but better quality not less fish as not many kinds like less fish as in instead of the lfs has 20-30 oscars tossed in one tank have maybe ten nice ones not craming 30 plecos in one tank and another thing is they die and my lfs takes forever to pull them out ive even gone one day seeing a dead fish go the next day and seeing the same dead fish being eaten by its tank mates. Sell smaller plecos not the giant commons and gibbiceps which normally end up in small tanks. I use to have a lfs that was perfect took care of the fish and had the best qaulity you could get but now its all about money they have nice fish but knowhere as nice like they use to. But ive also seen this new petsmart and there fish were all dead and dieing diseased but the mad a big improvement and now there is no dead or dieing fish and there tanks are not overstocked. Theres lots more to be said but didnt read all previous posts and dont want to repeat something someone else might have said.

[irishspy]

Originally posted by cichlid_guy
I would like to know "from everyone" what you "like" or "dislike" about your local fish store. If there is anything that you think/or wish for in a fish store.



One thing I appreciate in my LFS are the "not for sale" signs they put up on some tanks. Generally, there will be an explanation: already bought and being held, new arrival under quarantine, under treatment for disease, &c. If the reason isn't listed, the store people will gladly tell you why. It's little things like that I appreciate.

--Anthony

[appaloosatb]

I've worked at two LFS's over the past two years, and the one I'm currently working at definately shines above all the rest in our area. Here's what I've noticed that makes it really work:

+ A huge selection. If possible, not just fish. A lot of people come in for hamsters, mice, etc and end up liking the show tanks so much that that idea for a tank starts in the back of their mind. Two months later, they're back buying their very fish tank.

+ Small animal-care labels for fish and everything else you carry. What we do is we have small business-card labels that are taped to the outside of the tanks. They include the name of the animal, the price, feeding info, adult size, minimum habitat size, and it's aggressiveness level.

+ Employee training. My LFS has required seminars quite frequently, and plenty of magazines and pamphlets on different animals in the break room that we're supposed to read during our lunch breaks. New employees spend one week shadowing employees in different sections (small animal, fish, and cat/dog) to learn the ropes so they have a basic working knowledge of everything before they're allowed to start sales. There is a 20% employee discount on everything but books - if an employee buys a book, they get a 50% discount.

+ Plenty of learning materials (ie books, pamphlets, care sheets, etc). Have your employees recommend a book with each animal or tank purchase. Include books in tank kits. Have a wide variety so there's plenty to choose from.

+ Cleanliness. Hire someone as the "animal husbandry person" to come in full-time and clean tanks and cages. Have employees run hourly checks for dead fish, even if you don't have very many (we had a total of 5 dead fish at work yesterday, but we still ran the hourly checks just in case). We call the fish check the "DF run" (Dead Fish run) so that customers don't know what we're talking about. It makes for a much better image. Sweep, vaccuum, and mop the floor every day - and don't get carpet, it doesn't work very well in a LFS. Rugs are fine, but carpet gets messy. Wipe the class of the fish tanks hourly with the DF run, and get sick livestock off the floor immediately. It helps to have three hospital tanks in back to treat different cases. If you have small animals, put an anti-bacterial spray next to all of the cages and require employees and customers to use it before handling any animal and again between animals if they're looking at multiple animals. This stops the spread of disease and keeps the animals healthy and clean.

+ Shoplifting. The 10-foot rule has worked very well to prevent this at our LFS. Each customer has an employee within 10 feet of them, but NOT shadowing them or bugging them. For instance, if someone is looking at hamsters I might be the next aisle over facing shelves or dusting. This also makes sure that there's always someone available when you need them and you don't have to go searching to find help.

+ Friendliness. Have your employees say hello to everyone that walks in the store. Even if I'm helping customers, I'll still say hi to people as they walk past. It gives the store a friendly, open atmosphere.

+ Lighting. Good lighting is a MUST. Dark pet stores look dirty and make people wonder if they have something they're trying to hide.

+ Overall appearance. Keep products dusted and faced, and have everything ordered in a common-sense way. Have an employee uniform so it's easy to tell who works there and find assistance. Require your employees to look their best - no holes, brush their hair or tie it back, etc. Have a dress code so everyone knows what's okay to wear to work and what's not. Have your employees wear khakis or black pants to work on Fridays, Saturdays, and Sundays (your busiest days) to help create a more professional atmosphere. Jeans are fine for week days. Send employees home to change if they don't comply with the dress code.

+ Cover all aspects of pet ownership. People who have multiple pets like to be able to get everything in one place. Carry a variety of cat/dog toys, collars, leashes, food, small animal food, toys, and treats, fish stuff, etc.

[kveeti]

I don't know if this is feasible, but what I would like at an LFS is also all the little things you have to hunt at hardware or other stores for. You can buy airline tubing by the foot at the LFS but not the larger tubing for gravel cleaners, or projects, etc. Also other DIY and cheaper stuff like eggcrate, pool sand, pipes, silicone, stump remover (for KN03), plastic needlepoint canvas, pure ammonia, etc. etc. After the initial setup stuff, I feel I buy most of my equipment at NON-fish related stores.

[auxout]

A good selection of gravel. I don't know if there is some feasability problems with keeping a selection of gravel. But out of 3 stores I went to they had 5lb bags priced way too high for epoxy coated colored stuff. Another place had only 1 or 2 types in 10lb bags. If they would've had the stuff I wanted I would have bought it that day. I don't know why they don't maybe it's space maybe they are afraid they won't sell it.

[JeffP]

I'd like to throw in some suggestions with the premise that the hobby is not the same as the business.

1. If you don't already, get a part-time job at a lfs (per Wetman's suggestion)

2. Get a partner (per Wetman's suggestion). However, I would find a partner that is NOT an avid fish keeper and has some retail experience if possible. They must be willing to equal your financial committment. Two partners with complimentary skills are better than two partners with similar skills and interests.

3. Develop a business plan. Your local Small Business Administration (SBA) office probably provides business training classes that can be helpful if your business experience is minimal. They will provide assistance in developing a business plan and structure it in a way that banks or other lending institutions want to see before issuing a business loan. BTW, this service is free. Even if you don't need startup capital, SBA advisors can identify potential stumbling blocks and overly optomistic assumptions.

4. Along the same lines, see if there is an office of the Service Corps of Retired Executives (SCORE) in your area. They are affiliated with SBA and can provide free consulting. They should be able to match you with an executive with retail experience. It's free.

4. Make sure your personal credit record is spotless. In today's market, banks do not part with their money easily for business loans. Since you do not have a business track record, your personal financial track record will be scrutinized with a magnifying glass. BTW, do not make optomistic projections in your business plans, banks are not optomistic.

5. Be prepared to invest a minimum of 20% (and probably much more) in the startup of your business. How long can you live without a salary?

6. Most of this thread has been geared towards your "product" with some retail strategies thrown in. Your products and services must match your business plan. For example, it might be nice to have plenty of staff and inventory to service customers. But every person you hire and every item you put into inventory effectively comes out of your paycheck and means that your daily break-even revenue must be higher. Owners get paid last after employees, suppliers, utility companies, building owner, etc.

7. Adding commercial tank service and cleaning might be a good idea because the main thing your selling is labor with minimal equipment costs (after the initial startup). This assumes that you can charge enough per hour to make it worth your time. The downside is that this could distract from your retail operations if you're not careful. Remember, every hour invested in a tank cleaning business is an hour not invested in directly supporting your retail business.

8. Get an accountant (per Wetman's suggestion). Interview several before you select one. Select an accountant that spends most of his/her time with small business. Do not use a personal tax accountant. Submit your business plan with financial projections to your accountant for review. It is worth the $$ to get his/her opinion.

Good luck and be thorough in your research and planning.:)

[OrionGirl]

A few additional things...

Don't just have a tag. Take a picture of the fish/plant/coral, and use that on your tag. This way, you eliminate the confusion when species are mixed in a tank. Also, if the fish changes from a juvenile stage to an adult stage (many SW fish look different as the age), have a picture of both in addition to size/activity requirements. Digital cameras are cheap, and this would totally pay for itself in saving time.

Provide some place for customers to sit and read. Provide books they can read for free (not the ones you want to sell. Same book, different 'house' copy), or can check out. Or, provide a $.05 copier so they can get the pages they want and go home to read.

Setup a 'members only' time to review new stock. Allow members to get the first chance to buy, during a specific time line. If new shipments come in on Tuesdays at 5 but don't go up for sale until Wednesday, let members come in from 5-7 Tuesday evening.

Have a bulletin board for pics of customers tanks. Ask customers with nice tanks if they'd be willing to mentor someone. Or, if they would volunteer to come in and just answer questions sometime. You could give them a discount in exchange for their pitching in.

I agree with the need for great show tanks, but don't put stuff in the show tank that you don't have for sale, or can get in easily. It annoys me to no end to see a fantastic fish in a display tank, and find out that it's NEVER available for sale.

I agree that you won't be able to compete with the online stores. Don't try. For a price, be willing to accept shipments of live fish for your customers. For example, they order 40 lbs of liverock, have it shipped to you. They pay you $10 to sign for the package and hold it in the back until they come pick it up. You don't open the package unless instructed, but at least the customer doesn't have to take off from work, or worry about something sitting frozen/melting on their front step. For fish, you could agree to open the box, float the abg, ect, but for an additional charge with limited liability.

Sponsor 'classes'. Kind of like Home Depot...Show people how to setup a tank. How to use test kits accurately. How to catch a fish without chasing it for 20 minutes. How to disassemble powerheads for cleaning. Simple stuff, but not fun to try and guess how it's done when you're new to the hobby (and might not know it should be done).

Shop the competition. Maybe not where you are, but out here, if it's within 2 hours, it's likely I will drive there once a month or once every other month--if the place is worth it. Prices will make or break where I spend my money, if all else is equal. For exampe, locally the amano shrimp cost $7. One hour away, they are $2.50. I can make the drive, buy 10 shrimp, put gas in my car and buy lunch, and still save money versus getting them in town. Of course I will do that!

[GobyGuy5]

One thing I feel would be helpful is that you are sure to give the common AND species name! This could be very helpful in avoiding any confusion over what a fish is, etc.

Also a winning Idea one of my LFS has is a "discount club", you charge people say a dollar when you first open to join the club, get their name, address, and phone # and (for example) always get fish half off on mondays, and a dozen free feeders per day, etc. Then send them a post card every month with "discount club" specials for the month, such as 25% off of Gravel, or half price on this power filter. Gets me in their store all the time, and I would imagine, that It would help build a customer base.

In any case GOOD LUCK!!!!!!!!!!:D

P.S. If you were able to special order rare fish (such as certain cichlids) for the customer, it would be a nice touch

[cichlid_guy]

This is great! everyones ideas and advice is what i wanted.
I have a new idea, a friend came up with.

Being able to help start-up newbies.
Having avalible cycled water, and maybe like a bag with gravel from a astablised tank. so the new person dosen't have to wait
for the tank to cycle.
I could have a tank in the back, running with some kind of fish.
with the new tank set up i could offer, ether at a fee or free with the new tank, water from my cycled tank, and i could make up bags that would have gravel from the tank.
I'm sure that would cut the cycle time way down.

I injoy all the ideas, the start-up advice is we needed!
My wife and I are going to start finding out about starting.

I will let everyone know how things are going!

scottie

[redpaulhus]

Bob Fenner has some good info on running a LFS or other aquatic business at www.wetwebmedia.com

Back when I was a LFS manager, Fancy Publications (Dog Fancy, Cat Fancy, Aquarium Fish Magazine, etc) had a "trade" magazine that came out quarterly or annually. I think it was called "Pet Supplies Marketing" ( I don't know if its still around.) It had good articles on where the industry was headed, trends, etc, but the most valuable part was a very long listing of Wholesalers and Manufacterers... very useful to have the phone number for Marineland or Aquarium Pharm handy when a customer has a question, or know a dozen wholesalers when somebody just walked in looking for a giant acrylic tank. Definitely worth looking for...

I've heard alot of good suggestions. JeffP and WetmanNY had some great suggestions, as did others. When I got into the biz, I expected it to be just like the hobby... its not.

You will have people insisting that they CAN keep 12 koi in a 10g tank - No matter what you say.

You will have people saying they don't want a betta for that 2 gal tank, they want goldfish because they don't want just one fish.

You will have people tell you that Fred down the street sold them 6 Oscars for thier 29g tank, even though you said it was too small. Then come back to you when the fish get sick, get free advice, and go buy more fish (and meds) from Fred...

You will have people come in for your advice, listen to you for 20 minutes (while other customers are waiting) and then tell you they'll buy the filter at walmart because its cheaper there. (probably below your cost for the filter!)

Oh, and all those things will happen on a busy Saturday or Sunday. While parents drop their kids off for you to "babysit" while they shop in the furniture store next door. Or a lady props her todler on top of 6 ft tall cat furniture while trying to return stolen goods for cash with no reciept.

You will have toothless men (or women) with evil halitosis tell you that thier fish have been living a long time without waterchanges and they're not about to start on your say so - but they want you to replace that $20 fish they bought last month.

Oh, you'll also find out how hard it is to get good help. Are you going to be able to pay them $8 - $10 /hour and stay competative ? Or are you going to get young kids for $7 who just want to earn pizza money, and don't really care if a fish with ich gets sold or not ?

A really good Employee purchase program might be a great incentive (let employees get livestock at cost, and a healthy discount on dry goods).

Also, something I haven't heard mentioned - where are you planning on making your money ?
Livestock or dry goods ?

The chain I worked for spend major bucks on an acrylic tank system from California Aquatics (Seaclear) with large wet/drys, dual uv's, inline carbon, the works. Very nice, looked way better than a bunch of 10g tanks with sponge filters (what all the other stores around us had...) and allegedly cost about $30,000 for that store. (over 60 feet long, 3 tier tanks) Then about six months into operation, the owners had one of the store managers audit the chains livestock sales. What he discovered was that we were just barely breaking even - our live fish sales, minus our live fish wholesale cost, just about paid for our 2 full time and 1 part time fish dept people (in our store anyways). Never mind electricity, water, and paying off the capitol investment in the system.

So in theory we were selling fish in order to sell fish supplies - fish supplies were the highest margin item in the store (about 10% higher than dog and cat items). That meant our salepeople had to make sure they were diligent in adding on good extras - don't sell a tang without selling seaweed sheets. Don't sell mbuna without cichlid pellets. Sell frozen food with clownfish, etc. And we constantly had people asking if we would price match mail order, or the price of the guy down the street (who was a loss leader for Hagen - he sold Aquaclear filters at about cost...)

Decide ahead of time where you plan on making the money, and if you are going to be able to afford the high tech route with your tanks.... most of the non-chain stores that I see still in biz today are the stores who stayed low-tech low-cost when the big chains rolled into town, with old 10g tanks and sponge filters, along with product lines heavily favoring "Ginger" and other bargain price "independant LFS only" brands.

[ThirdEyE]

show tanks and variety are a MUST

- show tanks - a nice show tank or two will always make someone getting a new tank wanna go with larger tank. my local LFS had a great planted show tank but i always knew there was no way i could turn a tank into that piece of art. Then they upgraded to a large rap around tank with waterfalls and fish that held the plants, and i told myself "i need some of those!".

show tanks will definetly increase business.

- variety - if someone goes into your store for the first time, maybe buys a few fish. when they come back and see the same old stuff, they're gonna be reluctant to buy fish and end up just getting the necessities like feeders or meds.

variety = more customers your likely to satisfy.

otherwise i agree with everything stated above

[Botch]

Have a look at this article: So you want to own a fish store, by Barry Nab Dahl, on Randy Carey's site at http://www.characin.com/carey/articles/

It's well worth the read.

[ChicoRaton]

lol, yes 24 hour fishmart. because you never know when someone might need some new plants at 2 AM.

[flamingoncold]

Have fish that no one else really has. I personally buy wierd fish that you dont really see a lot[oddball fish].

[jamjarjames]

theres two ways you can go with a business you either go towards the cost side where you make sure you sell things for the lowest price possible. Then theres the differentiation side where you aim to sell things of the highest quality. I assume that you will want to go with the later because not only will you have less competition but you being a fish lover you won't want to sell c#*p. so know your market, know whos competeting with you and don't try to compete with those who go with cost (usually petsmart etc) Also pick a good supplier for products. the worse thing is having a supply who delivers late and damaged it costs you lots of money and reputation, you wouldn't like it if you went somwhere who had damged goods and goods that are always out of stock.

i would just like to reitterate KNOW YOUR MARKET! chose your suppliers accordingly

[got_nailed]

I haven’t read all the post yet. Someone might have brought this up.

I would start up good fish club; I think this could lead into a good fish store. The reason I say this is the only FW fish clubs are 2 hours from where I’m at. I think that if you got about 50 people together to help with the opening of the store it could help out a lot. There’s a lot of work trying to get 50 tanks set up in a 2 weeks.

[farli]

What i would like to see in my LFS is lower prices...Petsmart and Petco may have "lower" prices, but horrible quality fish...one of the 2 nearer LFS has good quality fish, but for a black molly, they want $4.79! I mean honestly! Medication, ornaments, plants and such of better quality...

[ChicoRaton]

ditto on low price high quality:D my lfs is good about that. they have the best stock of anybody around here, and most inexpensive fish like a lot of tetras are $0.75-$1.25 each. any plant is $2.50 each which works out well for most plants, not os well for others, but ends up being cheaper than ordering them online. Their prices on everything else are horrible though. The wany $9 for an aquaclear filter sponge, $3.50 at big als. I never went down the fish aisle again.

Other thigns I can think of,
-Be enthusiastic about special orders... well at least offer to place them for customers.

-have one or two REALLY nice display tanks, maybe a planted and a reef tank.

-Keep some oddballs nobody else has

It's all been covered already, but that I'd throw in my redundant $0.02

[MyShrimpDied]

Be very picky about your staff, you should set up cameras and monitor them.

If they start barking at a customer or give them some fals info, they get shocked with a taser.

~ MyShrimpDied

[Rushdude]

I don't know if this was mentioned before but you should also test people's water for free. A complete test of ph, alkalinity, hardness, ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates for free. It helps people with new aquariums a lot. I remember when I first started the hobby and i didn't even know you had to test the water.

[primarycolorman]

I'm going to suggest something a wee-bit different.

Koi.

I've found at least two local chinese resturants who'd be interested in a 500+ gallon tank containing a few koi. I'd imagine several of the higher-end houses around would also. Find a local glass supplier & a pond builder who can install them.. then maintain / stock the tank/ponds for a set fee, plus permission to put a standard business card down at the gravel line.

This lets you get your name in the area, and some revenue started without having a physical location. Branch out to other fish types, this will allow you to sort out suppliers.

If you've survived up to this point, go for the shop and still keep the other side of the business going. It might make things a bit easier if you've already got a established service business, and are just trying to add to it rather than going cold turkey.

[Blinky]

I wish you luck! What a wonderful idea, someone who loves the hobby setting up a store. A refreshing change from all those employees out there who don't know a dying fish from a healthy one.
My advice is this:

1. keep your fish healthy. Quarantine new stock for at least a week before selling. If fish become sick, treat them immediately, and don't sell fish from that tank.

2. If you import wild fish (please don't, but if you must), please make sure they're not fish that will waste away in captivity. I was at a petstore today and saw two SW fish on their last legs, so skinny I didn't know how they could still be alive. I can't be sure, but I think that one was a species that only eats specialized organisms off coral, and it was living in a bare tank.

3. Decorate your tanks! Stores with rows and rows of bare glass tanks stuffed with fish are not only boring to look at but unhealthy for fish! By putting the proper substrate / hiding places in the tanks you are showing the customer not only that you are knowledgeable about the fish's needs, but also educating them as to how to house the fish once they get it home! When I bought my first pleco many years ago I didn't know they needed driftwood; they lived in a bare tank at the store!

4. You might consider setting up your display tanks with different filtration systems, so you can show your customers what they look like in place, and illustrate the advantages and strengths of each.

I applaud you for collecting ideas and doing your research, I have no doubt your store will be a success.

[QCppg]

I have about six LFS within 45 minutes drive and two chain stores with decent fish (Wal-Mart, whose fish are warranted for 90 days and decent quality but absolutely MUST be quarintened, and Meijer). I have been to five of the LFS and they are all high-quality in terms of merchendise, maintainence and for the most part selection (though they all have too many of the overcommon livebearer strains). My only qualms is the trememdous variation in the prices of supplies such as food and sea salt, which can vary anywhere from 120% to 300% above online prices. Then again the advantage of multiple sources is that you can shop around for the best price.

One thing that I like about LFS is that most of them around here have the FW tanks seprate from each other so an infection can't spread between tanks like wildfire. The two stores that I've been to that stock large amounts of SW lifestock both use common-filter systems. One had an enormous sump filter and protien skimmer operating in view of the consumer, and a wonderful semi-hexognal display tank. The staffs for the most part are attentive and seem to know their product.