Deciding On Equipment

[Criminal_Colt]

I thought I would start a thread dedicated to just equipment for my new tank. It will be 4ftx2ftx2ft, hold 120 gallons (500ltrs). It will house freshwater tropical fish.

I am lost as to what kind of filtration systems there are and what would best suit a tank that size. I have tried to research this myself but i really need help. For example I found a helpfull guide explaining various filter methods but it did not address the benefits of each nor give you any example on how to use it or set it up. If you have some links please post!

As far as I know I just need to work the wattage per gallon out and get a few submerged heaters.

I really need to get this worked out so I can start my no fish cycle up.

Thanks guys. :bowing:

Colt :D

[acefred]

Go with 2 or even 3 smaller canister filters (I use a Fluval 304 on my 45 gal so 3 of these would be great or 2 Fluval 404s or others here preach the RENA filstars for a bit more $$ or go big with a couple of Ehiems) for this tank, the only piece of advice I can give on filters is try and go a little more than they are reated for so my old Fluval 204 was supposed to be ok for my tank, but the meadia would clog quickly and the overall flow was never great (you know what they say "bigger is better") and I would say 2 proper sized (as per you say) heaters.

[Criminal_Colt]

Acefred,

What your suggesting is way out of my price range. So I now need to establish whether or not I can afford this hobby. Perhaps I have made a gross error and under estimated the costs involved.

So far people on these boards have been saying I need to be circulating my tank water 5 to 10 times per hour. So for a 500ltr tank that will be 2500 l/h to 5000 l/h. Is this correct!? I have this image of the water going round so fast my tank turns into a spa! You all have more experience than me so please fill me in.

On the Eheim website I checked on their recomendations. They recommend the "2217 Canister filter" which only has a filter circulation of 790l/h. However they say for a tank size up to 600ltrs. Are they really overdoing it then? I mean we would be talking thousands of liters per hour off the mark.

EDIT: I have noticed that canister filters rated for smaller tanks shuffle far more than the tanks volume in an hour whereas the canister filters rated for the larger tanks seem to shuffle only about 1.5x the tank volume. Is this simply the larger volume of water compensating for the filter? I mean, is this ok or are their ratings wrong.

Also the internal filters (hang on the side jobs) filter far far more up to about 10x the tanks volume.

Please tell me which is right. Sadly, I cannot afford more than $300 AUS on the entire tank setup. A filter like the 2217 is $250 AUS alone. So that would leave me buying the heater and thats it. I would probably take some more out of my next pay check in 2 weeks.

So can I run this tank on just a 2217? Also, how do these filters work? I'm guessing you have a pipe runing up a wall of the tank and water comes out of the bottom and in through the top, splashing on the waters surface. Is that right? Is that going to circulate my water? Would I be better off going to a LFS and getting an all inclusive deal than buying second hand?

I feel like my dreams have been crushed. :sad

Colt :D

[blueturq]

You don't exactly "need" these Eheim or Fluval or whatever canister filters.

Thought it depends on the fish you are keeping.

What do you mean by "freshwater tropical fish" ?

Are you talking about a community tank, or do you want cichlids or something?

If it's a general "bread and butter" community tank, you have A LOT of options in a 120 gallon aquarium! :bowing:

If that is the case, you can get an Aquaclear 500 filter (they are changing the aquaclear names now so you may get a deal, because of it :))


Hope this helps :)

[Harlock]

Hi Criminal_Colt. I posted some ideas in your previous thread. You can still get into the hobby, but perhaps a smaller tank is what is needed. The bigger the tank, the more expensive everything will be. Filtration is more expensive because you need so much more. Heating is more expensive because the volume of water is so much more. Lighting is more expensive because you need so much more. It goes on and on.

Perhaps if you looked into smaller tanks that were more in your price range? I know what I did when I was first looking into getting a tank up and running again; I made a spreadsheet. This way I was able to lay out all of the expenses to get the tank I wanted exactly how I wanted it. After that, I added things here and there (mostly due to the fact that I decided to go with a planted tank and changed my tank decorations from a pale rock to a darker rock and driftwood.)

At any rate, the spreadsheet will help you budget for everything and keep you from biting off more than you can chew. Originally, I was going to get a 55g, but went from that to a 37 gallon, then eventually bought the 29gallon because it offered the best deal and was of a size my wife and I could agree on without worrying if it would take up too much room. As an example, I attached the 29 gallon spreadsheet. Please note, it's not a true spreadsheet in that it calculates, I just set up a table in MS Word and went from there.

[ecvjohn]

If budget is a concern buy things a bit at a time, no need to rush.

My 150.00 "complete" package from walmart has cost me about 900.00 so far including deco, substrate,extra filter, better heater, test kit, fish and food.

If you have the tank and stand already, go get your filtration,heater and substrate. While the tank is cycling you can plan your deco and what kind of fish you would like.
Worry about the lighting and decoration later. Make sure you shop around if you can.

This hobby takes some patience in the beginning but the payoff is worth it.

[Criminal_Colt]

Well although getting a smaller tank is a very good idea I don't really want to. This tank is meant to be a centre peice so I would like 4ft. Also I have red repeatedly that larger tanks are easier to care for.

I have not yet made a purchase on this tank. What would you guys expect to pay on a 4x2x2 tank? Considering how much the pumps cost wouldnt a tank with equipment be very cheap?

Also you think just one Eheim canister filter would do the job ok? I was thinking I could get maybe two internal filters as these work out cheaper. Would that work?

I guess if the worst comes to the worst I will get a smaller tank.

Colt :D

[acefred]

Bigger tanks are easier to keep fish alive in not care for..............The water changes and vacuuming takes longer and the filter maintenance costs more. If I was you I would get 2 canister filters for that tank and stick with them (the maintenance for a canister is cheap and easy once purchased) one may be ok but more filtration will be better for the aquarium, buy one for now and keep your fish load low then when you get some more $$$ get another one. The best way to accomplish what you want; which from what I gather is to have a nice big tank for very little $$ is hard to happen. Buy pieces as you can afford them and a word of advice from a fairly new person here...............Don't scrimp on filters or heaters, if you are not planting the tank you will save some $$ on lights.

Get started now if you can with the basics and cycle the tank after a couple weeks invest more if you can.

[Criminal_Colt]

Thank you for your advice ace.

I have decided I will buy the tank, heaters (essential) and one Eheim Canister Filtration System (2217). At 790l/h how many fish could I expect to support. I will have gravel and only one small plant (I stress small). Any fish will have to be robust small starter type fish (still doing a fishless cycle).

Also what is included in with this equipment? I mean will it just be the canister and tubing or will it have fixtures to mount in the tank as well. Can you combine a canister filter with an underground filter? Like have the water inlet sucking through the substrate for double cleaning effectivness?

Also, what is a vacum? I assume you dont mean my Hoover!? :lol:

I just went to my LFS and asked if he could price this kind of setup and give me some advice. He asked if I have the tank and I said no. He then said he would be wasting his time explaining it to me! Wow! What a way to loose business. Thats the second pet shop I have ever dealt with in my life and both store managers have been *******s.

So I'll say again, thanks for your time and patience, it IS appreciated.

Colt :D

[acefred]

Don't use undergravel filters...........The Ehiem comes with everything you will need (includes starting media), if you don't know what a vacuum is I would do a lot more reading before buying anything (you have to change the water and vacuum the gravel at least every 2 weeks).

I can't answer your question about the fish.Hopefully someone else (who knows more than me) can/will.

Go to Petsmart online if you are in the US and price out you stuff (good prices) and then go into a petsmart store with the prices printed (they have to match it).......If you are in Canada look at a Petsmart store or Big Als (online or store) for products.

Before you spend any $$ do some more research and reading, I will tell you for less money you can similar quality filters than the Ehiem, I like my fluval 304 or you could look at a Rena.

Good luck.

[Criminal_Colt]

Thank you Ace.

I will forget about undergravel filters. I have just found some more LFS in my area (Sydney, Australia). Hopefully they are more helpfull. I heard some bad reviews about the fluval filters and nothing about Rena. I will do much more research on each.

As for water changes I am aware that the fish need new water every now and then. I had no idea you need to hoover the substrate though although it makes sence to me now. Do you just attach a hoover fitting to the canister filter line or does it need a seperate pump etc.

Off to my LFS.

Colt :D

EDIT: http://www.aquariumproducts.com.au/prod788.htm looking at that it is only $100 and is rated for a 600ltr tank. Would this be a bad purchase? They seem popular amoungst my LFS. I don't want to make a bad purchase and regret it later on.

[acefred]

This is what a gravel filter looks like you use it at the same time you change water (every 1-2 weeks)..........http://www.bigalsonline.ca/catalog/product.xml?product_id=19129&category_id=3347&pcid1=

No pump needed it is a syphon.............

That filter looks nice and may be great for you I have never heard of them before, but I'm new.............So again keep reading and researching.

[Harlock]

I don't know anything about the Aqua Plus line. They look a lot like the Eheims. 1500 litres per hour is around 397 gallons per hour. It could work well, but the price seems too good to believe, if that $109 is in Australian dollars. Also, I really like the idea of going for more filtration that a product claims it is rated for. It doesn;t hur the fish to overfilter and in fact, usually helps them. Also, see acefre'd comments above about clogging etc.

As for fish, it's really a matter of personal taste. I hate suggesting fish to anyone as everyone has different ideas of what a fish tank should look like, and how active it should be. One person's idea of an active tank may include aggression and fish who establish pecking orders quite rigidly, while other folks idea of active may be a school of neons swimming back and forth for a while. Check out the species profile linked above. Or, if you are interested in a community of FW fish, Elmer's Aquarium guide has some nice suggestions and can really help a beginner out. Here's the link (http://www.elmersaquarium.com/h701elmers_freshwater_handbook.htm). Good luck.

[marks69]

for changing water and vacuuming the bottom get yourself a python.it's the best $50 you'll ever spend.the cannisters are also on ebay.there's one just like the one you showed a link to on ebay for about 70.do a search on filters.
gl
mark

[Criminal_Colt]

Well, I'm back from my LFS. As it is Sunday here one was shut. I also couldnt find another it has probably shut down. So, the one I did find was very big which helps although it had a poor selection of freshwater fish (nice SW).

Anyway, he recommended an "Aqua Vital 1200". It was $220 but it was simply a rip off of the Eheim models. I would rather pay the extra $50 and get a real Eheim! So, the way I see it I will get a cheapo CF for the time being around $100. Then once I add a few fish and have more money I will get a real mans filter.

He also quoted me two Aqua Vital 300W heaters at $100 which again seems overpriced. What annoyed me most is that even though they say fully submersible the diagrams show they need to be mounted on the side (top out of water), not on the bottom of the tank. Can you get heaters that lie on the bottom substrate or even IN the substrate?

He also showed me what a vacum is. I now understand how usefull this item will be.

Thanks guys, looks like I can work this out properly now.

Colt :D

[Criminal_Colt]

How well would you guys rate Hydor Heaters and Filters?

EDIT: I have ordered the following.

Aqua Pro CF-1500 1500lph $109.00

Pro Aqua 300w * Special * $12.00

Hydor THEO 300w THEO 300w $69.00

Resun Digital Thermometer DT-01 $14.90

Sub-Total: $204.90 AUS

What do you guys think? As you can see the heating is not balanced. I have chosen one what I believe to be very good thermostat and one absolutely crap one. If the Pro Aqua fails and tries to cook my fish the Hydor can compensate. Nifty huh? Or cheap ***? :rolleyes:

The Aqua Pro has actually recieved good reviews here in Oz (I did some research) although their filter media has been criticised so I may swap it out.

The thermometer will beep to alarm me if the temp goes out of range. Another handy kinda thing...

Well I think I managed to keep withing budget. Now I need the hoover and substrate and test kits. If a miracle happens I will get that all into $100. If not, then not.

Now all that remains is to hide this top secret operation from my other half. :p (If anyone asks all this stuff was $100!)

Colt :D

[Harlock]

Congrats. Let us know how well that filter is doing after a while in the DIY and Products section. I'm interested in a review of it, personally. You can get gravel vacs for very cheap. You can also pick up a Python for a bit more and in my opinion, the Python is totally worth it. With a python, you don't have to cart around buckets; that's a big issue with a 120 gallon tank like yours. Substrate can be really cheap. Check out some home improvement type stores around Sydney. Any place that sells swimming pool equipment should have something called "Pool Filter Sand". It is usually cheap, around $5.00 US per 50 pounds, and it makes a pretty substrate. You can see how it looks by checking the link in my signature. You could get away with 4 fifty pound bags of the stuff in a 120. Just be sure to rinse the sand thoroughly before adding it to the tank.

To rinse the sand, I poured half a bag at a time into a 5 gallon bucket outside. I then let the hosepipe run in that bucket a while, until it was overflowing. This carried away a lot of the lighter dust. Then, using the hosepipe itself I would stir the sand up now and again. After doing that about 5 - 7 times, the sand was very clean. After that I brought it inside and with the tank on the stand, I scooped out the wet sand and started to put it in the tank. It's a little moer labor-intensive than gravel, but it's a hell of a lot cheaper than gravel as well. Plus, I love the look of it.

Also, for a testing kit, it usually ends up cheaper to buy a "master" test kit that has a bunch of test kits in one. If you want to compare, the necessary test kits are: Ammonia, NitrIte, NitrAte, pH. I also like the Phosphate, kH and gH since I have a planted tank.

Best of luck to you, Colt!

[Criminal_Colt]

The equipment just arrived. As mentioned previously about the filter the cotton wool is very thin. I will probably add some more. Right now it is like this...Cotton wool, thos white cylinder things with the hole in the middle of them, some carbon and then an empty compartment. What should I put in the empty compartment? Sponge? Where exactly will my bacteria grow?

Heaters look cool. Should all be ok.

Only thing was they bent my fish net in half so it would fit in the box.

Colt :D

[Harlock]

Sponges make excellent bio filters. The bacteria grows... everywhere, pretty much. Substrate, filter, decorations, etc.

[Criminal_Colt]

Thanks.

Just confirmed the fish tank and the person i spoke to was full of ****. They don't even stock 4x2x2 and their 4x12x16 are made of 5mm glass!

AAAARGH!

Colt :D