Sand Substrate with undergravel filter?

[Malachite]

First I would like to thank everyone for answering my questions so nicely.
Secondly my apologies for asking so many!

On with the question! My setup currently has small gravel over an undergravel filter. I would like to switch to a fine black sand substrate. Has anyone ever heard of anyone finding a way to use an undergravel filter with this type of substrate? I am guessing that there is no way to keep the sand from sucking through and up and out the power head.

Secondly is the undergravel type filter that important? I noticed many people's setup's appear to not use one.

Thanks

[acefred]

Undergravel filters are old school and are not something most want as they are a maintenance pain compared to any other filter type.............If you are going with sand you will want to go with a different filter (look at a canister).

[Malachite]

Undergravel filters are old school and are not something most want as they are a maintenance pain compared to any other filter type.............If you are going with sand you will want to go with a different filter (look at a canister).

:D Yup! Oldschool. That is me. My last tank before this was in the 80's. Amazing what has changed.

When I get the money I do want to switch to a canister filter. I am guessing from what I have seen and read that most canisters have enough power to provide their own simulated power head function? I like having a decent current flowing through the tank.

That would actually save me some power cords also. Currently I have two penguin powerheads and an emporer 400 filter.

So how does eliminating the undergravel filter affect the gravel cleaning and such? Do you need to vacuum any more often when not using undergravel filter?

[acefred]

I use my canister (fluval 304 ) and the current in the tank is great. Still need to vacuum every 1-2 weeks with water changes.

[RTR]

For certain applications, I still would not give up the use of undergravel filtration, but only in reverse flow mode.

Not having an undergravel does not change the need for vacuuming one way or the other, it still needs to be done often and well.

Fine sand is not suited for UG filtration, in either flow direction.

[elgrecoverde]

don't take this as professional advice... i just come up with hairbrain ideas now and then and every once in a while, they work.

i know that swimming pool filters USE sand as part of their filtration system, it might be possible to cross this method over to an aquarium.

this isn't an out of the box solution, but if there are any inventors out there it'd be neat to know if it was a viable solution.


and i've found undergravel filters to be very beneficial in highly planted aquariums, but otherwise not very neccessary

[sammydee]

Pool filters use a fluid sand bed. That would be impossible to replicate in an aquarium substrate

[daveedka]

There have been a couple folks try sand on UGF's that I know, and none successful. I am a firm believer in UGF, but if you want sand there are many other filter formats that would work better for you IMO. If I were to use sand, I would probably go with a cannister or two for bio-filtration and either an HOB or maybe an internal cannister for mechanical.
Dave

[RTR]

The pool filters I am most familiar with do not fluidize. They are mechanical filters, not biological filters.

[Malachite]

So has anyone seen a substrate that is bigger than sand so it could be used with an UGF but still very small? The gravel I have now is prob what they call pea gravel but I am not sure. It was the smallest thing the local Petsmart had. I would guess each piece is between 1/8" and 1/4". I have not been able to find anything online.

[Matak]

I use a fine & medium gravel in my reverse flow UGF. The fine gravel is about 1/16" or larger, and the medium gravel is about 3 times that size. Just big enough not to pass through the grid plate.

BTW, I am with RTR on the RFUGFs. I have had great success with mine.

[Malachite]

I use a fine & medium gravel in my reverse flow UGF. The fine gravel is about 1/16" or larger, and the medium gravel is about 3 times that size. Just big enough not to pass through the grid plate.

BTW, I am with RTR on the RFUGFs. I have had great success with mine.

Thanks. So where did you find your gravel? That sounds like a size I could deal with.

Is there anything special about a RFUGF or is it just a normal UGF with RF PH's?

[RTR]

They are prefiltered, so no mulm in the gravel or under the plates.

http://www.aquasource.org/CMS/modules.php?op=modload&name=Sections&file=index&req=viewarticle&artid=17

[Matak]

I work with decorative gravel, so that's where I get mine from. I tried to find some on google for you, but came up empty handed. It is an industrial filter gravel. I don't have any bags with me at home, so I can't give you the supplier, sorry.

[Matak]

Ok, try entering this word string on google: filter gravel -fish -aquarium mm
There are some suppliers that have the proper size media. You want gravel in the 2mm to 4mm size range.

[adamdwalker]

simple answer is no

[Malachite]

Ok, try entering this word string on google: filter gravel -fish -aquarium mm
There are some suppliers that have the proper size media. You want gravel in the 2mm to 4mm size range.


Thanks for all the help digging that up. I'll check it out and see what i can find.