pH and ammonia and hardness?

[moonbaby]

well my pH is at 7.8 and I want it at 7.0 (thats what my fish prefer). I added some stuff thats supposed to bring it to 7.0, but it only worked a little my alkalinity is really high but my hardness is "soft" on the test strip ( about the middle) Im not at home so I cant give you the measurements. Im keeping guppies, but something in the water is stressing them out. I've lost some fish because of this. Can anyone give me some advice to fix this? Ive been adding RO water at every water change for some time now, but the alkalinity wont budge. (the RO has a LOT less alkalinity, so I thought it would even out)
Is the water hardness the only thing that effects pH?

[RTR]

Water "hardness" or GH does not affect the pH. The other hardness, KH or alkalinity, controls the pH in unmodified water.

It is better to adapt your fish to unmodified water than to play with commercial buffers - which as you have found tend not to work or only work briefly. That is much harder on the fish than adapting to source water. Who told you guppies want neutral water? IME they prefer harder water, both GH and KH.

If you must mix with RO, it is better to mix outside the tank and then add. Constantly changing water parameters in the tank is not helping the fish at all.

[moonbaby]

well is what happend is that I origanally filled the tank with tap water and when I found out that RO would work better I used it in the water changes. When I looked up guppies online they said that they prefer 7.0-7.5, but thats ok, my water is naturaly hard in both areas. How do I adapt them? I float the baggy on the water (for temp) and then add a little water every 5 min. as the manual says (that came with the tank) what else? It seems to freak them out enough that they will get sick and die. And for some reason my tank became uncycled and I only have a few fish as it is. Please! HElp!
And the orignal measurments were GH 75ppm and KH 300 ppm. thanx

[RTR]

Well, your GH is not really hard, but the KH is through the roof. I've never had to deal with a KH that high. Guppies are fine at pH 7.8 or even higher. If they have been kept previously in soft neutral water, then adjustment to your water should have been done slowly. Guppies should be hardy fish - although many aquarium strains are not anymore. Do you know what the water was like at the breeder or LFS where you got them?

I suspect that it not the hard water that is the problem (guppies can live in BW if adapted slowly), but the upset to the nitrification process. Are you still running detectable ammonia and nitrite? You need to deal with that by water changes to get it down to non-hazardous levels until the colonies of bacteria can handle the bioload. What are the readings in the tank for ammonia and nitrite?

[kjd277]

Try using a couple of pieces of driftwood. Driftwood lowers the ph. This may help aid the stuff you are using now. Also try using vinegar, it's safe and also lowers the ph.

[Faramir]

I don't think there's any need to lower pH. Vinegar anyway is a weak acid - it doesn't dissociate much in water - so you'd have to add quite a lot to add significant levels of H+.

[moonbaby]

Well, my ammonia is like 5.0 ( I know, it super high) but I was hoping that the tank would cycle it, I've only got a pleco,(im taking it back to the lfs today) 3 baby guppies and 2 adult guppies. Petco wont tell me what their water is. how do I lower the KH? Oh, and the babies dont seem sick, just the adult guppies. So whats up with my fish?

[RTR]

You need to do repeated water changes to get the ammonia (and nitrite if it is detectable also) under control.

Ignore the KH. That is not the problem.

[moonbaby]

I made a 50% water change because it got even higher than 5.0. now it reads 3.0, but thats still too high for my pH and temp. (7.8 and 72 degrees F), or at least thats what my chart says. I got it out of a mardel Master Test Strip Kit. It says its still stressful and my fish dont look too happy. Should I preform another big water change or a series of small ones? Please help, you guys are the only ones who can help, and as always Ive searched the net for the answer,but couldnt find an answer for my particular situation.

[Kasakato]

The ammonia is 3ppm? Thats SUPER HIGH. As you know your tank has not cycled so do another big water change to get the ammonia lower. Then keep doing smaller water changes everyday after that untill you start to get nitrites. Let that get up to .5ppm-1ppm and then do more water changes, 1 small one a day. Keep doing this untill you have nitrates. This may take a while but you have to do it.

[moonbaby]

ya I figured that was high but I barly checked it and it dropped to 1ppm, so what now?

[flashman]

Any detectable ammonia is too high, how long have you been running this tank?

[moonbaby]

Im pretty sure its uncycled. At first, when I set it up, then I made a really pathetic attempt to cycle it. but I didnt know what I was doing so I just guessed it was done.It was a fishy cycle. Afterwards I dumped a whole load of fish in there and they all died. Thats when I understood that its poisonous to them. Your probably thinking right now that Im the dumbest blonde there ever has been and your probably right, but im a brunette! so Im hoping I can try and cycle it right now I've had it for 6mon. and Ive killed alot of fish :sad . I dont mean to . :sad . Anyways It dropped from 3ppm to 1ppm what now? whats the next step in cycling the tank?
oh, and my fish are guppies (thats the only thing Ive been trying to keep in there the whole time. better late then never,right?

[anonapersona]

Let's begin at the beginning, moonbaby.

First, when you change water, what do you add for water conditioner? Do you know if your local water has chlorine or chloramine? It is important to use the right stuff, for if you have chloramine and use stuff that only unlocks the chloramine but does not neutralize the ammonia it just adds the ammonia to the tank.

Next, how much are you feeding these fish? How many fish? How many times a day? Too much food is adding a lot to the load of ammonia in the tank, for a fish will eat anything it can and the undigested food just falls out the back end as more is shoveled in the front end. They say to feed as much as one fish eyeball per fish once per day. Are you overfeeding?

If you have been feeding too much, then there is a lot of poorly digested food that is in the gravel rotting away, this will add to the ammonia level in the tank. You'll need to gravel vac to remove that. Don't try to do it all in one day, it may take a few days to get it clean.

Next, look at your filter. The filter is the key to processing ammonia and it needs to be correctly sized and kept relatively clean. What sort of filter do you have? What size and what size is your tank? When was the last time you cleaned the filter? How exactly do you clean it?

Now, and maybe this should have been first, how many fish do you have and what size is this tank? Overcrowding will also make for too much ammonia in the tank.

[moonbaby]

OK, thank you so much for being so patient. I have a 10g tank with a pleco(I know he'll be too big as an adult, but I just want to keep him for like a year),2 adult female guppies and two baby guppies(also an invasion of little snails, but i didnt think they counted) . I've been feeding them a fingernail size of flake food twice a day, for the adults and a very small pinch of powder fish food for the babies.The tap water in this area is all natural, I live in a very small town and the water comes from a natural spring in a canyon nearby. They never put any clorine in the water,but I dont know if there is any choramine(or dissolved metals) in the water. Just for saftey I treat it with either a liquid stuff from lfs that treats for both or a powder that also puts the PH at 7.0 and removes ammonia (temparily). I tested the water for ammonia and there isnt any in it. My filter is the kind that hang over the back and water fall into the tank. It takes carbon filter cartridges that I change once a month. If it gets really dirty I like to wash it off in the sink, in between monthly changes. I have a gravel vac and i vac with every water change once a week. (or at least thats what I was doing) so what now?

[moonbaby]

I tested the water again today and Its thourgh the roof so Ill do a water change and gravel vac again. but what else?