Whats so good about common fish? [Archive]

JamisonBWolsh

11-30-2002, 2:53 PM

Hmm... no really... I would like to know. Why would poeple who are not newbies want to get common fish? Wouldnt you want someone see your tank and say how kewl is that? or "I seen that fish before when I was 5?

Fish like the neon tetras, rosy barbs, tiger bars, and the countless others that are SO EASY TO GET. Whats the need to get these types of fish? I would assume people would get the harder to get type fish instead? Yes, I have a redtail shark. One or two are ok. But to have a tank FULL of common fish? I dont see the point really.

My advice to people: spend a little more money and get good quality fish!

carfey

11-30-2002, 2:56 PM

"Common fish" are most often fairly easy to take care of and they are suitable for community tanks. They usually look pretty good too. It's mainly these good qualities that make them common fish.

There is nothing better about a hard to get fish than a common one. I don't see why other people having the same fish would make yours less enjoyable. I do understand the feeling of wanting to try something new and rare though. :)

vfrex

11-30-2002, 3:01 PM

Good "quality" fish? What exactly are you in the hobby for? You can't tell me the entire purpose of you being in the hobby is to get rare "items". If it is, why get fish? Collect stamps...they're much easier to keep alive.

Wouldnt you want someone see your tank and say how kewl is that?

Have you ever seen the tank at the Baltimore aquarium? There are no vastly rare fish. There are rummynose tetras or something, there are some discus, there are some cories, and some other things. Are any of them very rare? I'd probably say not. Does the tank draw attention? You bet. You dont' have to have the rarest fish in the world to make a cool tank. Just make it look "pretty".

Moreover, people are all in the hobby for different reasons. I started off last year with 2 platies in a 10 gallon tank. Now I have a 125 gallon tank with an oscar, jack dempsey, 3 silver dollars, and a pleco. I also have a 58 with a midas. None of these fish are rare. That doesn't mean they don't give me pleasure. In all reality, rarity of a fish is a relative thing. A fish that is rare in one area of a country, region, or even state might not be rare in other areas.

JamisonBWolsh

11-30-2002, 3:03 PM

The ease of taking care of fish, is not the same thing as a common fish. A Common fish is a fish that can be bought at any fish store pretty much. Also, tend to be less expensive. Common fish, I think, lowers the quality of the tank. Once you know how to take care of fish...why stick with the common fish?

morleyz

11-30-2002, 3:14 PM

Since when are any pets about having the "coolest" pet? I thought most people kept pets because they give them enjoyment. If you enjoy a tank full of guppies...that's great, enjoy them. If you have to spend big bucks on rare fish to enjoy yourself, then I guess that's your own problem.

I think another thing to keep in mind is that most people start off with something between a 10G and a 30G and that definitely limits your ability to keep that "kewl" arowana.

I personally like my all of my fish and they give me a lot of pleasure...and I can't think of any of them that are the least bit rare.

Kit Walker

11-30-2002, 3:32 PM

Well first of all I think it is a pretty stupid topic to start of with. The answers as to why a lot of beginners go for common fish are so obvious,
1. Availablility, many people don't have access to LFS that stock
exotic species. I'm lucky where I live there are is a lot of access
to rare species. I've seen posts where people have to drive
hours to find a LFS.
2. Price. How many young beginner aquarists can afford to go out
and buy a tank full of imported Paratilapia in Australia?
3. Knowledge. Many aquarists and LFS have greater knowledge
of common fish which they can pass on. However, with rare
species, one finds himself having to go and research to find
water parameters and breeding requirments. A lot of trouble
for the beginner. Sometimes literature is not even available.
4. Success. It is much easier to produce a successful community
of common fish because so many LFS and aquarist know like
the back of their hand which of the common species will live
happily together.

I have numerous tanks with some devoted to more exotic species. However whenever people come over, the fish they talk about and admire the most are the neon tetras in my community tank. And it is one of the most common fish of all.

cichlid

11-30-2002, 3:45 PM

Originally posted by JamisonBWolsh
Common fish, I think, lowers the quality of the tank.

lowers the quality of the tank??????? :rolleyes:

Argento13

11-30-2002, 4:03 PM

Fish snobs at Aquaria Central? I would have to reinforce the idea that if something is easy to get its most likely because it sells. Not much call for the hard to find ones or they would be easy to find.

JamisonBWolsh

11-30-2002, 4:42 PM

This is my Opinion. Is it Fact, no. There is nothing wrong with common fish at all. They can be very colorfull and have a nice attitude as well. My point is this. Once you understand the ideas behind fishkeeping, wouldnt you want to house more expensive, harder to keep fish? On top of that, wouldnt you want people who view your aquarium not even know the fish you have and say "wow, I never seen those fish before"? I would.

Here is a Vague comparison:

You can buy your clothes at KMART or at THE GAP. Sure, clothes at Kmart are wearable. No problem there. But would you want to be seen in clothes from Kmart? i wouldnt. I would like The Gap.
Same thing with my tank. Would I want a Common fish or something that is different and more exotic? Mine is the second choice. Am I a snob? Maybe. I just want the BEST for my tank. There is a vast difference between your common Oscar and a Blue frontosa.

other examples:

Cheap wine vs expensive wine
Fast food vs sit down restaurant
canned juice vs Fresh juice
Honda Vs BMW
VHS vs DVD

One is better then the other. Common fish Vs hard to get fish

kveeti

11-30-2002, 4:52 PM

Well, if you're doing things for other people - what they think - be it what you wear or what fish you keep, then there lies your problem.

I do things that make ME happy.

I've been keeping fish since 1975. Yes, I started with guppies. Yes, once I got more experience I got a slightly bigger tank and tried more challenging fish. And now, here I am back at guppies and zebra danios, etc. and I have never been happier about my tanks.

rjl420

11-30-2002, 4:52 PM

I don't see the point of this thread.

Can't people get the fish that THEY want to enjoy? I haven't kept neon tetras in over a DECADE, but I recently bought a dozen of them to add color to my tank. does that make my tank generic or common? no. does it make my other tanks special because I have monos, archers, puffers, gobies or bichirs? NO. I setup tanks that give me pleasure and keeps my fish happy/healthy.

and I will also wear clothes from k-mart. they are all made of a poly cotton blend after all... but I don't keep the tags on my nikes either... :rolleyes:

since when does more expensive = better? that is basically what all of your examples comes down to.

cacti

11-30-2002, 4:55 PM

Common fish have their place in home aquariums. Remember not everybody can even keep fish alive long at home. To have a tank with healthy looking fish no matter how common they are can be a beautiful natural site in the home. Some people may not be able to afford the more expensive, rarer type fish too. Also as someone mentioned many of the common fish are easier to care for, easier to aquire which is an advantage to many people. Some are in a position where they can spend more and may have more tallent in caring for fish and can buy the rarer and more expensive fish. Good for you.

To me the most important thing to achieve with an aquarium would be to have very healthy looking big specimens of whatever species you want to take care of in an environment where the mix of fish get along to a reaonable degree and to have a nice natural looking aquarium. People like different types of fish of different sizes. For an example take the cardinal tetra. For me this fish is pretty but I am not into small fish. I once visited someone with 3 cardinal tetras in a ten gallon tank and they looked so big and healthy that I was quite impressed with this aquarium. I had not seen healthier cardinals ever so he was giving them the perfect environment. His talent was impressive and exciting.

Sum-X

11-30-2002, 5:00 PM

Originally posted by JamisonBWolsh
This is my Opinion. Is it Fact, no. There is nothing wrong with common fish at all. They can be very colorfull and have a nice attitude as well. My point is this. Once you understand the ideas behind fishkeeping, wouldnt you want to house more expensive, harder to keep fish? On top of that, wouldnt you want people who view your aquarium not even know the fish you have and say "wow, I never seen those fish before"? I would.

it's the simple fact that, 'common' fish are the easiest to care for, are a good starter fish, and the fact that people can buy them at wal - mart. It takes a while to learn everything you need to know before going out and adding a $60.00 Discus in a 10 gallon... Some people don't know any better. if it were up to me, food stores would not sell fish... Especially Oscars...

Many people like common fish, and thats it, because you have to be entirely dedicated to your tank to have 'hard to find' fish...

Plus, it's the fact of money... People today are cheap, and want what they can get for less than a dollar... that's just the way it is bud... :rolleyes:

Cichlid Woman

11-30-2002, 5:04 PM

Strange thread.

How do you explain the obvious?! I think it depends totally on what you want, which varies for many of us.

-- Pat

Blue goldfish

11-30-2002, 5:11 PM

In a way i can see what your saying. I'll just pick on the goldfish part.
I have a plain ol (6-7in) goldfish named Aoi in a 20gal with a gorgeous (5-6in) Sarasa comet (red, white). Personally, they have more personality than any other fish i've met. Yeah of course you can get them just about anywhere, but the fish i have are real treats to have. I intend on moving Aoi into a larger tank and getting some weather loaches and other oddball fish. Unlike most people, i tend to pick out the real oddballs or the one's other people don't have. I myself don't see anything wrong with neon tetras, but i like a challenge and something that sticks out. Now newbies, i say go get em cuz they are easy to take care of and give you a peek into the fish world. When your ready, bite off a bigger piece, or further explore the fish you already have like trying to breed them. Or in betta sense, try developing ur own strain.
Personally i agree with most of what you are saying except when it comes to (most) goldfish. Sorry i sometimes don't make sense.:D

crenicichla

11-30-2002, 5:25 PM

different people perfer different fish. That is a hands down statement, theres not much you can put at that to make it change. Realize it, and Deal with it instead of starting these threads that are begging for a flame war.

Just my .02

keely

11-30-2002, 5:44 PM

It sounds like people don't make enough fuss over your rare fish and it pisses you off ;) Just kidding. But I noticed you flipped out a bit when somebody mentioned your albino tinfoils were available at Walmart. Wouldn't you still love them if it's true?

Whether something is common or rare may be your primary criteria, but you're confused if you think everyone uses the same criteria. Common or rare may not enter into it for a lot of people.

I'm one of those simple-minded people who gets a fish because:

I think it's beautiful/interesting/has personality.
It suits the kind of tank I want.
It stays a manageable size.
I can afford it.
I fall in love with its little fish eyes!
It matches the drapes ;)

Rare fish don't have any edge over common fish for people like me. I almost thought this post was a troll. Well, maybe it is... :)

JamisonBWolsh

11-30-2002, 5:58 PM

No troll Here. Just wanted to know why people spent their time buying "common" fish. Most of my fish are hard to get fish including those Albino tinfoils. I did not buy the reg tinfoils because of that reason. When people see my tanks, I want them to say "Wow, thats an amazing tank! Fish i never seen before". Yes, you can have a nice tank with common fish. But will that person tell their friends about it? Doubtfull. Would they tell their friends if they saw something they never seen before and it trully amazed them? Most likely. Would IT inspire them? Yes.
Would the common fish inspire them? NO WAY!

Slappy*McFish

11-30-2002, 6:00 PM

I like neons:)
Besides, if everyone got the "hard to get", unique fish, wouldnt that make them "common"?...hmmm

RTR

11-30-2002, 6:02 PM

Well, as an old fogey who has been keeping fish significantly longer than most folk on this board have been alive, and who has had multiple tanks for most of the period, the question is valid but the answers may not be those wanted by the original poster.

This is not a race to see who can get the coolest or newest or most expensive. If you want to play those games, then clothes, cars, houses, golf clubs, and art are the areas you might find more challenging.

These are pets and creatures which are in themselves interesting and which may be beautiful. Yes, I do tend to have several tanks of oldballs, some quite expensive vis-a-vis "common" LFS fish, other not at all. But I have them because they interest me - they may be a species of a genus or fanily I like but have never seen before, or just a fish that has that have proven their worth for years. One of those tanks is the one I see when I glance up from this computer. It is only a 29, heavily landscaped entirely with species of the genus Anubias, and the fish are a school of green-eyed Rasboras. Just a single school of small small fish, gliding around the tank. Not expensive(although the plants would be), not rare, just mind-blowingly beautiful and serene. Similarly the only tank in the living room is a 65 witha school of Rasbora heteromorpha, well landscaped to show off these beauties - which are both common and inexpensive, but I'd bet this tank is better looking and more impressive than 99% of the tanks of the folk on this forum. It is also well-maintained, healthy, and an asset in my life . This is not about rarity, or expense - it is about quality, and health, and interest, and than rarely seen word, beauty.

All JME, & JMHO

Sum-X

11-30-2002, 6:07 PM

Originally posted by JamisonBWolsh
When people see my tanks, I want them to say "Wow, thats an amazing tank! Fish i never seen before". !

Then prepare to spend a lot of money... :rolleyes:

So what types of fish do you own Jamison? Inspiring minds would like to know...:rolleyes:

Fishiebusiness

11-30-2002, 6:26 PM

Ohhh booo, this post sucks. My tank is full of common fish oh no, i still like it a helluva lot more than any snob's tank.

JamisonBWolsh

11-30-2002, 6:31 PM

RTR= VERY well done! You answered my question! I dont think I could have wanted a better answer and I appreciate your response.
I have 3 tanks and been in fishkeeping for 1 year (my father had a 55 gallon tank all my life with long living fish). I wanted to know what the goal of fishkeeping is, besides the enjoyment of keeping them. The Goal is not to breed the unbreedable, or to nake a strain so perfect that its the best of the best. Its Just creating an environment that accomplishes what nature has intended.

RTR= I would love for my tank to become what your must be :)

TheMightyQueenPixie

11-30-2002, 6:31 PM

It really is too bad that you are so concerned with what others think..If it wasn't for the "common" fish, I never would of gotten into this hobby 20 some odd years ago...I doubt my mother would of bought a 6 year old a 300 dollar fish. Some of the more common varieties are still my favorities namely Guppies ,Platy's and goldfish. This is one of my "common fish" that is always commented on by my friends and visitors...Even if he wasn't popular, I wouldn't care...I enjoy watching him, and it gives me great pleasure to see him grow from a tiny 99 cent goldfish, that I bought at Walmart ;)
http://tmqp.tripod.ca/bigmike1.jpg

JamisonBWolsh

11-30-2002, 6:33 PM

I was never saying my tank is better then anyone else's, just wanted to know and RTR answered me. BY you saying that your tank is better then "some snobs" aka mine... That could mean that your jeolous? Dont make accusations that you cant back up.

Fishiebusiness

11-30-2002, 6:33 PM

Originally posted by JamisonBWolsh

other examples:

Cheap wine vs expensive wine
Fast food vs sit down restaurant
canned juice vs Fresh juice
Honda Vs BMW
VHS vs DVD

One is better then the other. Common fish Vs hard to get fish

What's wrong with fast food or canned juice, or a honda? They all have their advantages over the other.

btw, use than

Fishiebusiness

11-30-2002, 6:37 PM

Originally posted by JamisonBWolsh
I was never saying my tank is better then anyone else's, just wanted to know and RTR answered me. BY you saying that your tank is better then "some snobs" aka mine... That could mean that your jeolous? Dont make accusations that you cant back up.

You said:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by JamisonBWolsh
Common fish, I think, lowers the quality of the tank.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Does that not mean my tank is of lower quality than yours, which is full of apparently uncommon fish? I am saying that i dont care about what negative opinions others may have about fish i keep, and thus like whats me and mine the most.

TheMightyQueenPixie

11-30-2002, 7:12 PM

Here's a thought...What if every one took your advice and kept uncommon/exotic species...Would they still be rare???? :confused:

JamisonBWolsh

11-30-2002, 7:20 PM

Another good point. At one point or another "the common" fish was hard to get, exotic, and expensive. We have come to a point where most of the FW fish that has been discovered is in the aquarium trade in one form or another. Im sure, the more exotic fish will be bred easier and become less expensive and be refered to as "common" this will take MANY MANY YEARS to accomplish and many fish that are exotic cannot be mass produced. Since there is not that many new fish entering the fish trade, we are "making" are new fish: AKA flowerhorns and glow in the dark fish. Is this good or bad? Who knows.. But a 60 gallon tank full of Glow in the Dark fish must look REALLY KEWL!

vfrex

11-30-2002, 7:29 PM

Aequidens Rivulatus is considered a rare fish. A long time ago, it was somewhat common (or at least more so than it is today). Like I said, it is now considered a rare fish. So why is it that the green terror is no longer being sold?

TheMightyQueenPixie

11-30-2002, 7:33 PM

Originally posted by JamisonBWolsh
Im sure, the more exotic fish will be bred easier and become less expensive and be refered to as "common" this will take MANY MANY YEARS to accomplish and many fish that are exotic cannot be mass produced.

Ever heard of "Dolly the sheep?"..If they can clone mammals, fish would be a walk in the park.

Cichlid Woman

11-30-2002, 7:41 PM

You folks are amazing. Some very, very thoughtful commentary going on here. I am impressed.

Couple of things:

Jamison: Thank you for making me really think. Something bothered me about the examples you gave (K-Mart vs. the Gap, etc.). Those examples are all (nonliving) quality-of-life things. The fish we're discussing ARE life. That makes the difference ... I haven't entirely got it figured out yet, but therein lies the answer to your question. I'm still working on it ... and yes, I agree, RTR stated it masterfully.

Re: inspiration. Kribensis are common fish, right? I submit that anyone watching a pair of mated kribs herding their fry around the tank and guarding the nest will be inspired. I was. That's what got me into this as a serious hobbyist, and I still shoot for my favorite fishie dream: a successful tank of breeding Blue Rams. Sigh. Something to hope for ... and work for--and, in an area where the tap water comes out 7.6 pH, believe me, it's plenty challenging!!

Again, thank you for the thought-provoking post. And the answers! Boy, we sure all love our fish, don't we. It goes back to that life thing ...

-- Pat

wetmanNY

11-30-2002, 7:47 PM

Even my Farlowella is the "common" one... sigh

As soon as a rare fish can be bred in captivity, its rarity starts to slide (thank goodness). People who collect one of each of several exotic Loricariid cats are much less interesting than the person who has six of one kind in a big tank and is trying to make them comfortable enough to breed. Chasing after "rare" imports may have a negative effect on the remaining population of species that are already under pressure.

It's interesting to have a captive population of an Aphyosemion subspecies that's now extinct in West Africa. Interesting to breed them and mail the eggs to Aphyosemion fans. Some of those killifish are as beautiful and rare as you could ask.

It's not interesting to have eight or ten mixed Aphyosemions bought at fancy prices, their names forgotten, and now all thrown together in a large tank.

endeess, a poster here several years ago, (but not recently) is specializing in breeding unusual Farlowella species, in dark tannic water filled with bogwood and twiggy debris. Very interesting...

If you're concerned with rarities, imagine that French banker opening a shipping can that had come from Manaus, in 1935, and laying eyes for the first time ...on Neon Tetras! What a rush, eh!

Sum-X

11-30-2002, 8:12 PM

Originally posted by JamisonBWolsh
? Dont make accusations that you cant back up.

Dude, shut up while you're ahead... Everyone that has posted is against you... Talk about backing it up... :rolleyes:

Serrateeth_2002

11-30-2002, 8:22 PM

From all other post i've seen,most rare fish has one thing in common,price,hard to breed and tank requirements.They are rare in the first place maybe because of location or they are not so profilic in the wild,every other people has his or her own preference,other than that,i prefer rare fish,although i got none.

JamisonBWolsh

11-30-2002, 8:22 PM

I am not going to give that negative comment the dignity of a response. from panzer-ganza

keely

11-30-2002, 8:23 PM

You said, "When people see my tanks, I want them to say "Wow, thats an amazing tank! Fish i never seen before". Yes, you can have a nice tank with common fish. But will that person tell their friends about it? Doubtfull. Would they tell their friends if they saw something they never seen before and it trully amazed them?"

Your interest in rare fish seems mainly about impressing other people. Maybe you've just been having trouble understanding that not everybody has the same need to impress.... or if they do, that they prefer to impress by something they create or do, rather than what they own.

Anyway, if the replies have illuminated anything for you, great ;)

Sum-X

11-30-2002, 8:25 PM

Or, maybe he's lonely and has no friends.....:D:D:D Doubtful though..... :p

Fishiebusiness

11-30-2002, 8:35 PM

Originally posted by keely

Your interest in rare fish seems mainly about impressing other people. Maybe you've just been having trouble understanding that not everybody has the same need to impress.... or if they do, that they prefer to impress by something they create or do, rather than what they own.

EXACTLY, RIGHT ON

Sum-X

11-30-2002, 8:42 PM

I agree

crenicichla

11-30-2002, 8:46 PM

JamisonBWolsh, What do you consider to be a "rare" fish?

Serrateeth_2002

11-30-2002, 8:56 PM

Probably how fast it empties his pockets:D

JamisonBWolsh

11-30-2002, 8:57 PM

I said any fish that is not common. Zebra pleco, Golden Nugget, Blue frontosa, anything from the syd. catfish family., many of the Lank tang cichlids..Too many to mention...

BUT...

Any fish that cant be found at your normal everyday LFS, Walmart, and Petco, petsmart, big als, you get the picture.

PS. probably any fish that serratooth doesnt own..He owns all the common ones.. :)

Kidding.,..

Serrateeth_2002

11-30-2002, 8:59 PM

That reminds me,what about the fishes that is common in the aquarium but rare in the wild?Is it considered rare or common?

Sum-X

11-30-2002, 9:01 PM

Originally posted by JamisonBWolsh

Any fish that cant be found at your normal everyday LFS,

There are a lot of rare fish at my LFS... Looks like you just dont search enough:rolleyes:

goldfish freak

11-30-2002, 9:13 PM

In comment to wanting to impress. Different things impress different people. A person that is impressed when they look at a 16 inch long common goldfish may not bat an eye at zebra pleco. I know that I was far more impressed when I saw a large goldfish for the first time then when I saw a violet goby.

Serrateeth_2002

11-30-2002, 9:21 PM

People are impressed when they see a giant Sturgeon or a huge arapaima,they sell arapaimas here but exclusively at farms,like what goldfish_freak said,different people different taste,i get impressed by large or huge,if there is an discoloured arapaima and a school of perfect cardinals,i would see the arapaima with eyes wide open and the cardinals with my back(didn't notice)

crenicichla

11-30-2002, 9:46 PM

Zebra pleco, Golden Nugget, Blue frontosa, anything from the syd. catfish family., many of the Lank tang cichlids..Too many to mention...

umm........ those arent rare.....

things like Beani, Crenicichla Atabapo, Lenticulata, the list goes on of RARE fish.

i can get the fish you mentioned at my local fish store.

Serrateeth_2002

11-30-2002, 9:58 PM

http://www.sfogs.withinbudget.net/ghostpix/mermaid3.jpgThis is a rare fish,notice the head.

JamisonBWolsh

11-30-2002, 10:03 PM

Im not refering to RARE as Only a few in the wild. Im talking about rare as in hard to get, expensive..... You will find those fish at a LFS rarely, expensive. They usually dont have many of them and may carry only 1 or 2 untill sold. Then wouldnt have another one for a few months.....hard to get.

RARE as in almost extinct or endangered. FISHKEEPERS shouldnt have them. They belong in a scientific institute or musuem where they can be bred and propogate the species.

Serrateeth_2002

11-30-2002, 10:06 PM

Like Altum Angelfishes?There is a number of definitions for rare.

crenicichla

11-30-2002, 10:38 PM

Originally posted by JamisonBWolsh
Im not refering to RARE as Only a few in the wild. Im talking about rare as in hard to get, expensive..... You will find those fish at a LFS rarely, expensive. They usually dont have many of them and may carry only 1 or 2 untill sold. Then wouldnt have another one for a few months.....hard to get.

RARE as in almost extinct or endangered. FISHKEEPERS shouldnt have them. They belong in a scientific institute or musuem where they can be bred and propogate the species.

Now, you are making yourself look stupid. you going to tell me fishkeepers shouldnt have Zebra Plecos? LOL!

slipknottin

11-30-2002, 10:53 PM

1. to someone who hasent kept fish very long, there are many species that would seem "interesting" or "new" to them. If your trying to impress diehard aquarium lovers, then your definition of "rare" changes.

2. what about behavior of fish? i could have 1 large rare fish that doesnt move around and hovers in one spot. would this be more exciting to someone, or having the two "common" oscars that are 12" and defending their young?

3. do you need to replace the fish in your tank every couple years because those fish you bought and everyone has seen arent "rare" anymore?

4. seems you would only need rare fish if you were trying to compete or prove something to other fishkeepers. Personally id rather have a fairly simple common setup that makes me happy.

5. fish are all individuals and even the most common fish might still have some interesting little quirks.

and PS..... people doing the flaiming (you know who you are) need to chill out.

JamisonBWolsh

11-30-2002, 10:54 PM

No!!! Zebra plecos are Rare as in hard to get...Not nature rare....where its endangered. any endangered fish should not be kept by the fish hobbyist. So, who is the stupid one? Read it more clearly before name calling.

slipknottin

11-30-2002, 10:56 PM

Originally posted by JamisonBWolsh
any endangered fish should not be kept by the fish hobbyist.

what if their captive bred and have absolutly nothing to do with the wild population?

crenicichla

11-30-2002, 11:02 PM

Originally posted by JamisonBWolsh
No!!! Zebra plecos are Rare as in hard to get...Not nature rare....where its endangered. any endangered fish should not be kept by the fish hobbyist. So, who is the stupid one? Read it more clearly before name calling.

thats the thing, there not endangered OR rare.

goldfish freak

11-30-2002, 11:05 PM

Everyone that is bashing needs to relax and respect that people have different opinions and views on the same thing. There is no need to tear apart someone's post.

Mattimeo

11-30-2002, 11:09 PM

zebra plecos are everywhere here...

also, if you don't like common fish, then why do you like tinfoil barbs?

Endangered fish SHOULD be encouraged inthe hobby as captive breeding programs can successfully rehabilitate wild populations. Crenicichla and I are supporting the breeding of the many paretroplus sp. (particularly nourissatti) which are in dire state in the wild.

I'm interested to know, what fish do you keep?

RTR

11-30-2002, 11:12 PM

Well, I do have six tanks of adult Synodontids (three species) - I don't usually show those to visitors. Only a specialist would be interested. And I have an undescribed and non-L#'d gold spotted and streaked pleco. Does that count? Want to know where it came from? Superpets - in with a mixed tank of plecos. They knew it was quite different, so really jacked up the price - I think to almost $10. :D

When I had Frontosas in one of the big tanks, and Tiger Barbs and Clown Loaches in the other, guess which one visitors noticed and admired the most? Yup, Tigers and Clowns. Know what? I agreed with them.

It is not what you keep as much as how you keep it. I have never managed a tank I though was anywhere near as impressive as one of Amano's "plains" or "mountain tops" with only a few species of plants, 'rare' and 'exotic' rummynose Tetras, marsh shrimp, and otos.

But each to their own - so long as they can keep the fish healthy and learn something about them.

JamisonBWolsh

11-30-2002, 11:16 PM

Why do I LIke tinfoils. well sentimental i Guess. I grew up all my life with them. But remember.. Mine are not the regulars ones. MIne are albinos. which are much harder to come by...

Is zebra plecos everywhere? really??? at prices that range at 50.00 (and thats in Los angeles, where prices on fish are really low) I would consider that hard to get..rare in the MARKETPLACE.
If your LFS sells a ton of them and low prices....well...then you must live in the Twillight zone??? Because these guys cost $$$

Serrateeth_2002

11-30-2002, 11:22 PM

Loaction,location,location,they sell tinfoils here cheap.

crenicichla

11-30-2002, 11:26 PM

Originally posted by JamisonBWolsh
Why do I LIke tinfoils. well sentimental i Guess. I grew up all my life with them. But remember.. Mine are not the regulars ones. MIne are albinos. which are much harder to come by...

Is zebra plecos everywhere? really??? at prices that range at 50.00 (and thats in Los angeles, where prices on fish are really low) I would consider that hard to get..rare in the MARKETPLACE.
If your LFS sells a ton of them and low prices....well...then you must live in the Twillight zone??? Because these guys cost $$$

actually me and mattimeo aquire all of our fish from exporters, and our lfs's. trust me WE KNOW rarefish. Mojo knows first hand i am a conisseur of rare fish.

something like a albino tigrinus is rare. nothing you have listed is remotely rare in this hobby.

Mattimeo

11-30-2002, 11:26 PM

yes, they are not rare fish. Rare but not endangered fish are more along the lines of:

serrasalmus brandtii
hemichromis fasciatus
nandopsis ramsdeni
nandopsis mento
tomocichla sieboldii
goslinea platynema
brachyplatystoma vaillanti/flavicans
ageneiosus vittatus
uaru fernandyepezi (can't remember exact spelling)
amphilphus saggitae
ossubtus xinguensis
crenicichla lenticulata
crenicichla cf. dorsocellata
crenicichla tigrina
hydrocynus goliath (the true goliath, not vittatus, forkalli, or brevis)
hemichromis frempongi
amphilophus zaliosus
amphilophus hogaboomorus
nandopsis haitiensis
tomocichla tuba
nandopsis beani
merodontotus tigrinus
pseudoplatystoma corsucans

I could go on forever....

Fishiebusiness

11-30-2002, 11:33 PM

So you keep some albino tinfoils? What else do you keep? Can we see some pictures of your setups/rarefish?

crenicichla

11-30-2002, 11:35 PM

a picture is worth a 1000 words. :D

Serrateeth_2002

11-30-2002, 11:38 PM

How many words does a memory worth?:D

JamisonBWolsh

11-30-2002, 11:40 PM

I think you are misunderstaning me. I am not talking about rare as in endangered. I started this discussion to ask why people keep "common fish" and the question was answered by rtr and a few other very well. I was talking about hard to come by fish like the zebra pleco. Where it is possible to get them at a local LFS but difficult too. These I term as "rare" as in hard to get. I know there are a THOUSAND species of fish where you have to special order them or travel to some country and catch them yourself, like the Land catfish for example.

so here comes the quotes someone must bring up...but please no more.. Im not interested in fighting. A zebra pleco is hard to get. Yes, I see them on occasion throughout the 10+ quality LFS here in the san fernando valley. I never see them constantly and only on rare occasions. IN fact only 2 lfs I noticed carried them once in a while.

Serrateeth: yes. tinfoils are everywhere and is on the most common list. HOWEVER. ALBINOS tinfoils are not.

Mattimeo

11-30-2002, 11:43 PM

in my entire life, I've never been to an lfs that doesn't carry albino tinfoils, and that includes little trashy places like petsmart, wal-mart, etc. etc.

JamisonBWolsh

11-30-2002, 11:52 PM

Hate to call you a liar......but you been on my case the whole night. I believe that your saying this out of harshness. Fine. the only way i can believe you is send me those pics. I frankly dont believe you. The quality of my LFS are tenfold as Los angeles is one of the centerpoints of getting tropical fish. NOT ONTARIO. Why would a LFS here (never in walmart or petco) hardly ever sell these guys? I mean.. I have seen Reg tinfoils. BUT only on a few occasions do I see albino tinfoils. I hear a fib coming from ontario . Also, on the net, its easy to ORDEr reg tinfoils..never albinos.. geeeeee I wonder why?

Serrateeth_2002

11-30-2002, 11:52 PM

That depends on distribution,flowerhorns are much prized here and tinfoils are just another ugly fish,no offense JamisonBWolsh,tinfoils are not popular here,including albinos.

Fishiebusiness

11-30-2002, 11:54 PM

Come on JBW, do you have any pics or not?

Mattimeo

11-30-2002, 11:55 PM

umm... if you're in california, you should have tinfoils, albino or not, stacked all over you. Cali has a good selection of fish, whether legal or not.

JamisonBWolsh

11-30-2002, 11:56 PM

My friend breeds flowerhorns.. not a pretty fish eithor. Having a PURE white fish swimming through a tank is a very nice site. But then again..your in singapore..dont you guys eat tinfoils for food?

Mattimeo

11-30-2002, 11:58 PM

flowerhorns aren't rare either.... they are hybrid mutts which are being passed off as trimacs by 1 too many lfs... they should be eliminated from the hobby.

JamisonBWolsh

11-30-2002, 11:58 PM

Yea.. EVERY store has tinfoils........they are REALLY COMMON FISH!!!! however I hardly ever see albinos....

Fishie: pics of what? I already posted my albino tinfoils and dist. affinis

Serrateeth_2002

11-30-2002, 11:59 PM

JamisonBWolsh-Nope but i think neighbouring countries do,tinfoils are in the rivers of their countries,here red coloured fishes or gold coloured fishes are lucky,that's why they are very popular here.

Mattimeo-The LFS here don't care about hybrids,they just care how much money the fish can make,they won't advice you,if somebody wants to buy an oscar and put it in a 10 gal,so be it,they still make money,for most lfs here.
something rare would be rare personality in fishes like african cichlid in a community with no problems,if it even exist.

TJcanada

12-01-2002, 12:00 AM

This is not about rarity, or expense - it is about quality, and health, and interest, and than rarely seen word, beauty.

My thoughts exactly - and RTR puts it so eliquently;)

What do my fish mean to me? They are all commonly bought at any(or most) LFS - I have no rare fish - but I enjoy each and every one of them for different reasons. My school of cardinal tetras is flurishing and thier brillant color is eye catching. The little group of Keyhole cichlids(cleithracara maronii) are growing well into adulthood, each with a different "personality" which keeps me amused. There's a betta spl. female living a quiet life alone in a 10gal tank on my livingroom endtable - sausy little thing she is and I love seeing her play in the plants, or give me that cheeky "flare". Although I don't see him often, my bristlenose plec always makes me smile. I've enjoyed watching him grow from 2" to 5" - seems he hasn't stoped growing yet...he loves zuccinni! The Koi - what wonderful fish to have as pets! Each uniquely different, and so friendly(have you pet your fish today?). They are my passion, expensive maybe, but worth it imo...
I have really enjoyed my hobby of fish/aquarium keeping over these past 10-11yrs, and am now just starting to really get interested in aquartic plants. I've always had plants in my tanks but never gave them much thought - now I'm seriously taking hte time to learn about them. Like interior design of a house well done - having a beautifuly scaped tank is a pleasure, something I'm working towards.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder - I love my wetpets,common or not, and consider them all wonderfully eye catching in thier own way, after all that's what matters most to me!

Regards, TJ

TheMightyQueenPixie

12-01-2002, 12:04 AM

Originally posted by JamisonBWolsh
The quality of my LFS are tenfold as Los angeles is one of the centerpoints of getting tropical fish. NOT ONTARIO.

Don't worry, they export to us up here in ONTARIO....Unless you have done some shopping here, don't assume...I live about 20 min from an African importer...

Mattimeo

12-01-2002, 12:07 AM

TheMightyQueenPixie:
are you talking about rift valley fish breeders???

Oh yeah, ask crenicichla about the deals we can get in canada. oliver lucanus, a famous importer of the rarest and hardest to find fish, lives in montreal a few hours away from me. Brian ma has my order for fish and is going to the US to get them for me. Also, I have a friend who is getting me F0 fish from nigeria and ghana....

As a matter of fact, when pygocentrus cariba, piraiya, and ternetzi were NEVER available just 2 years back, mr. lucanus made them available. We know him personally.... Now, almost everyone in the US who gets their piranhas and rare fish from oliver's store "below water".

I can almost guarantee you that I can get any FW fish if it's not extinct. Name it and I'll find it.

crenicichla

12-01-2002, 12:11 AM

oliver is the man!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! he has the rarest fish around! im ordering a Crenicichla Lenticulata from him, if you own a piranha, i GAURANTEE somewhere along the line it has came through HIS establishment!!!!

crenicichla

12-01-2002, 12:13 AM

ever heard of Paretroplus Nourissatti they are RARELY heard of in the Hobby, a LFS has never seen them and they are extinct in the wild. im picking up a group of 6 adults in a week or so from my importer friend.

now THAT is a rare fish

Mattimeo

12-01-2002, 12:14 AM

you talking about ron crenicichla???? heh, I may buy some CB juvies from him in dec or january.... however, I think I may go the other route and get paretroplus tsimoly.....

JamisonBWolsh

12-01-2002, 12:16 AM

I never doubted the ability to get imported fish. Matty said " albino tinfoils are everywhere in ontario" and I said DOUBTFULL!!! and even went so far as calling him a liar as he said that only to insult me. How come albino tinfoils are SO POPULAR only in otario canada???? HMMMMMMM???>>? while its hard to get them on the net, in Los angeles, cleveland, and New york (family lives in clevaland and I once lived in New york) How come I seen these guys in one or two shops maybe once a year and we have LOTS of LFS I go to as well as some of the main wholesellers. And yet..ontario Canada has them in every LFS plus walmart and petco.....interesting real interesting MATTY

Mattimeo

12-01-2002, 12:20 AM

want me to go to each of my lfs with my digicam and take pics of their albino tinfoils??? They are readily available. Besides, I don't buy fish from lfs. They are low end fish, I much prefer buying through select breeders or importers.

crenicichla

12-01-2002, 12:22 AM

umm....... there all over the place here in MD and my friend lives in NYC ( long island) im on the phone with him right now confirming they are everywhere there also.

:)

im sorry to flame you dude, but you have a real attitude problem.

JamisonBWolsh

12-01-2002, 12:22 AM

Yes please....

Fishiebusiness

12-01-2002, 12:25 AM

Im having trouble imagining how a tank of albino tinfoils looks. Perhaps if you would post a pic, i could better understand how desirable they are.

crenicichla

12-01-2002, 12:25 AM

haha do it mattimeo!!! lol

i will goto my walmart sometime this week and post pics for you lol

JamisonBWolsh

12-01-2002, 12:25 AM

really..on the phone right now? How lucky eh? you just got off....its 1:30am there right now...always call your friend so late? Me smells another liar....

Serrateeth_2002

12-01-2002, 12:27 AM

Mattimeo is right breeders and importers have much more of the fishes rarely found in lfs,because these people are the ones that give lfs their fish,they distribute these so called rare fishes over a wide area.They cheaper if bought from importers and breeders than from lfs but how do you get the privilege?

crenicichla

12-01-2002, 12:27 AM

Originally posted by JamisonBWolsh
really..on the phone right now? How lucky eh? you just got off....its 1:30am there right now...always call your friend so late? Me smells another liar....

1:27. you have aol instant messenger? you can IM him right now if you want lol

JamisonBWolsh

12-01-2002, 12:29 AM

Just join a local fish club and then you can make connections. The breeder I know imports directly from africa and various other locations. he breeds wild caught and sells them to the LFS. In fact i bought 10 petricolas catfish from him for 6.00 each!!!!

Mattimeo

12-01-2002, 12:30 AM

serrateeth: I hang around another board alot which at least 5 major importers chill at, and once you know 1, chances are you;ll learn about others that they know.

also, don't call us liars... maybe it's you who has some crappy lfs'... on monday, I'm going to big al's to meet brian to drop off some money to pay for a parachromis dovii and a show quality female salvini... I'll post pics of their albino tinfoils if they aren't sold yet... petsmart always has them too...

synodontis petricola??? My petsmart and big al's had those and some eupterus... albeit not for $6.00 ea. but if I convert it to american they were roughly...$13.75 ea give or take $2

Serrateeth_2002

12-01-2002, 12:32 AM

Too bad they don't have clubs here but they do have fishe farms,the farms are huge and plenty.

JamisonBWolsh

12-01-2002, 12:33 AM

Post away, liar.

Mattimeo

12-01-2002, 12:34 AM

you know, you are really pathetic. Calling us liars just because you happen to have LFS' which don't regularly stock common fish.

Serrateeth_2002

12-01-2002, 12:36 AM

Relax people relax,you don't need a kid like me to tell adults like you to stop arguing.Sooner or later-http://www.egri.co.uk/smileys/biggun.gif http://www.egri.co.uk/smileys/gunman.gif

Mattimeo

12-01-2002, 12:36 AM

listen, I'm getting tired of clicking the **** reply button... go into the AC chat or clickhttp://www.predatoryfish.net/chat/chat.htm (HERE) to go to the pfish IRC chat....

JamisonBWolsh

12-01-2002, 12:39 AM

They stock common fish like the reg tinfoil barb. BUT nothing as spectacular as an ALBINO TINFOIL BARB!!!

goldfish freak

12-01-2002, 12:42 AM

Mattimeo, I am curious what part of Ontario do you live in? If you don't mind me asking.

Mattimeo

12-01-2002, 12:46 AM

I'm in Markham ontario...

Listen, if you like big whitish fish, then get BRYCON... beat tinfoils into the ground, plus they are MUCH rarer...

keitarou

12-01-2002, 3:06 AM

getting a little hot in here????

No I do not keep rare fish because I do not have the $ or even the ability for that matter, but I do aspire to do more challenging things. I would never love my gold fish less for having rare fish, but I would love to have a "rare fish". My definition of rare being very dificult to keep and of a pure bloodline. I have kept fish and amphibians since I was 3. A large part of the fun is doing the research and learning how to best care for a fish that you have never owned. As you learn more about fishkeeping you may have to reasult to keeping exotic fish to have a challenge.

I could not imaging the feeling I would have if I had found two extremely rare or endangered fish in captivity and had breed them, helping ensure the sruvival(at least in captivity) of the species.

I would imagine keeping dificult fish the same reason I chouse to put 2000 and 100+ hrs into my 67 mustang last summer rather than a down payment on a new, easier, more comfortable new care. It takes much more to keep my car. Yes, a 2003 stang is a great car and I would very much enjoy it, I will always like my classic better because
A. after 35 years pepole say "wow, thats a 67 mustang" and they know how much I must love cars to find one, restore it, and to keep it running.
B. after all the work and time I have put into it we are closer and it has more personality

my car is in need of a new paint job, and in my opinion a 2003 stingray looks much better, but for cars ( and fish ) worth is not always in beauty but sometimes the investment you have in it. It would not take near as much time no have the new car, but I enjoy spending time, effort, and enegry on my car.
Personaly a very healthy and happy rare fish will mean more than a tank full than a bunch of happy neons that were easy to get and keep. I would never put the effort into a fish that was not worth it, but the more time I spend and the harder I work the more i will enjoy my fish. Everything I would have learned, and al the time I spent as a fish keeper would be put into keeping a dificult fish. To me that is the worth of a fish.

Many years from now I will hopefully will have a marine tank with some very exotic species and a tank with some very old goldfish. After having the exotics for years I will be just as proud of both. It is my knowledge of how much I have given them and how much they have given in return.

firetank

12-01-2002, 3:20 AM

i got a crocodile in my 2foot tank. i had to put it in a blender first. now who else has one of THEM.

its a daft topic i believe.

silly

Cichlid Woman

12-01-2002, 7:32 AM

Are rare fish necessarily harder to care for?

-- Pat

Serrateeth_2002

12-01-2002, 8:56 AM

For most of them,either their size or requirements,usually they are rare in the wild as a species because they are not profilic

slipknottin

12-01-2002, 8:58 AM

or because there butt ugly. :D

there are plenty of rare, ugly fish out there, why does nobody keep those? :confused:

dont forget, most of the fish we see in stores are there for some good reasons.

1. there easy to care for and feed
2. usually they can be bred
3. there colorful and in demand.

125gJoe

12-01-2002, 9:02 AM

Whats so good about common fish?

Well, my Q tank has guppies and mollies and they are great common fish!

Seems the topic went to 'rare fish', so I should add Discus are very rare in central Florida. Sure, there are some, but not very healthy to say the least...

>>My other tank is a 10 gallon at 78 degrees F<< :)

Serrateeth_2002

12-01-2002, 9:12 AM

slipknottin got a good point there,the angler catfish,chaca bankanesis

AnthonyNYC

12-01-2002, 10:48 AM

JamisonBWolsh

Can you please tell me the type of fish you have in your tank(s) and what you paid for them.

Thanks

Anthony

aquariaddictus

12-01-2002, 11:09 AM

Once again, here is one of the three albino tinfoils I bought at Wal-Mart for $2.49 each. Sure they were probably mixed in with the regulars by accident, but why would anyone let that happen if they are so rare??
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid40/paf54d6356a1fb353d7d7fe42c85a18aa/fcff911a.jpg

And I will take my camera to PetSmart on my next trip and get a pic of a whole tank of them.
judy

mwood322

12-01-2002, 12:30 PM

This topic sure grew while I wasn't watching.

The reason that you don't find too many rare fish at your basic LFS is they don't stock them. It doesn't make much business sense to stock a 40 dollar fish rather than 20 2 dollar fish when the 2 dollar fish sell out in a week and the 40 dollar fish sits there for 3 weeks. My LFS will order just about anything if they know they have a buyer.

Supply and Demand is the problem. For the longest time I couldn't get Checkered Barbs. They are a cheap little fish, and kind of rare only in that they are not normally stocked. I have still only seen them twice, and yet they were under 2 dollars each time. Does that make them rare?

I work at a Petco, and the number of people who come in wanting the cheapest fish they can get is unbelieveable. Many people who keep fishtanks don't care about how rare their fish are. They want it to be pretty, hard to kill, and cheap. Its kind of pathetic, but it is also true. I had one who thought it 3was wonderful that their fish were 4 months old, adn another who is waiting for her fish to die so she can move the tank, too much hassle to move the fish i guess. Most true hobbyists do not come to Petco, because they don't sell fish that most of us would be interested in. Those brightly colored, cheap fish are stocked because they sell.

I had someone complain about having to spend 3 dollars each on 2 fish. I have regularly bought fish for 6 dollars each that want to be in a group. My hillstream Loaches were not cheap, and are semi-rare in that the species I have few others in North America do. Below Water has them, but until I can order 50-100 its a no go. My most expensive or rare fish is probably my L200 for 25, I love that fish, but not too much more than my 2 dollar neon rainbows.

My favorite LFS often stocks F0 fish from the African Rift lakes, many dwarf cichlids, and many Expensive Catfish when in Season. Yet they also don't order things they don't think they can sell. I can get them to order fish for me, almost anything available. A rare fish they had once was a 13 inch Clown Loach, which sold for several hundred dollars. They're rare only beacuse anyone who really loves the ones they have doesn't give them up when they get that size, and hundreds die in non hobbyist tanks every year.

Nowhere near me do they stock Albino Tinfoils, at least I don't look for them. Petco has a school of probably 10 Standard Tinfoils though, and none have sold in at least the last three weeks. Albinos would only be rarer because they aren't stocked normally. Less people are interested in them, so less monetary reason to sell them.

Rare fish I have, or at least rare in my area.
Gastromyzon ctenocephalus
Gastromyzon ridens
Gastromyzon punculatus
Homaloptera stephensoni
Homaloptera sp. in general are not common
Pseudogastromyzon cheni
L200
Botia histronica
Copeina guttata
Chaetostoma sp (L188)
Liniparhomaloptera disparis (trade from a hobbyist in Indiana)
Schistura sp.
Nemachelius sp.
Botia nigrolineata (rare in that they are often sold as a much rarer species, sidthimunki, which is nearly extinct)
Corydoras napoensis (Came in as an oto)

--Mia

Endlerama

12-01-2002, 1:59 PM

Among the thoughts brought to mind is that expense = rarity = scarcity to find, and that is not necessarily so.

Among my favorites in my collection are my Endler's Livebearers, which are only in natural existence in one lagoon in Venezuela, but thanks to their prolific nature, they are now beginning to be readily found in many LFS's about the area. Though their rarity is of interest to me, I keep them more for their beauty and ease of maintenance.

I also have some Espei's Rasboras and Furcata Rainbows - Here again, these are fish that are not typically found in LFS's, but they were by no means expensive, being $2 and $3 each respectively.

Personally, I can empathise with a desire to have some truly distinctive and eye catching specimens in your tanks, BUT, if the first thing that you tell a visitor about a fish is "That fish there cost me $250, and took me several months to find,....," I think you're in the hobby for the wrong reasons.

If Neon Tetras jumped to $30 each, would you start to keep them because few others could afford to, just to establish bragging rights?