First Tank-really want Discus

[gergyg]

Well I have a 55 gallon tank and am trying the fishless cycle, only 2 days so far. I really want Discus fish but am very concerned when I tested my water. My water tested very hard, I am on well water. My ph tested 8.6. I know Discus like soft acidic water. Would it be possible to use bottled water, would that help?

Also, I am adding 5 drops of ammonia / 10 gallons of water per day. How long will it take to cycle my tank? Any info greatly appreciated.

[anonapersona]

Because discus are so expensive and demanding of good water quality, they are not for beginners. I suggest that you get a year or two under your belt before you go for discus. You'll need some time to collect the materials you will need, extra heaters and filters, all sorts of junk. When you have a few hundred dollars worth of fish in the tank, you cannot be bothered by a failed heater with no back up on hand. You need to have 6 or more discus in the tank to minimize the aggression, that is a lot of money for adults. If you start with babies you have a lot of work to do to grow them up. Drop in over at SimplyDiscus or DiscusAsAHobby and read up in the beginners sections. Discus are a commitment.

[anonapersona]

I've read that cycling takes 38 days. Can be more or less, a pH crash will stall it, as will low temps. You can import bacteria from an existing tank to speed it up some.

Do you have a test kit? What level of ammonia do you get with 5 drops of ammonia per 10 gallons? How about your KH and pH?

[Jtd724]

If you want to do this, you can, but this fish you have to study how to take care of very very carefully. I myself bought 5 discus at one time and it was the worst thing I ever done, first thing is I didnt know what to look for in a quality discus, I bought 3 with gill flukes that infected my other 2. These fish are so expensive but yet so delicate, they get diseases very easy if they are not in the most pristine waters. What you MUST have for Discus is a Reverse Osmosis Filter, they are pricey but at Big Als online you can get a good one for 150-200 dollars, and trust me, it will be the best investment you ever made. With an R\O Filter, you are unlimited in what fish you can have for your tanks, basically it rips out everything in the water and brings the pH down to 4 or 5 pH and then you just buy the R\O Right which will add the necesarry salts and calciums to make you pH whatever you want, you want 6.6 pH you got it! you want 8.6 you got it!! R\O truly makes the world of fish WIDE OPEN to you. Discus must have very soft acidic water, I think its like a 6.0-6.3 pH level, i forget now but R\O is the key!!!!!

[gophersnake13]

I read a book about discus and it says that they are not delicate at all, they just react worse to undue stress, If your water is that hard then you should/could go with a Rift Lake setup. (Tip: Bog Wood and plants will soften and acidify water)

[Jtd724]

bogwood and plants will do so only temporarily for permanent water conditions of any kind, R\O filters.


EDIT: Yes you could say discus themselves are not hard to care for, the water is. They do require pristine water conditions. Either way, you have your work cut out for you. 6.5pH, dH 0-6, pH lower then 6.5 required for breeding.

[gergyg]

Thanks everyone for the advise.
I am looking at tank raised discus which apparently are not as proned to diseases as wild discus.
How does this R/O filter work, is it set up in the tank or do you filter the water before it is put in the tank?
How about bottled water, would that be easier to adjust the PH? Apparently discus ph stability is very important. How can the ph be stabilized with a R/O filter?
Any advise welcomed, Thanks.

[Jtd724]

an R/O works thru the tap, you attach one end to a sink and theres 3 tubes, in 3 different colors, one is for the bad water, the other 2 are good, well thats how mine works. The higher the price the more water it can produce a day, the filtration is so thick. Mine is 25 or 35 gallons a day. it strips your water of everything almost. closest thing to pure water. no minerals, nothing. the pH should drop anywhere to 4.0-5.0. There are all sorts of R\O mixes that add all the necessary minerals, they have instructions on how much top put in and when for whatever pH you wish to have. The investment is worth it if you really want to get into fish because you can give them the best water conditions and whatever water conditions are needed for them to thrive. Remember Big Al's Online for all fish supplies, the savings are huge. a R\O filter at a retail store for 250 you can get for 150 at Big Al's.

EDIT: the greatest reason of all for the R\O is no chemical fake buffering and crazy pH spikes and dips, with the R/O you have literally the purest water, and you can add the all natural minerals which higher the pH the more you put in ya see. The best method is add the R\O mix before putting it in the tank.

[Ryan45]

an R/O works thru the tap, you attach one end to a sink and theres 3 tubes, in 3 different colors, one is for the bad water, the other 2 are good, well thats how mine works. The higher the price the more water it can produce a day, the filtration is so thick. Mine is 25 or 35 gallons a day. it strips your water of everything almost. closest thing to pure water. no minerals, nothing. the pH should drop anywhere to 4.0-5.0. There are all sorts of R\O mixes that add all the necessary minerals, they have instructions on how much top put in and when for whatever pH you wish to have. The investment is worth it if you really want to get into fish because you can give them the best water conditions and whatever water conditions are needed for them to thrive. Remember Big Al's Online for all fish supplies, the savings are huge. a R\O filter at a retail store for 250 you can get for 150 at Big Al's.

EDIT: the greatest reason of all for the R\O is no chemical fake buffering and crazy pH spikes and dips, with the R/O you have literally the purest water, and you can add the all natural minerals which higher the pH the more you put in ya see. The best method is add the R\O mix before putting it in the tank.

And what one would you guys suggest that you can just screw on to the faucet? No need to add it to your water line?? A link at Big Al's would be good. Thanks in advance. Also please provide a link for those additives that you add to up the PH.

[Nuriel]

http://www.bigalsonline.com/catalog/product.xml?product_id=22551&category_id=1755&pcid1=

[Blackghostknife]

well i started out with dicus and BGK's yes bottled water will do what you need you will still need discus buffer as well as water softener pillows for your filter a Bio well is almost a necesaty for dicus raiseing if you like them that much. if you intend too breed them make a way too colect rain water it will truely be the only way too make it soft and acidic enof for them breed in outherwise you will be spending more money on makeing the tank where you need it for them too breed then you will be geting from selling them.

[Dr.trout]

discus arent that hard to keep as long as they are froma good breeder.I have had one for 6 years now, and i havent cleaned the tank in probly 8 months.Every once in awile i will put new water in . But all you need is a heater, some colorbits food,and a filter and your set.And a bottle of aquasole in case of finrote or ick everyonce in awile

[Dr.trout]

I just also bought 15 new discus from a pet shop in china town they costed me 120 bucks.These is how u get them to pair off gettem while they are young.

[jdellman]

If you really want them, get them. They are beautiful and worth the work. I agree with Anonaperson's suggestion to start reading up on SimplyDiscus.com, as there are a ton of very helpful articles there on everything you need to know. I do not agree with Anonaperson's statment that they are not for beginners, as a beginner can do just as well (as long as they know what to do.) That leads me back to the first point, you should read everything you can first.

I did a lot of reading first, and still have discovered that I should have done things differently to start out. For example, the low PH requirement that you hear about is only for breeding. I purchased a R/O unit, set up a whole system, and now do not use it, I am just using aged tap water. My tap water was high like yours. Let the water sit out overnight and then test it again, it should decrease. Mine went from 8.6 to 7.4, which is fine.

I also did not want a bare bottom tank (thought they are ugly) but after doing the water changes every other day, I am going to convert to a bare bottom. It would have been much easier to start out with a bare bottom.

I know there are alot of people that swear by the fishless cycle, but read up on Biospira, as I added it along with my Discus when I started the tank and everything was fine.

I was in your position a few months ago, debating whether to do it or not, and I am very happy that I did.

Good luck.

[jdellman]

Forgot to include this article- FYI-
http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34724&highlight=metronidazole

[gergyg]

Well I have officially cycled my tank , nitrates 0, ammonia 0, now using city water,peat and drift wood, PH 7.4. I am recieving 5 discus (tank raised ) Wednesday. I am using a aqua clear 300. I spoke to local fish store today and found out I had my filter in incorrectly. Can anyone confirm this as I have spoke to person who set up my tank and he says that is the way he always layered his. I had sponge filter on bottom, charcol in middle and ceramic chips on top. LFS says ceramic chips should be on bottom,then charcol ,then peat (just added)then sponge on top. Anyone to reply would be helpful.

[racingjason]

I have 6 compartments in my canister filter. I have a pre-filter to keep the big particles out, then in the 6 trays: (bottom to top) white filter floss, ceramic tubes, anti-ammonia rock/anti algae rock, more ceramic tubes, peat moss, then a filter pad right before the pump inlet to keep it extra clean. Some filters will suck up filter floss so it is not supposed to be in the last tray before the pump.
Lose the charcoal/carbon and use some water conditioner to make sure you get rid of chlorine.

[gergyg]

Why lose the charcoal/carbon ? I do use a conditioner.

[Candycat21]

I've always used an Aquaclear filter since I started in the hobby almost 10 years ago and I've had it set up the same way you have yours put together....sponge in first, then the charcoal and then the biomax/ceramic chips on the top. Never had a problem. Best HOB filters I would say too.

[racingjason]

I'm no expert but I have heard that is implicated in hole in head disease. It also absorbs some trace minerals that plants need. A lot of people just use it to remove medicine from the water after treating the tank.

[delmore]

You don't need the carbon. I have Aq's in 4 tanks. It is only good for removing meds from the water. Carbon is only active for a few weeks, then the bad stuff goes back in the water. I would put the sponge on the bottom. You could even use two sponges and the ceramic chips on top for extra biofilter.

[Harlock]

You don't need the carbon. I have Aq's in 4 tanks. It is only good for removing meds from the water. Carbon is only active for a few weeks, then the bad stuff goes back in the water. I would put the sponge on the bottom. You could even use two sponges and the ceramic chips on top for extra biofilter.
Actually, carbon will not release bad stuff back into the water. That's a myth and cannot happen in the home aquarium. It can in labs with strong bases (alkalines) but your water just couldn't get to that point and have fish living in it. Still, I am not a fan of carbon simply because it is expensive and unnecessary and to top it off, I have a planted tank and regularly add chemicals to my tank that I would prefer not be taken right back out and starve my plants of fertilizers and carbon.