canister/trickle filter combo

[audio77]

i have a 120 oceanic on the way!!!!wooo ha! ok, my question is on a filter. I was looking at the ehiem 2128 thermofilter. But i was also debaitng building a trickle filter. would it work for me to build a trickle filter that my overflow runs into, and then from there have my ehiem canister pump the water out of there in to the canister and then back up to the tank. what would the right size tank be to use as the filter? any build suggestions? thanks for your info!

[Jared]

With that size tank (similar to our 135 gal) I think that, depending on how big your fish load and (possible) live plant load, you can make do with one biofilter and a second, mainly mechanical filter. If, however, you do want two biofilters, like a trickle and an Eheim, I would not put them in series, but rather keep them on separate water circuits. In series, the second filter isn't working to full efficiency if it gets "cleaner" water from the first. You can, however, keep a prefilter (like the FilterMax III) on the Eheim intake.

Jared

[Sumpin'fishy]

In theory, yes, it should work unless you have too much head (vertical distance from canister to inlet of aquarium). The problem will be with the amount of water you will be moving in this cycle. It won't be nearly enough for a 120 gal. I'm sure that your canister is rated to move somewhere around 300 gph (if that!) and that isn't taking any head into consideration. I think you should invest in a pump (Mag Drive #12 moves 1,200 gph - costs about $90 online) I would get some other form of filtration also to supplement your sump (for mechanical filtration). An Eheim Pro, Fluval 404, or Filstar XP3 are all good canisters to supplement this setup. You could also go with 2 Aqua Clear 500's and they would be great for your mechanical filtration. They are less than half the cost of any of these canisters each! Enjoy whatever you use for this setup:)

[slipknottin]

canisters arent made to pump at any head height. They are made to do closed loops where air doesnt enter the system.

If you run a cansiter open air like that youd be lucky if the pump could reach the tank at all, nevermind how slow of a flow rate you would get.

[audio77]

well the focus of my tank is Freshwater stingray's. I liked the idea of the ehiem pro II cause it was quiet, and had a built in heater. of course you can always toss a heater in a sump too, right? what type of filter would you reccomend? skip the ehiem and get a nice trickle? any reccomendations? big als seems to be the cheapest, i've been told i can buiild one pretty easy too, but havent seen any plans or costs to do that yet. I'm still new to all this so i would really appriciate everyones input!

thanks

[audio77]

OH,.. i really want to stay away from HOB filters too, i've been suggested emperors, and AC500's..... i actually was bouncing back and forth between the emps and the ehiem pro II . i think it really takes away from the look of the tank.

[Sumpin'fishy]

Emperors are HOB's. Whether you have a inlet to a canister or inlet to a HOB, there both sticking down into the watercolumn, usually at least half way down. I am going to build a DIY rock background and try to camoflage the HOB inlet with my setup.

[audio77]

yeah i know they are HOB filters, I'm spending good money for the oak stand and cap. I realize that the hose from the canister will have to hang over the tank, but i dont want to see a big filter hanging off the back, which means the tank has to be that much farther off the wall. but like i said, if there was some type of advantage in using them, i'd have to think about it.

HEY slipknottin
if i ran the 2 filters in series, why would the canister suck air? wouldnt the sump (which is where the canister would suck it's water from) be FULL of water? I've never used a w/d before so i dont know.

[JSchmidt]

Canisters are designed such that their inlet and output tubes are at about the same height. As such, their motors merely have to pull water from the tank and thru the filter media.

What you are describing is a pump that would take in its water from the sump and have to lift it several feet (at least), in addition to pulling the water thru the filter media. This requires much more pumping capacity than most canisters have.

Jim

[audio77]

yeah that makes sense. well let me ask all of you EXPERIENCED guys out there then. for a 120 gal tank, am i better off going with a trickle filter or a eheim canister. i'm going to have a couple of rays, a bgk, and possibly something else. maybe some tinfoil barbs

[JSchmidt]

For a tank that size, you really need more than one filter. I'm partial to Eheims, and I think a couple of 2028s or a 2028 and a 2229 wet/dry canister would be good. If you go with 2028s, make sure they're prefiltered, and clean the prefilter sponges regularly. It will greatly extend the time between canister cleanings. The FilterMax mentioned above is an easy option for prefiltering.

Jim

[Sumpin'fishy]

I agree with most of what schmidt said, except that if you are going to use a canister for mechanical filtration I wouldn't put a prefilter on it. That's what makes HOB's so nice, They are very easy to rinse mechanical filter media. If you have prefilters (like I have on my canister (used for bio filtration almost exclusively) if it does collect SOME particulate matter from the tank, when you remove the prefilter, some of it will drop back off into the tank. I use a HOB and a canister for my 55 gal. I'm circulating about 450 gph, just to give you an idea. And I could get away with adding one more filter!

With the larger fish you are looking to get I would go with a wet/dry (with some mechanical filter floss before bio-balls) and AT LEAST one more canister or HOB with high turn-over to really clear up the water from solid particles. I would lean toward getting 3 total filters. This is my opinion, and I would prefer to over- than under-filter. That's one reason the AC 500's are so nice, get great mechanical with little money.

[superstein61]

Well, don't know if its too late because the tank is on its way - but if one of your main concerns is aesthetics and keeping it close to the wall, why not investigate having the bottom drilled for a built in overflow . That way you could plumb it directly to a wet/dry filter / sump with bioballs, etc and not see anything off the back of the tank. You could thus get the tank less than an inch away from the wall if you wanted.

Just throwing that idea out since you mentioned your investment in the stand, etc and not wanting anything detracting from it hanging off the back

[audio77]

YEAH, my brother actually suggested that because its better to have them then to wish i did! so i'ts comming with overfows. a good wet dry wouldnt be enough? how is the maint on one of those big things. i know there is a pre filter at the top, i'm sure it needs cleaning regularly. any Quiet pump recommendations,....

thank you all again for your help

[audio77]

i found these on big als,.. big difference in price between these pumps?! is the eheim that much better, do you think?

SURGE 6000 AQUA PUMP Flow Rate- (870 GPH/3300 LPH)Max. Head- (13'8"/4.3m) 39.99

SURGE 7500 AQUA PUMP Flow Rate- (1070 GPH/4055 LPH)Max. Head- (14'7"/4m) 57.99

EHEIM HOBBY PUMP- 1060 -FLOW RATE: 600 GPH (2280 LPH). MAXIMUM PUMPING HEAD: 10 FT. (3.1 METERS). 114.99

i also saw the "Lifegaurd quiet one" pump, but big als didnt have any specs on max head
*****************************
this is the wet dry i was looking at
AMIRACLE MAXI REEF 300 FILTER - The MR-300 includes a molded dual pre-filter unit which has a capacity of up to 1200 gallons per hour. http://www.bigalsonline.com/cgi-bin/view.cgi

so you dont think that would be enough?

[audio77]

I've been moved?

[slipknottin]

The quiet one is an external pump.

Personally Id go with either one of the dolphin pond series pumps, or a Mag 7 or 9.

A wet/dry filter is more than able to filter a tank that size on its own.

You can effectivly do anything you want with a wet/dry filter. Your not at all limited to 1 thing. You can do any combination of filter media and placement you want. You could also make it into a refugium by adding a small light and some floating plants.

[Scooter]

As far as pumps go, look into Custom Sealife's Titanium series. They're more expensive than most, but worth the extra $$. You absolutely won't hear it and it'll run forever. The only downside is that it will add somewhere around 2-4 degrees to your tank temp. This is good in the winter. I've only got one running right now and it's on a custom built wet/dry for a 75g. I don't even use a heater in the sump and my temp stays at 78 even when I've got my room temp at about 70.

I might add too that a single good sized wet/dry would be sufficient filtration for your tank w/o adding a canister, if you set it up right. I've got three different sponges (one being an AC500) on my wet/dry plus the floss; two before the floss and one in the sump. This type set-up might save you some money over buying two separate filters. Good luck with whatever route you choose. You've got multiple options, which is always a good thing :D