Just starting w/ lots of questions

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piglet007

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Mar 8, 2005
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We watch finding nemo way too much!! We have been researching the sw tank for a few months now. There just seems to be so much conflicting information or advice that now I'm confused. We have about 7 different books that we used plus info from people who have had them. One had nothing but problems and it lasted only a few months. Another has had it for 10 yrs does hardly anything to it and has had no problems at all. I took his advice and combined it with the lfs advice. The problem is that most of the lfs around here know squat, but this particular lfs seemed to know a bit more.

Soooo we have a 75 gallon tank, crushed coral on the bottom, 2 filters and 2 heaters running. Water has been in for 2 weeks and we just added some small damsels to cycle the tank. Now I read to do a fishless cycle and well, we have the fish now. I was told to get some live rock and when we questioned the lfs he said not to bother with it.

The tank looks good set up now but I would really like to get some live rock, but is it neccesary? Will I be able to put it in now if we go that route? Also, I read to do a freshwater dip for about 3 minutes before putting the fish into the tank but I won't dare try that without more information.

I don't want to get the "real fish" in there until it is good and ready but now I'm not sure if I will even know when it will be ready. I have just starting testing the water daily, should I do this daily? The salinity is 1.023 ph is 8.2 ammonia and nitrite is 0 nitrate is 20. If I am understanding what I am reading, the nitrate level should be 20 or less. Also, the temperature, what we have read told us to keep the temp around 82/84. Now I"m reading that it should be between 78 and 82?? so which is it? Right now we are holding about 82/84.

What necessities do I need? I've read get a protien skimmer, then read not to. Are there any additives that I should keep on hand incase the parameters change?
Now, onto the fish that are on my fishwishlist. I have 3 kids here and of course they want some nemo fish.. I would eventually like to have a long horned cow fish, porcupine puffer, dogface puffer and some clownfish oh and a tang and a triggerfish. They ( the kids) would also like jock (from nemo). Too many fish? Not compatible? Better off waiting on some of them after I have yrs of experience? What would be good to start off with (please say the puffer fish). Hopefully you can lead me in the right direction..thanks
 
HEHEH, yes, you are right, your LFS knows jack ****. Live rock is essenstial for an aquarium because it gives the tank all the good bacteria it needs. I currently have a 50g reef with 16 kg live rock and 10 base rock. The live rock isn't cheap but is worth it. When you buy it try to get cured rock, this way it won't be filled with unwanted hichikers. If you have base rock it will eventually become live rock because it becomes seeded. The fish you want is WAY to many. You could probebly have no more than 6 or 7 fish in the aquarium. A long horned cow fish are extremely hard to look after and release a toxic venom when it is scared and when it dies. I think you should start off with easy fish, ie. a pair of ocellaris clownfish (nemo), damsels are very aggresive. You could get a blue tang (dory) they atre wicked, but what ever you do get easy, cheap fish first. And read alot, websites are best.
 
I figured my fishwishlist was a bit too much lol. Will look into getting the live rock. What will I have to do with it before placing it in the tank? How about the dogface puffer? Too hard to keep? Now I've also heard the opposite about the cowfish, that they are easy to keep. A friend of mine sent me the links to this forum and another (but this one seemed nicer and had more information) so needless to say I have been reading since about 10 am.. still going strong. Are the other tank decor ok to have with getting the live rock? I wanted a yellow tang (bubbles??) but then the 3 yr old wants dory. How bout that porcupine puffer?? Is he a possibility? I realize I have to wait before getting these fish, don't want anyone thinking that I am just going to go out and get them and pray for the best. I want the tank and myself to be ready. I'm just impatiently looking ahead for the fish to fit the names I have picked out lol.
 
I am not to sure about puffers, but as far as tangs go, they aren't that hard to keep, or so I am told. Yellow tangs are very expensive, the blue tangs aren't bad financially. I just checked out the cow fish for you and it needs a MINIMUM tank size of 125g. With the live rock, get CURED live rock which means it has been at the shop and cycled already. This will speed up your cycling process aswell as stopping any little unwanted hitchickers taging along. It is very common to get things like crabs and worms etc with your live rock and buying cured will prevent this. What you also have to look at with fush is their size and what size aquarium they can be in. where do you live by the way??
 
Umm yeah
Your LFS guy is right. You dont need live rock.
You have 2 filters
Live Rock is for those who want a natrual filtration system for there tank, and support smaller natural critters in there tank for there Corals's to eat (these "critters" will get stuck in filters and die)

If you want a tank fish only tank. You DO NOT need any live rock.

As for the fish i tell ya rite off all puffers are aggresive there not killers persay but you,ll have tattered fins all the time. (Best kept with non aggresive agile fish that can keep there distance)

Tangs are movers and need more spaces. You could probably get away with a yellow tank (around 8") Dori however is like a foot long and need's a bigger tank. And to top it off there ich magnet's (dwarf angel whould be a better choice)

Long horn cows are Huge! They can get over a foot and half long! Plus there really not as cute when there that big LOL

You could deffiniatly get one of the smaller Triggers, But there pretty aggresive and i whould'nt recomend putting them with a puffer.

And jock he was the shrimp wasnt he? As long as you kept away from certain fish you be fine to have one (puffer will eat him on sight)

Think around 1 inch of fish per 5/6 Gallons of water. So think like 15 inches of fish grand total.
 
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Even if you want to get a Fish only tank you should ALWAYS have some live rock just for the sake of all the good bacteria. You don't need alot at all, a kilo or two is fine. You can keep a blue tang for a few years until he would be too big, if you buy him small, that is what i am planning on doing. but you must first decide if you want a reef or not. A reef needs alot of light and that tends to be expensive.
 
First--mixing filtration types doesn't work well. With lots of aerobic filtration (the power filters), you will need to do frequent water changes to keep the nitrates low--the crushed coral compounds the problem by trapping solid waste, requiring frequent cleaning. Neither the power filters nor the CC will support the anaerobic bacteria that process nitrates--but this doesn't mean you can't be successful, just know that you'll need to do more water changes. With that in mind, large predatory fish are not a good idea. You can add live rock--I would recommend it--but it's not necessary. The live rock will help process nitrates, and give the fish good places to hide, but no, it's not an absolute must have. Just a very good idea.

Instead of a puffer, look at burrfish. They tend to be less aggressive and stay smaller, but still have the spiny look. They can mix with triggers, especially if you go with a more peaceful species, like a blue throat. I would avoid queens and clown triggers--very aggressive, too large.

I would not add a dogface to the mix. Very aggressive, requires lots of crunchy foods to prevent teeth from over gorwing--in short, not a good beginner fish.

Clowns are fine--are you planning on removing the damsels? May be some conflict if not, depends on the damsels.

Tangs. I disagree that tangs are easy to care for. They need lots of swimming room, and do best in tanks that have lots of algae growth to graze on all day. Smaller ones, like the scopas or yellow eye, would be a better choice than either a yellow or a blue. I don't support buying fish that will outgrow your tank--they seldom find good homes when returned, and it encourages their ongoing importing, despite inadequate care.

Longhorn cows get way too big for your setup, and really do better in setups with live rock, as they consume pods by the 100's.

For any crustaceans--it will depend on what fish you get. Puffers and triggers tend to eat shrimp and crabs, so wouldn't be a good mix at all.
 
about those puffers you wanted- all puffers are extremely messy guys, and 19 out of 20 are going to be very agressive and definately are not suited for someone who is just starting out in aquaria- very intelligent and wonderful to have, but definately not for a beginner. id say steer clear of puffers in all community tanks unless your experienced and ready to move them into a fully-cycled aquarium them at the first sign of bullying.
 
Thank you for the advice. I live in NJ. So the live rock is not a neccesity but reccomended. Maybe I'll get just a little bit. What about the temperature? Any additives? I'd like to have a few things on hand before getting the main fish. So water changes are the only thing to bring down the nitrates aside from live rock? How often is it recommended? Are there any other must haves? Like I said we have 2 filters running and the heaters and that is it? We have a big bucket for mixing the salt water.

As far as the fish. I just love the boxfish. I have seen a large long horned cowfish that was colorful and he was just so cute. I really think they are cute nomatter how big, I love the lips. A friend of mine who had the saltwater had a very small cowfish. I've always thought that the fish will get as big as their environment will let them? I take that it is not true. I really would hate to get a fish that I have to return or give away, is this something that is done frequently? I looked up the burrfish and he is just as cute. I'm wondering if that wasn't one of the fish I was eyeing up at the lfs. I still really like the dogface puffer and basically all the puffers that I have seen. I take it we would have to go with a more aggressive fish if we were to have puffers? Since I listed those that I like, could someone lead me to others that are safer to keep but look similar? As far as the damsels go. I was told to transplant them to the 1000 gallon tank and I just could not flush them alive and wouldnt' purposely kill them. The same person who told me that, their so said not to do that, they left their damsels in and one still lives and is doing fine. Now, like animals, once top hog is established (Sorry have potbellies here) would there be less problems? When it is safe to get these fish, I'd like to have my list readily available. I'd prefer to have someone with experience, unlike the lfs employees tell me what is and isnt' safe to have together. I may head over to the lfs today to check out more fish. Also, after choosing the fish taht I want, adding one at a time is better then adding them all in at the same time?
If anyone has made it this far please let me know what else I should get before going to the lfs.. Thank you guys, yous are filled with so much knowledge and I have learned more from you guys in one day, that I learned in all the books we have read.
 
Fish that don't grow to their full adult size have been stunted and will live much shorter lives. This is particularly relevant for SW fish--some FW fish live in environments where the size of their water naturally shrinks--the ocean does not.

The dogface is much more aggressive than the porcupine puffers--totally different temperment, but both need lots of crunchies in their diet to do well. In addition to the burrfish, look at the toady group--also called a puffer, but they stay smaller and while they can be nippy, they don't have the tendency to draw blood. Triggers and other aggressive fish can pose a threat to inquisitive fingers--just a caution, since this will be for your children. My trigger had drawn blood several times (he's not that bad, I just don't pay attention as well as I should). Also, to reiterate--burrfish, puffers, and triggers are not safe with crustaceans. Even cleaner shrimp can be eaten.

If you can't take the damsels back to the store, you may be in for some trouble. The problem is that damsels can be very territorial and they are hardy. They may be a constant source of aggression. What kinds do you have?

Adding 1 fish every 2-3 weeks typically works. The tank has to develop more bacteria to handle the increased bio-load, so adding several fish at once is a bad idea. You'll want to test the water to determine when it will be safe to get a new fish, and use nitrates to determine the frequency of water changes. You'll want to build your full list of fish species, and then add them in order of increasing aggression. This gives the shy fish time to get comfortable and claim a territory witout being pestered too much.

Finally--an important point that you'll just have to gauge for yourself. Following Nemo, lots of aquariasts came home to empty tanks after their well meaning child decided to 'free' the fish--ie, dump them down the drain, since all drains lead to the ocean. You need to make sure your kids understand this is not true, and that dumping the fish will kill them. Not saying yours might, just passing along some info so you can make an informed choice.
 
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