View Full Version : My poor goldfish is suffering...:(
SunnyD
03-11-2005, 6:22 PM
I've had this gold fish for quite some time...6 months or so. Today he was lying listless on the bottom. I tried a salt solution to perk him up but to no avail. I've changed the water too.
He's been like this for over 10 hours and he's curved and floating around the tank. I know he is still alive, his gills are moving, but he appears to be paralyzed and just gets pushed around by the current. I hate to see him suffer so long like this. And I just don't know what to do.
Any help or suggestions anyone??
Thank you ~D :-/
Blinky
03-11-2005, 6:45 PM
Welcome to the forum. Sorry to hear your fish isn't doing well :(
The more information you can provide, the more likely it is you'll get an accurate answer - tank size, water test results, water change schedule etc. would help.
From the way you describe him, it sounds like your fish isn't going to make it. If you feel he's suffering, it's probably best to put him down. There's a sticky at the top of this forum on humane euthanization, I recommend clove oil - I had to put a very special fish to sleep a little while ago and found it worked quickly and without undue stress to the fish; he just went peacefully to sleep.
Seaman
03-11-2005, 6:48 PM
Usually clamped fins or curled body isnt a good sign. What size tank do you have him in, goldfish are BAD about making a lot of amonia, and most people dont realize they need a much larger tank than they provide. If you're sure he isnt going to survive, the eaisest thing to do is go buy some clove oil (usualy near teeth care in most supermarkets) and use 5-10 drops in a gallon bucket and he will get knocked out, then you can freeze him. makes it more painless.
Trust me its not easy.
Harlock
03-11-2005, 7:00 PM
Sorry to hear about the fish. 6 months isn;t all that long at all for a goldie. He sounds like a goner. I suggest reading this article (http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37740) from the Article Forum right here at Aquaria Central for more information on euthanization.
SunnyD
03-11-2005, 8:18 PM
Thank you all for your replies and suggestions.
I'm very sad at the thought of my Matsy dieing. He's a real trooper and has been hanging on all day...literally since 5:00 am when I found him stuck to the filter. I found him like that a couple weeks ago and quickly changed his water and retreated the tank with the requisite tap water conditioner. He seemed to have bounced back from that situation quite well.
He was in a 10 gallon tank all alone for the past 6 months and doing fine. I thought it was finally time for him to get some buddies. So I added two redheads I think they are called (white goldfish with red on the head). The guy in the store said it would be fine.
Then algae began to run rampant in the tank so back to the petshop I went to get something to address that issue. I came home with 2 catfish that the guy told me would get rid of algae. Only to learn today when I went back and spoke to the manager that the catfish just eat the crap off the bottom and I need an algae eater to get rid of the algae.
So as of this moment, residing in the 10 gallon tank are...2 catfish, 2 redheads, an algae eater and my favorite baby, Matsy.
I can't get over the fact that the little guy is really trying to survive. He attempts to swim but his body is curved...and I can't bear to watch anymore. I don't know if I have the gumption to put him down myself. I can actually reach in the tank and touch him and he doesn't swim away.
How is it that's he's hung on for this long?
With sadness, ~D
Awww Sunny, It's a hard way to learn a lesson, my heart goes to you.
Here's the bare bones of it; you're overstocked. For that level of fish load, you probably need a 30 gallon to start and probably an upgrade in a few months as the fish (and the waste they produce) increase.
My guess is that you added the newcomers recently? I don't know if it will have any effect this late in the game but you might want to try to find a late-nite pet store and buy some de-chlorinator and do a 50% water change.
Next buy a bigger tank (or 3 more 10 gallon tanks) and distribute the fish in de-chlorinated water.
Read up on the sticky posts in the 'Freshwater Newbie' forum, and get an understanding on 'cycling your tank'
Best of luck :)
Raskolnikov
03-11-2005, 8:53 PM
It sounds like your best bet is to put it down.
As an aside, throwing more fish at an algae problem is almost never the answer, but rather exacerbates the problem. 10g is also too small a tank for goldfish which may or may not have come into play with your misfortune.
.
Blinky
03-11-2005, 8:58 PM
It sounds like you got some lousy advice, I'm so sorry. 10g is small for even one goldfish (common goldfish can reach over a foot in length, some fancies can grow to around 10" and weigh nearly a pound). Adding two redcap orandas and catfish (I'm guessing you were probably sold common plecos, which reach up to 20" in length and, like goldfish, are messy for their size) likely threw off the balance in your tank. Skyrocketing nutrient levels likely sparked the algae outbreak, and adding the catfish will only have compouded the issue.
Situations like these make me so angry with store employees - it's not your fault, I can't count the number of times I've seen/heard fish/pet store employees suggesting inappropriate things to people who are relying on their advice.
If Matsy is as sick as he sounds, the humane thing to do is put him down. It's not easy, but IMO it's the best thing to do.
Nuriel
03-11-2005, 9:00 PM
oh dear~! wghat type of catfish do you have? sounds quite overstocked, thanks to the 'experts" st your local store, they set ou up for a 10 gallon disaster. One goldie by its self will quickly outgrow a 10 gallon, i suggest you search for goldfish on these forums and find out the proper size tank for these large growing friends. good luck, hope some more people respond as i am short winded at the moment.
SunnyD
03-11-2005, 9:25 PM
I've read everyone's posts.
Errrr, so very annoying! And all this because I didn't want Matsy to be lonely. He would have been fine had I just left well enough alone.
Yes, you are right, the algae didn't begin until the 2 redcaps were introduced. Then the additional catfish I guess really began to disturb things.
Although I did do a PH and Ammonia test on a daily basis and they always came up okay. I even brought a sample of the results to the petshop...oh well, that's the same petshop that sold me the additional fish and said it would be okay.
Well, I did a 50% water change today and dechlorinated too. He's not better, but I can certainly attest to the fact that the other fish seem absolutely fine.
Some of you may remember, this little Matsy is the last survivor of about 50 goldfish that were to be a college prank. They were rescued by my niece but all died except Matsy. I'm heartbroken. I don't feel the way about the new fish that I do about Matsy. And I'm soo mad at myself right now!
~D :(
Sunny, can you return the other fish? Nip the next disaster in the bud?
We'ed be glad to help you get started again on the right foot!
Harlock
03-11-2005, 9:35 PM
I've read everyone's posts.
Errrr, so very annoying! And all this because I didn't want Matsy to be lonely. He would have been fine had I just left well enough alone.
Yes, you are right, the algae didn't begin until the 2 redcaps were introduced. Then the additional catfish I guess really began to disturb things.
Although I did do a PH and Ammonia test on a daily basis and they always came up okay. I even brought a sample of the results to the petshop...oh well, that's the same petshop that sold me the additional fish and said it would be okay.
Well, I did a 50% water change today and dechlorinated too. He's not better, but I can certainly attest to the fact that the other fish seem absolutely fine.
Some of you may remember, this little Matsy is the last survivor of about 50 goldfish that were to be a college prank. They were rescued by my niece but all died except Matsy. I'm heartbroken. I don't feel the way about the new fish that I do about Matsy. And I'm soo mad at myself right now!
~D :(
Don't beat yourself up. It happens. We see bad advice from pet stores everyday on these boards. They should know better but rather than be honest and say, "Gee, algae problem? Don't feed as much and try a blackout," they get little dollar signs in their eyes and say, "Gee, algae problem? Buy, buy, BUY!" I will tell you one thing; learning from a site like this will beat a fish store hands down nearly every time. I have learned so much from this site, and from its members. Educating yourself with techniques that aren't printed in books or even magazines yet from smarter people than me just can't miss. Plus, this site is donation only and no one here is selling me anything. I'd ask you to stick around, browse the forums, read the threads that interest you and I bet in no time you'll be better versed than the local fish store people that caused you so much distress. Best of luck, and I hope to see you around.
im very sorry for your hardship.
i know how it feels, i recently had a bala shark that had the same problem with the aimless drifting and the crooked body.
i just watched him and hoped for the best and he hung on for a good long time, but one night i saw my loaches attacking him because he had landed on the bottom and was just kinda twitching, so i really had no choice but to put him down. :( it was sad, but i was tired of watching him suffer and didnt think it was fair to him to just let my loaches eat him.
sad :(
mr.amateur45
03-11-2005, 9:53 PM
hmmm, your best bet is to simply put him down. u culd put him in chlorine water, which should kill him instantly and painlessly. or, if he falls to the bottom, poke him with a net til he comes back up. this works. but you cant leave him. thats what u do to let him survive, if u love em enough and have the time. but thats so sad. :sad
Matak
03-11-2005, 10:05 PM
Chlorine is far from painless to a fish. If you do decide to euthanize, check here. (http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37740)
mr.amateur45
03-11-2005, 10:12 PM
sobb sobb. i remember the first fish i lost. i had 8 tetras, neon and black neon. ich killed em all. sobb sobb. i kinda know ur pain.
SunnyD
03-11-2005, 10:28 PM
Thank you so much everyone!
I took Matsy out of the tank again as he was laying at the bottom and twitching too. And I see what you mean by the gills curling out too. I only just noticed that. The other fish were just ignoring him though.
I have him in a bucket of water which I dechlorinated. I don't know if putting him in the chlorine water will be a painless death. Not sure I feel comfortable with that.
I want to attempt to make him as comfortable as possilbe, although nothing about this is comfortable for him I'm sure. I don't know of an all-night petshop where I could buy the oil.
Matsy surely is on his last breath and I've got to come to terms with it. When you loose, don't loose the lesson.
But, as for the survivors. The 2 redcaps who are constantly playing and chasing each other, and 2 tiny catfish, I dont know what kind they are but they are about an inch long and brown. They hang out together and that's kinda cute. And the algae eater, which is actually a pretty cool looking fish. I'm quite fond of him.
How do you think they'll fare in the 10 gallon tank? And how often should I feed? The instructions on the TetraColor Tropical Flakes says 2 to 3 times daily. I was feeding twice a day, around 9am and 11 pm. Should I cut that back to once a day now? And the lighting? Is that contributing to the algae growth? I turn the light off at night from about 11 pm to 9 am.
Really, you all have been great and very supportive, thanks so much for the great ideas, suggestions and advise. I really appreciate it!
Smiles ~D :)
SunnyD
03-11-2005, 11:21 PM
A close inspection of Matsy's corpse shows little little fuzzy strings of things all over him, in and around his mouth, on his tail, etc.
Is that a result of the decaying corpse or is it a bacteria or disease that could possibly have contributed to his death?
I attempted to pull some of it off, put it's so fine and sort of slimy.
Any guess's? I want to prevent the demise of the others in the tank if it's a disease and something I can address before they succumb to it too.
Thanks again ~D
Harlock
03-11-2005, 11:24 PM
Are they thin and threadlike? Might be anchor worms or something if so.
SunnyD
03-11-2005, 11:39 PM
Well, it was thin and thread like yes. What are anchor worms...I'll do some research. Hopefully the others don't get it!
~D
Raskolnikov
03-11-2005, 11:42 PM
http://www.labanimal.com/laban/journal/v34/n1/full/laban0105-16.html
SunnyD
03-12-2005, 12:05 AM
The discription on that website certainly sounds like they could be anchor worms, but without a picture I can't be sure.
I'll continue to research it and also keep a close eye on the survivors.
Thanks again ~D
Harlock
03-12-2005, 9:38 AM
Here is a link (http://www.blueridgekoi.com/Anchor_worm2.jpg) to a picture of a goldfish with anchowrm.
Sunny, it isn't necessary to feed your fish three times a day. Doing so will probably just add to the waste that causes pollution in your tank. I feed my fish once every one to two days, and I only feed them what they can consume in three minutes. I have been doing this for a couple of years now and all my fish are healthy and actually growing! It was a bit of a shock to me when I learned on these boards that fish don't need food like mammals do.
HTH :)
Seaman
03-12-2005, 5:51 PM
How do you think they'll fare in the 10 gallon tank? And how often should I feed? The instructions on the TetraColor Tropical Flakes says 2 to 3 times daily. I was feeding twice a day, around 9am and 11 pm. Should I cut that back to once a day now? And the lighting? Is that contributing to the algae growth? I turn the light off at night from about 11 pm to 9 am.
Smiles ~D :)
I hate to have to say it, but they wont last in a 10g, the smallest tank I personally would put 1 oranda or redcap goldfish is a 29g and even then that would be with weekly waterchanges. First off find out exactly what kind of other fish you have (the catfish and the algae eater) and then we can make better reccomendations.
As for the algae you will want to keep the light on for about 10 hours a day and reduce feeding to once every other day. Then if the algae still is a problem, you should cover your tank with garbagebags or something that completely blocks the light, and do a "blackout" no light at all for 3 days, also do not feed for those 3 days. What this does is algae cant store nutrients, so without light for 3 days it dies. Light, feeding habits, and waterchange habits all play major factors in algae growth.
SunnyD
03-13-2005, 4:35 PM
Still not sure if that was anchorworm on Matsy. It was tiny strands seemed thinner and more transparent then in that photo.
I compaired my fish to some photo's on the internet and I would say the two tiny catfish are Cory. They looked most like the Bronze Cory since they are more of a solid brown/dark greenish in color.
The algae eater is very dark and looks most like a Pleco. He is a dark brown solid color and doesn't have any spots.
Well, I will cut back on the feedings to just a pinch once a day, but it looks like I'm going to have to get a larger tank anyway, huh? Can I use the existing water of this tank to create the new tank so I don't have to go through the cycling and all that?
Thanks a bunch ~D
kveeti
03-13-2005, 5:06 PM
There is little to no nitrifying bacteria in the water column. For cycling, use the old gravel, decorations and put the used filter media in the new tank filter (or run the old filter and newer bigger tank filter simultaneously for a while).
Harlock
03-13-2005, 9:39 PM
There are other nematodes that will attach to fish. Usualy the same sort of copper treatment (grr, I wish I could advise something better, anyone please help out) can get rid of them. Also, a salt bath (not the same as a salt treatment) can get rid of many external parasites.
SunnyD
03-13-2005, 11:13 PM
This whole fish ownership thing is really getting to me...
One of the redcaps is hanging out in the corner, face to the glass like he's in time out. Not typical of his behavior in the last 2 weeks I've had him. I changed about 50% of the tank water 2 days ago. Should I do it again now.
And the Pleco agae eater that I have came out of his hiding place momentarily and he appears lighter in color then he was when I got him. If he is ill would that cause his color to change? And I notice he does in fact have sort of a striped print on his tail. I'm thinking he's not the type of Pleco I thought he was.
Perhaps I'm just a little neurotic at the moment recouping from the lose of Matsy but I just can't bear the lose of another fish.
Thanks ~D
^^^^^Bump^^^^^^
I don't know the answer but let's get this back into the light for an answer.
Oddball~
03-14-2005, 11:01 PM
Ask them what kind of algae eater it is and what kind of catfish they are.
If it is the case that the algae eater is an otocinculus, then it will do fine.
I am not sure of any catfish that are small and stay small that are common in the trade, so try to return those fish.
Nuriel
03-14-2005, 11:44 PM
If they are cory cats the two bronze will be fine in the ten. However, they do like to school so if you end up upgrading to a larger tank (yea!!!!) I suggest getting about three more to form a school of five. Very fun bottom dweller. Goldfish are coldwater, and theycan do fine for a while in a heated (tropical- mid seventies+) tank but prefer water in the 60's. Cory cats need a warmer tropical tank. And plecos can adapt from what I hear, from water in the 60s to a warm enviroment. If you keep the goldies I would definetly upgrade to at least a 29 gallon. And plecos get huuuuuuge, at least the common ones do. Good luck.
SunnyD
03-15-2005, 8:31 AM
The fish are all doing great. I changed about a third of the water and they seem to be doing quite well.
The water temp shows 70 on the thermostate but that's the lowest it displays so it could actually be cooler then that.
The Pleco is a Common Pleco and the Cory are Bronze Cory. The Pleco is an awesome looking fish. If I get a larger tank...say 29 gallon, can I get another Pleco??
Thanks again! ~D
katfood
03-15-2005, 8:39 AM
Not if you want your pleco to be happy. If you get another male, they will soon fight over territory.
Not only do plecos get massive, they are waste machines and can be very territorial. You may even have problems with the cories and the lone pleco if the cory wonders into the plecos territory on the substrate, which is inevitable in a small tank. I suppose the corys could hold their own for awhile, but plecos get huge.
Which brings me to another point. Read up on HITH and the effects of stunted growth in fish. You'll have to upgrade soon with the pleco in your tank, but with two, you'd have to at least go for a 55 gallon, in my opinion.
(I tend to give fish more room than most people do... that's just me, I suppose.)
SunnyD
03-15-2005, 8:55 AM
I certainly won't get another Pleco then.
The petshop did not tell me that the Pleco's get huge. What is wrong with those people?? One of my Cory's is medium...about an inch and a half, but the other is tiny. Incidentially, I often see the tiny one snuggling up with the Pleco in his cave. Is that normal behavior?
~D
katfood
03-15-2005, 9:07 AM
Cories are endlessly interesting fish. Maybe he thinks he's a pleco :).
It's really good that your pleco is not fighting with the cories. How big is he so far? If you just got him I'm willing to bet he's not much bigger than the cories. Problems could still arise later...
LFSs are a business. They aren't going to tell you the things that will make you think twice about buying their fish. Back when I first started, I was also tricked into buying a pleco for a ten gallon tank. I was furious when I did some reading about it and let the LFS know by storming in their store and trying to talk some since into them (as if that will ever work).
The moral of our stories:
Research Research Research Research.
http://www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/Fishindx/compleco.htm
There's some adults (not even fully grown, it looks like.) But yeah 12" is a big fish. Keep in mind they are tanks, too. Very wide as well as long and complete with armor. They also swim very fast. IMO a mad pleco can cause serious damage to smaller fish, I see it in LFSs all the time. If for some reason he lacks protein, he will go after the cories (and any other fish) to get their slime coat. Once he does this, it will be the equivalent of a shark tasting blood. He won't stop. And when the fish dies, its possible that he'll go looking for more tasty protein on your other fish. That's the main reason I was saying to provide a balanced diet for your animals. Somebody posted about this, do some searching for plecos on here.
Oddball~
03-15-2005, 5:35 PM
Return your pleco and get a bristlenose since those plecs grow only 5 inches long
LFSs are a business. They aren't going to tell you the things that will make you think twice about buying their fish. Back when I first started, I was also tricked into buying a pleco for a ten gallon tank. I was furious when I did some reading about it and let the LFS know by storming in their store and trying to talk some since into them (as if that will ever work).
:OT: ...I don't think that greed is always the case. I believe that most LFS employees and the majority of owners/managers are really quite ignorant, as in uninformed. Try querying them on a few basic truths of fishkeeping.
ImALittleFishy
03-15-2005, 7:35 PM
You really either have to take your goldfish back or get a bigger tank. Plecos really need a 55g, and even that will be cramped when its full grown(until then you will stunt it and possibly disable it, resulting in a shortened, sickly life), 75g better. Gold fish need 10g a peice and need cooler water than the cories and pleco. BTW-I have often heard that (also) plecos can develop a taste for the goldfishes slime coat, ending in usually death. You would be benefited by feeding your goldies and pleco veggies. Zucchini, squash, peas, cucumbers, all blanched or whatever. Goldfish need salt, which may or may not agree with your other fish. None of this will matter, if you don't get a bigger tank. They will die. Most goldfish live well above 10years, closer to 20yrs to my understanding, six months is no time to them. You will have nothing but problems in the future, I promise. I would go back to the same pet store and complain to the management, they should accept the return and I would be very unhappy if they did not at least give me something more suitable for a 10g, if not my money back. Unless you get a 55g I would stay away from the common plecos. Cories love their own company, if you got rid of the pleco and goldfish, you could get a couple more cories and a Oto or two being better, I would at least get one more cory, after you fix the current problem.
If you have anchor worms, I have heard you can manually remove them. Are you sure it was not fuzzy? Could be flex? Kind of cotton fuzz.
Oddball~
03-15-2005, 7:41 PM
The goldfish died already. And only larger plecos need a 55g-75g tank alone. Goldfish (depending on species), generally need more than a 10 gallon. Goldfish also do not need salt, if they did, it would be brackish. Anchor worms also feed on DEAD things or DYING things, so pulling them out will do nothing, really. Sorry for the flaming, but I don't want her to get bad ideas.
ImALittleFishy
03-15-2005, 8:36 PM
She has 2 other goldfish. Redcaps?
Plecos will become bigger, I am going by that.
Yes, ten gallon is the smallest.
1teaspoon per 5 gallons is recommended by most( I use auarium salt, not sea salt don't know if there is any diffence, if both are idonized or not. But salt is always conversational. To my understanding it won't usually show on a hydrometer. Brackish (again to my understanding) usually involves a cup or so per 10g and use of sea salt?
By pulling out the anchor worms, I meant to throw them away, not keep them in the tank, LOL. Adults have a forked tail here is a site for them http://homepage.ntlworld.com/duncan.griffiths//lernaea.htm
No worries Odball. A flame is an attack on the person, not on the issue. You didn't attack the poster, just corrected the post.