My north florida cave-o-rama in planning...

esworp

Scuba-Dork
Mar 20, 2005
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I've got a 40 gal planted setup going nicely; pop-bottle CO2 working well and saving up for breaking into the >2WpG light arena soon enough. I've been giving a lot of thought to a concept biotope-ish (i don't feel qualified enough to really use the word biotope) setup...

Let's back up and do an introduction: I've decided to get into the planted tank scene as a result of being a technical cave diver in Northern Florida. My hopes are to eventually model the tank into a half-cave and half-planted northern florida biotope. Should be a breeze getting flora, since it's usually snagged in my gear by the time I slog to shore after the dives. (even if my chemistry is so bad that everything dies in a week, it'll just give me more reason to hit the caves. sweet!).

I've got some really hefty limestone formation rock (note: removing rocks from caves, dry or underwater, is not only unethical and probably illegal, but is also a frigging PITA. I just grab my snorkel after the dive and go dig some up further downstream from the cave opening), which I expect to glue together to form the overhead half of the tank. That should make those blind tetras happy, eh?

(Another note: I DO NOT condone the display of protected cave fauna such as blind salamanders, crayfish, catfish, etc.. just to get that it out in the open. Part of me worries that creating interest in cave ecosystems is one more step towards harvesting.. the other part of me just wants a cool-*** aquarium)

OK! So all that brings me to my questions:

1. How does one know how much weight a tank (and stand) can handle? I've read that using materials, like plastic egg crating, under the sustrate to dissapate heavy loads evenly over the bottom of the tank is a Good Thing, but there's /got/ to be a limit, right? I'm not in front of my tank right now, but my mind's eye measures something around a quarter-inch on the sides (and we'll assume the bottom is the same) of glass in the typical 40-gallon rectangle shape. Since /some/ of the weight will be fixed to the sides of the tank, I have to worry about the stand, too; seems sturdy enough, for something iron and welded.

2. what's the best non-flexible adhesive for aquarium use? I'll be gluing rocks to the glass to form the ceiling/background/blahblah.

3. Know of any other commercially availible cave-ish creatures? I've got the cave tetras, a heap-o'-mysis shrimp (close enough to the white ones in the caves), and a couple of newts will be added once the rock ceiling gives them something to get thier terrestial fix. I can already imagine a little marshy carpet of terrestial moss on top for 'em!

4. Can I affix flattened moss balls to the 'cave' opening rocks underwater with filament and expect it to attach itsself? Know of any plants that don't mind growing upside-down in the shade?


Some expectations: the limestone will probably goof with the hardness, to be sure.. We'll see about that one. The cave portion will allow a lot of crud to settle in it, also. Maybe simulating the normal outbound flow of water from the cave with my canister filter outlet hose will keep stuff out of the more-constricted opening, but still calm enough in inner, more open (larger diameter) portion towards one end of the tank.


Some imagery, to get the idea across:
http://www.floridasprings.com/images pages/peacock.html A diver at the opening of a spring
http://www.floridasprings.com/images pages/ichriver.html some of the flora
http://www.northerntechdiver.com/gallery/cavedive2001/cavedive2001-6.php good example of what the caves looks like (none are the same, really). Note that the bottom is comprised of 1/2 to 3 feet of silt that ranges from clay to super-puffy talcum power consistancies.
 
Whoa Esworp !!

Neat idea, hope it works for you.....ever think of making something like that with cement ? There's some folks here that have tanks set right into thier wall...one of them is over 3,000 gallons...lol...the other is something like 2 or 300 gallons, can't remember. The smaller tank is set up for discus and has 3 built in caves in it...the very large one has pakus in it...8 foot pakus !! (*$Kaching $ Kaching$*)
 
Emg said:
Whoa Esworp !!
(*$Kaching $ Kaching$*)

Hah. Money definitely plays a role here! I started out asking "How can I make my lights go twice as far?" and figured that I could make half the tank a pitch-black environment.

I made a promise to myself that i'd never use any kind of 'fake rocks'. Cement counts as fake, and more importantly, is much denser (and fossil-less) than the limestone found in the springs.
 
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Well, I was thinking of using the cement as a base to cement your rocks to...so you wouldn't have to worry so much about it breaking on you...but, either way, it sure would be a rather expensive job...lol....

When you do figure something out...do make sure to come back and show us some pics !!! I'd love to see them !
 
oh, using the cement (you mean cement as in concrete, right?) to glue the rocks together. Duh. Good idea!

Maybe I've forgotten something, but why do you mention that it would be expensive? I mean, I got the rocks, tank, fauna (i collect the plants myself...), and filtration. The only thing i don't have is enriched substrate, and adequate lighting. The substrate will be costly, but I'm hoping I can find a way to mount a CF fixture that is intended for a tank half my size since I won't need to be lighting the cave half anyway.
 
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I recently moved from FL there at Gainesville, sort of the central cave diving region. Any spring will do as far as a biotope.

You can see a locally collected fish/driftwood/plants here:
http://www.aquatic-plants.org/gallery/Plantfest-2K4
See my aquariums.

You can use lace rock elsewhere which looks like many formations.

If you really want to be creative with the cave idea, I would suggest using the Cypress knees as stalagmites/stalactites and siliconing those in place, and using moss to emulate the "speleogensis" fungi that coats many of the caves there.

These are lightweight and the right size and much easier to work with that limestone (see Tom's in Waldo, FL for a local source). Any limestone will work, you need not take it from a cave entrance.

If you have a chiller, some local animals may work but check with fish and game, most cave fauna is protected.

Unless you have AC or a chiller etc, most temps will kill many of the local spring fish. The mexican cave fish work well.
the FL darter is a nice fish, L goodie, Flourders, pipefish (must feed live foods only, very tough to keep alive) madtom cats, pan fish, gar, or mullet:-)
A number of killi fisha dn shiners are a bit more rare, the pygmy sunfish is gorgeous and can be found in the Santa Fe river there.


Hope this helps.

Regards,
Tom Barr

PS

If you check the NSS numbers, you'll note my dad's extremely low number.
 
alright! thanks for the info. Nice to bump into another diver, particularly someone with aquarium chops!

I like the idea about using cypress knees as cave formations; i bet it'd look cool, but all of caves I've dove (Peacock, Ginnie, Jackson Blue, Stoplight, Twin Caves) are dissolution formed, i think vasdose is the geological term. The water sculpts them, as opposed to evaporation in terrestrial caves. After getting your hands cut up on a fast-current system, you /wish/ for a nice, smooth stalagmite!
 
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