View Full Version : Need ID of these worms
Sumpin'fishy
11-30-2002, 9:56 PM
I have a 55 gal with a Blackbelt, a Jack Dempsey, an Electric Blue Crawfish, and a Sailfin Pleco. All are in the 4 to 5 inch range. I use a Top Fin 300 gph HOB filter and a Magnum HOT canister. I use only the two striplights which came with the hood and tank. I do weekly 50% water changes. I feed twice daily mixed diet, and only what they eat in about 2 to 3 mins at a time.
Problem:
I have continuously had infestations of two or three different kinds of worm-like creatures in my tank (and any tank my fish have grown up in). One of the species appears like tiny 1 to 2 mm white threadlike worms which cling to the glass. They move about fairly quickly when the want to. I have read similar posts and assume these are harmless "planarians". I've cut back my feedings and the worms still remain, but they are not overrunning my tank.
The other worms appear in the water column itself, not ever on the glass. They do a very distictive spiral dance as the move about the tank with the water current. They are silvery (reflect light) and almost do like a small tornado would do as it spins. They are usually about 5mm long and maybe 1mm thick with little ribbs all along the body (like a snakes belly looks). Large ones can get to MAYBE 7 1/2mm, but that's pushing it! My Blackbelt seems to eat them when he notices them. These have also found their way into my cycling ten gallon tank with all new equipment. The only used thing was the gravel, which has been bagged in a ziplock for many months. The gravel was dried, then sealed air-tight!
The third type is about 7mm to 1cm long and appear brown/earth colored and threadlike. They float through the water column also and do a dance which looks like a very quick figure 8 or something! They only do this "figure eight twitch" some of the time, otherwise floating generally motionless. My Blackbelt also takes nipps at these.
All these worms are starting to flourish again and take over my tank. The only ones who seem to be staying the same are the "planarians". But they could increase in numbers quickly.
I have treated my tanks with Coppersafe numerous times in the past 9 months since I've had the fish. They dissappear for a while, then come right back. WHY??? Any help would be most appreciated. Thanks
Sumpin'fishy
11-30-2002, 10:43 PM
Please, anybody know anything about these pests? I really need and want to deal with these creatures once and for all! They ruin my tank setups!
crenicichla
11-30-2002, 10:49 PM
there wont be proper identification without a picture being provided.
Planarians, nematodes, non-parasitic leeches, etc. are generally symptoms of excessive organics (fish food, fish poop, and all the infusorians that live on these) in the substrate (especially) and in the water column and at the water surface (secondarily). Increase you vacuuming, decrease the depth of your substrates, and get your nitrates down to 10ppm and these populations will decrease and crash.
Sumpin'fishy
11-30-2002, 11:58 PM
I vacuum heavily every week when I do a 50% water change. My gravel is roughly pea sized and it's only 1 1/2" deep. I have plenty of large boulders and wood though. My nitrates in the main tank are rarely above 20ppm. I do my water change tomorrow and I just did a nitrates test. My readings right now are: 15 ppm
The main reason I don't understand their outbreak is because they are now everywhere in my 10 gal tank. I've just bought this tank and started cycling it 3 weeks ago! I add ammonia daily to it and the nitrates are over 100ppm all of the time, unless I just did a water change. It's almost through cycling. I just added double the dose of Coppersafe. There is nothing in it except bacteria, so I don't see a prob with overdosing copper, do any of you? Think I may go with this for 2 weeks like this and make sure it's well cycled and well coppered!
Think I'll raise the temp to about 85 or so also!
With these precautions listed above, what can I do differently? I really don't want to have to vacuum every day or even every other day. Weekly seems plenty to get rid of junk. Am I fooling myself? I just hate for this to turn into a hassle to keep up with!
If I do have too much poop, what would you suggest doing about it? I won't give up my two fish, right now they have plenty of room in a 55 gal. Getting a 75 for later. My crawfish doesn't poop much. On the other hand my Sailfin Pleco poops like it's going out of style (which is pretty typical of these fish). What would you suggest getting in it's place to eat algae, if I do get rid of the poop-machine?
Thanks again for input.
wetmanNY
12-01-2002, 12:10 AM
I'm sorry these tiny invertebrates seem like pests. Usually only planted tanks have a wide range of such interesting members of the micro-community. Your Jack Dempsey knows what they're good for!
I wonder if the second worm you describe is a Naid? Your eyesight must be incredibly sharp, to see their segments. Try a www.google.com search for Naid or Naidid.
Aeolosomatid worms are also candidates.
A word in defense of these critters and others on the edge of invisibility. These are your plankton. They spend their time gobbling bacteria, ciliates, diatoms, detritus, and the free-floating algal cells and green euglenoids that would turn your water green if they were left to themselves to multiply. For perfectly clear water, they are the natural alternative to UV light, hydrogen peroxide, potassium permanganate, copper sulfate and diatom filtration.
A problem with copper is that if the pH ever drops, bound copper in your system can become soluble and toxic again, and you might have unexplained deaths. My own water's too soft ever to be using copper.
Sumpin'fishy
12-01-2002, 12:35 PM
Thanks, I'll look these up online and reply later. Any other input is welcome. I'm doing my water change today, so any advice soon would be nice!
When you vacuum, are you able to get the siphon end all the way to the bottom glass? My suspicion is that your coarse gravel is serving as a reservoir.
eywses
12-01-2002, 3:32 PM
The only experience with worms in my tank I've had was when I was cycling. I had little thin brown worms that seemed to be growing from the green slimy stuff that would accumulate under the hood. I would pick the worms out and feed them to the fish. They loved em! After my tank cycled, they disappeared. I haven't seen them since.
I can't offer much in the way of experience, but here's what I would do- Stop feeding the fish for a few days (if they're healthy, it won't hurt them. I'd say 3-4 days), then do a generous water change and a thorough gravel vaccuming. By not feeding the fish for a few days, maybe the fish will start eating the worms more, plus you're lowering the nutrients in the water that the worms feed on. The worms are most likely not going to hurt your fish (if they were parasitic, they'd be on or inside your fish, not free-swimming). I would also not add any more Coppersafe to your tank. You may do more harm than good in the long run. Hope this helps some.
Erin
Sumpin'fishy
12-01-2002, 5:41 PM
Man, I've read hundreds of websites and articles on parasites and not one of them describes the worms I'm dealing with. That's a good thing, I guess! Problem is, that the other web sites about Naidid and Aeolosomatid that I was refered to describe what I have either. Everything those articles (and related articles) described were not visible to the naked eye. Mine are small, but NOT microscopic. Two of the types I have are about 5mm long (half centimeter, or half width of your pinky nail). One is even pretty thick (compared to length) which is about 1mm. This is the metalic, ribbed one that spirals through the water. My fish don't seem to be flashing off the rocks or anything, so I'm assuming they are basically harmless.
I think for now I will try to cut back to feeding my fish only once a day, effectively half as much as before. I'll see what happens then.
Just to answer the question, yes I vacuumed all the way to bottom glass of aquarium, but I don't get under the large rocks and wood every time, so maybe they come from there. I'll try to starve them! Should I get something else in place of my Pleco? He drops poop longer than he is! It seems like it's mostly his poop that I vacuum up. Thanks again.
The small nearly transparent squiggly ones sound like midge larvae, of which there are many kinds (I've heard "bloodworms" used to refer to a ton of different beasties, including one kind of midge larvae which is red, but midge larvae don't necessarily look anything like bloodworms.) I have some very similar to yours in my tank, about 5 mm, hard to see. The spirally figure-8 dance is characteristic. If you look REALLY close, see if you can see a slightly darker head at one end and a couple tiny bristles at the other, they're actually not as worm-like as they look at first glance, one end is slightly thicker.
Took me a while to identify these in my tank. The tip-off was the coincidental appearance of tiny green flies, like miniature mosquitos, here and there in the house. Not all are green. Most are small and resemble mosquitoes, but not many bite.
Most midge larvae, when not squiggling in the water, construct little snug-fitting tunnels made from some sort of silky material on rocks, wood, and sometimes the glass. Very hard to see if there is algae, as the tunnels match... they lie flat against surfaces and look like little raised lines 1-2 cm long. The larvae pokes out one end and scarfs down algae and debris.... they clean a little patch on whatever the tunnel is on. I'm sure mine have tunnels in the gravel but are impossible to see. Easy to see on some of my rocks, though, and there are some on the driftwood.
They are totally harmless, and since they are eating very minute particles of algae and detritus it doesn't mean your tank is dirty, just normal ;). Fish will eat the free-swimming ones. I am going to experiment with moving some kuhlis into my infested tank to see if they will clean up the ones in the tunnels.
Eventually they pupate inside the tunnel, come out and make it to the surface, where they fly off. My infestation started in an open-top tank where I noticed the flies hanging around. I have tried reducing mulm, debris, algae, etc. and they are still there, so it may be something that has to run its course. I'm not sure how long they remain as larvae.
Does that help (or does that sound like them?) They are NOT parasites of fish in any way. I will let you know how my colony progresses :)
O-man21
12-03-2002, 5:19 PM
I've had this problem too, and I have it now, but I only have the ones on the glass. I scrape them off with a strait razor but ehy just come back, even after I changed 75% of the water, I didn't feed him for 2 days ether. I don't know what to dO!!!!
Well the planaria (white crawlers on the glass) are always said to appear when there's excess food, etc., but in my experience they appear when they want to appear, and go away when they want to go away. I've done the scrupulous cleaning/underfeeding/vacuuming/water change thing, and they will sometimes get better, sometimes worse. Then they'll disappear spontaneously when you don't expect it.
So I suspect there is another parameter involved, too, something they like or dislike that we don't know about yet.
O-man21
12-03-2002, 5:26 PM
I agree
Wippit Guud
12-03-2002, 5:30 PM
Well, here's a pic of a planaria, look anything like these?
http://members.aol.com/larval1/flatw1a.jpg
The 'tornados' sound a little like hydra...
You guess is as good as mine for the brown ones...
O-man21
12-03-2002, 5:41 PM
yea mine look exactly like that
wetmanNY
12-03-2002, 7:20 PM
Excellently cool, O keely!
carfey
12-03-2002, 9:32 PM
I have the second kind of work you described that lives in the water column and comes about half a centimetre long. My gouramis eat them whenever they see them and they don't seem to hurt anything so I'm not worried.
Sumpin'fishy
12-03-2002, 9:36 PM
Yes, the planaria on the glass look like that, although My eyes don't magnify that well :) The other worms could very well be some sort of fly/mosquito larvae, although I haven't had the tip-off you have of seeing them flying around the house. The silver spinners especially look like mosquitos without wings. I'm gonna try the diet thing to cut back the colonies, I'll let ya all know how it works out.
kveeti
12-03-2002, 9:50 PM
Ask for a microscope for Christmas! This is a neat site, might help you identify something (or not), there's a section on worms:
http://www.microscopy-uk.org.uk/pond/index.html