no mouth

[friendorfoe]

My luck has not been good with mollies! I had one die, cause unknown. Another has gray patches on her side. And now i am noticing another seems to be missing her top lip and not swimming around much. The dead one died a pretty long time ago. The grey patched one has been qt-ed for 2-3 weeks. What should i do about the newest case? What is wrong with this fish? should I qt it? Could there be another reason why this fish is acting sluiggish?

Ammonia-.25
Nitrate-20-40
nitrite-0

Please help

[SCU33ZE]

lol no upper lip oooh boy your fish must be having wet t shirt contests haha no am j/k i dunno here grey patch,,,,,,levels,,,,cant be ich grey?
ME CONFUSED ME DONT NOT make sense here


frankly i dont know what going on here thats strange ,,i use to have mollies in an uncontrolled parameter plastic bowl and they lived fine for like 1 yr

[Harlock]

Tank mates? Also, are you sure about the ammonia? A cycled tank, especially one that has had fish removed rfom it, should not be showing any ammonia.

[Harlock]

lol no upper lip oooh boy your fish must be having wet t shirt contests haha no am j/k i dunno here grey patch,,,,,,levels,,,,cant be ich grey?
ME CONFUSED ME DONT NOT make sense here


frankly i dont know what going on here thats strange ,,i use to have mollies in an uncontrolled parameter plastic bowl and they lived fine for like 1 yr
Not to be rude, but if you can't contribute, don't waste her time posting and cracking jokes. Also, mollies living one year is shameful. Why brag about killing fish by keeping them in a crappy environment? That's a rhetorical question, don't bother answering.

[friendorfoe]

Tank mates include 1 swordtail one other molly and 4 cories. The tank is not completely cycled....but i got my fish before know about this website and about the chemistry behind good fish keeping. I do two daily 40% water changes though so that my levels do not get too high.

[Harlock]

Okay. Well at this point all I can figure is a tussle with another fish. It will be hard medicating or doing anything else during the cycle. Cycles always stress fish and so do meds. Also, some antibacterials can kill your beneficial bacteria. At this point, I would try Melafix (never thought I'd hear myself recommend it). It's a homeopathic medication, but many people swear by it. It is supposed to aid in healing and "soothe" fish. At this point, I don;t think you have anything to lose.

[friendorfoe]

I just read a little on melafix and it says

"Melafix (1% concentration) by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals is labeled as an all natural botanical antibacterial remedy made from tea tree extract. It contains melaleuca.


Heals open wounds and ulcers

Rapidly restores damaged fins

Stops mouth fungus (Flavobacterium, formerly a.k.a. Flexibacter)

Treats fin and tail rot

Treats eye cloud

Does not affect pH

Safe for snails and other invertebrates in fresh and salt water

Safe for live aquarium plants

Will not harm the biological filter

The correct doseage for Melafix as a disease or wound treatment, or when adding new fish to the aquarium, or as a preventative after netting and handling fish, is 1 teaspoon for every 10 gallons. Repeat dose daily for 7 days. After 7 days, make a 25% water change. Treatment can be continued longer if necessary."

In this it says to only do a water change on day 7 but my tank cannot go that long with out a change, because it is cycleing. Any ideas on how to handle this?

[Harlock]

Yip, just add it with every change. It's not likely to be cheap, but I know some people swear by it and it's ability to help fish heal from wounds and fin damage.

[friendorfoe]

Actually i just price checked on big als and it doesn't seem too bad. 5 bucks for an 8 ounce. I hope to give it a try! But i have one more question first. Is it safe to use in my aquarium? Even if my other fish are not infected?

[chrisinha]

i've used melafix many times for injuries and fin rot and it really helped. i always have a bottle at home. my first tank was also cycled with fish (i had no idea that a tank needed to be cycled at that time) and i used melafix during the cycling. just as harlock said, put the medicine back every time you do a water change.

[Vyper]

I'd personally add some salt to your tank, Mollies desire if not need some salt in the water and most molly problems get much better if not disappear when you add salt, go for the ratio 1 tablespoon per 5 gallons. And to be perfectly honnest unless your water levels are going crazy I think 2 daily water changes of 40% seems a lot, are you treating the new water you add ?. How far is your tank from finishing its cycle ?

[friendorfoe]

My tank is probably 1/2 way through its cycle. The water i use in my tank is reverse osmosis. In which a do add salt and i match water temperature. Also i test my water levels daily.

[Harlock]

I'd personally add some salt to your tank, Mollies desire if not need some salt in the water and most molly problems get much better if not disappear when you add salt, go for the ratio 1 tablespoon per 5 gallons. And to be perfectly honnest unless your water levels are going crazy I think 2 daily water changes of 40% seems a lot, are you treating the new water you add ?. How far is your tank from finishing its cycle ?
That's a popular myth. Mollies neither desire nor need salt in their tanks. And, if you are suggesting regular Freshwater or Aquarium salt (NaCl) then you really don't understand how the salt is supposed to help. In truth, mollies do well in hard, alkaline water. You could add plain NaCl to soft water and it would not do anything at all to help a molly out.

Additionally, twice daily 40% water changes is alot, but she is cycling her tanks and showing .25 Ammonia, which is well into the toxic range. As to how far a tank is from finishing a cycle, how is she supposed to predict that? The truth is that there are so many variables in a cycle like temperature, amount of seeding material, pH crashes etc that it is really hard to predict the length of one.

Please don;t give advice based on anecdotal evidence that might be dangerous to somenoe's pets. There is a wealth of scientific and well researched information out there just for the asking. In fact, follow this link (http://www.aquasource.org/CMS/modules.php?op=modload&name=Sections&file=index&req=viewarticle&artid=54&page=1) to Robert T. Ricketts' (he goes by RTR here on the boards) article about the salt myth. Here's a link (http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/salt.shtml) to the Skeptical Aquarist, a very decent site loaded with information. Salt, contrary to popular belief is a stressor for fish. It does not soothe them. Why stress already injured fish, especially those doubly stressed because they are going through the pains of cycling as well?

[TrickyD119]

I've got an additional question though Harlock.

Doesn't 20-40ppm of nitrate seem extremely high in a tank with such frequent water changes?

Is it possible for nitrates to be as high as 40 out of the tap? And if so, is it harmful at 40?

I honestly don't know, I just thought it looked high based on what I've read about where I should keep mine.

[Harlock]

Well, she gave a range, 20-40. I assumed her test kit listed it that way. Also, since she said she is using RO water, she isn't adding nitrates that way, as far as I know.

Friend or Foe, why are you using RO, by the by? Mollies appreciate hard water. Also, unless you are using additives like RO Right or something, you can be setting yourself up for a pH crash because RO water should be fairly low in buffers.

[friendorfoe]

I use the reverse osmossis because my water is really hard. It is well water and the last time i check it was about 400-500 ppm. I take a one gallon milk jug when i do water changes i use about 2/3 to 3/4 ro water then i use normal tap water to warm it to tank temp. This way i do not have to use water so hard. We have a water softener and that is the reading after being softend.

[Harlock]

Heh, the well water may not be so bad. I use water straight from my tap with pH of 7.8, KH 120 and GH at 420 ppm. My mollies love it. Anything else just has to be aclimated slowly, but since I buy all ofmy fish locally and we all use the same water, the fish usually come to me already used to such water. Of course, if you don't mind mixing RO, it's not exactly a bad thing to do, just make sure your KH and GH are in decent ranges.

[daveedka]

This way i do not have to use water so hard. We have a water softener and that is the reading after being softend.

a couple of things that may help you a bunch,
the first one is that if I understan water softeners correctly, they exchange Sodium ions for Calcium and magnesium ions which actullay increases your total solids (takes twice as many sodium to replace the other two or smething like that) so in the true sense of soft water, your water has less in it before it goes through the softener, and would be better for your fish. the Misnomer with water softeners comes from the term hard and soft which means resistance to sudsing of soap and really has nothing to do with true mineral or TDS content

Mixing Ro isn't a bad thing for Reducing both Kh and GH when it is really necessary, but with mollies you are kind of shooting yourself in the foot. they like lots of junk in their water so to speak. I would suggest first that you find a source previous to the softener to get your tank water, and then Figure out how much Ro to mix so that you read medium to slightly high Gh. This I would think would be great for mollies.

something else that just occured to me is what type of Softener salt are you using. I think there are some magnesium salts on the market that don't add sodium but rather replace Ca with Mg, I am not completely sure of this so further research would be good, but if that is the case, your Gh kit picks up on both Ca and MG and would likely show your water as still being really hard when it emeges from the depths of the softener.
Dave

[friendorfoe]

I'm worried about adding water that is way too hard also because of my cories. Does anyone have cories in very hard water?

[daveedka]

I haven't tried that, but imagine they would adjust. But what I'm trying to point out is that your water after the softener is harder on them than the water before the softener. in true terms it's the Total dissolved solids that are the issue, and the softener adds solids, it doesn't remove them. Either way it probably has little to do with your current situation, but when you are done you may be able to provide beter water with more info.
dave

[Harlock]

You saw my stats above. I have 6 cories. They acclimated just fine.

[friendorfoe]

I've begun using the melafix am is it better to remove activated carbon?

[Harlock]

I've begun using the melafix am is it better to remove activated carbon?
Yes, it is according to the directions on the Melafix bottle. I would follow the manufacturer's instructions in that regard.