UV Sterilizers

[audio77]

i've read about these and kinda how they work. Does anyone use them? is it neccesary, what are the advantages or disadvantages of them?

!!!!!NEW TANK SHOULD BE IN NEXT WEEK!!!!!!!

[125gJoe]

Click on this Link (http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/sc_view.cfm?siteid=6&pCatId=4393), and that will give you some info on them. The one I use is in the middle of the link, Double Helix System.

[audio77]

i'm going to run a amiracle MR400 trickle and a mag drive pump. in this set up, where do i put the UV sterilizer? it looks like the rainbow lifegard would be the best one for my setup cause it apperas to be able to go inline. keeping me from needing anything else to hang on the tank, or any other hoses hanging in the tank. can someone tell me how/where it would connect. Is one of these things worth it?

[plantbrain]

There's only a few uses for these.
Disease and algal blooms.

Disease is seldom a problem if folks do water changes, don't overstock, quarantine etc. The down side to using one all the time is the fish get use to not using any immune system. Tranferring them to a tank without an UV may cause problems there.

Basically, they do not do any real good except for when the disease happens, which is rare at best if you take care of the animals, or when a bacteria/algae bloom happens and in both cases, you'll only need the UV during the 1-4 days it takes to get rid of it.

The rest of year(s) it'll sit idle. A lot of $ for something(80$+) that you don't use much.

No one needs one and most folks don't have one.
Using it all the time waste electricity, wears out the bulbs also.

To add one, you can make a U shaped pvc diverting channel and connect to the return pipe's water using 2 "T" connecters. Each one of the T's is an "in" and an "out". Place a ball valve in the middle of these T's along the return line. By turning off the valve, the water will be diverted to the U shaped line and the in/out of the UV.
You can slow the amount down that passes through the UV by letting more water bypass the U shaped line by simply opening the valve up some.

It'd be a good idea to add a ball valve to the return line either way.

Regards,
Tom Barr

[125gJoe]

One might consider a reason some don't use UV sterilizers is that they are not readily available. Of course cost is another. Mine has an 18 watt bulb which I don't consider a waste of electricity. I think these devices are good to use but - not a 'must have' item.

[MP]

If you consider them to be good, could you share with us the advantages your particular unit gave you?

[SamsonNY]

I have the double helix (like Joe) but, 36 watt by Custom Sealife.

Before installing it, my water parameters were fine, but the tank would continually suffer from bacteria / algae blooms.

After installing the UV, I have had crystal clear water ever since. That is the NUMBER ONE reason I have it.

The U.V. will kill (if properly installed) all free-floating bacteria and algae thus, no more bacteria / algae blooms.

For heavy bioload tanks (like my stingray tank), I think a U.V. is a definite plus for the filtration system. Many ray owners suffer from the blooms and are now considering U.V.s.

And, audio:
I have (like I replied in the other forum) the same w/d filter but, I use 3 Rio 2500 pumps. Two of them feed from the sump and go directly to the tank. The third pump feeds from the sump, then into the U.V. and then to the tank. I have the U.V. hanging (horizontally) under the tank (in the cabinet) right above the w/d.
The water should be mechanically filtered before going into the U.V. (which yours would do since it would go thru the w/d first before reaching your pump).
I guess if I had one pump (like your mag 12), I would set-up two "Y" valves (inbetween the pump and the tank) and run tubing from the first Y to the U.V. and then back to the second Y (and put a one-way valve in there somewhere).
OR, I would put a second (small) pump in the sump, feed the U.V. with this pump and then from the U.V., run a line to connect into the Mag 12's line that is going back to the tank.
OR, same as the second idea, but have the return line from the U.V. end right underneath the Mag 12's IN line so that it would grab that water and shoot it into the tank.

Hope this helped.

Richard.

[audio77]

thanks SAMSON, that really helps. i think the second idea would work without too much hassle. i found a diagram on the back of a rainbow box that showed the UV installed right behind the w/d. In other words,... out the pump(in the sump) right into the UV right into the tank. that sounds cheaper and simple, would that not work? :confused:

sorry, i'm not tryin to be a bone head
mike
:(

[SamsonNY]

No problem.

If I understand you correctly, you're set-up will be like this:

Mag12 (in sump) - Line going to U.V. - Line from U.V. going into tank.

If that's the case, the only problem is that the water flow will be too fast. I'm guessing here that the mag12 with about 5' of head (and going through the U.V.) will be around 800gph.

A U.V. is more efficient with the water flow much lower than that. It depends on the brand you buy, but basically, the longer each same "piece" of water is in the U.V., the longer the bulb has to kill the parasite/bacteria/algae, etc. The idea is to get the greatest "kill" ratio in one pass thru the U.V.

My Double Helix 36 watt is rated (if I remember correctly) most efficient between 100gph and 500gph. I estimate I'm sending water thru there at about 300gph.

If your flow is very slow, it will kill a lot but it will take a lot longer to kill everything in the tank. Too fast and it won't kill everything during one pass. Target the middle of your brand's recommended range.

[audio77]

gotcha, well i'll have to do some homework. big als online has great deals on the customsealife and the rainbow. sounds like the custom sealife has better coverage. i'll have to check the flow rates of them and match it up to my pump. maybe even drop a pump size to the 9.5. i'd much rather do it correctly now then try to work it into the system later, when its full of water and running with rays! i like the constant water changer, but no good way to do it, cause i built my house on a slab...:mad: oh well. maybe i'll plumb a drain line right out the side of the vinyl siding...!!!!!:D appriciate your help as usual samson

mike

[SamsonNY]

Originally posted by audio77
i like the constant water changer, but no good way to do it, cause i built my house on a slab...:mad: oh well. maybe i'll plumb a drain line right out the side of the vinyl siding...!!!!!:D appriciate your help as usual samson

mike

Funny you said that. I'm working on plans for my bigger tank right now. My current tank is in my l/r and there's a basement underneath so setting-up the constant water changer wasn't too difficult.
But, I want the bigger tank in the den (which is on a slab).
Running a clean water line isn't too bad, but the pvc drain line would be impossible to run from the den to my cesspool line.:mad:
So, I'm thinking about a drain line right out the side of the vinyl siding. :D

[FishmasteR2002]

Can you use one UV sterilizer for multiple tanks? I mean can the water be routed for it to support two tanks? I have a 29G and a 20G in my room and they are rather close that is why I ask because this is a very interesting product. Also is there a website with information on how this works? Sorry to bust in on your topic audio but I also have questions like you. :)

[SamsonNY]

Directly from each tank (not from sumps)?
It would be tricky and risky.
You might get uneven return flow rates meaning one tank would drain and the other would overflow.

Are the tanks very close so that you could attach a U tube between them to always keep water level the same in both tanks? (and, the tops of the tanks (IE: water level) would have to be the same height.)

[audio77]

no prob fishmaster.

samson, u really gonna try to do that?!!! not sure how i would sell my house with a hole goin right outside from the greatroom?! Just shoot a bunch of silicone up in there and call it patched!! mine is less than 25 feet from my kitchen, so i'll just have to deal with the python. how much did you pay for you leos?

[MP]

Before installing it, my water parameters were fine, but the tank would continually suffer from bacteria / algae blooms.

Well, I don't know what parameters you mean, but treating appendicitis with Tylenol is not a very good idea. Instead of dealing with symptoms, I'd suggest to find and eliminate the cause.

I do own a 25 W UV sterilizer for quite a few years. It was very helpful. Once.

My 25 tanks don't have the blooms you describe, the fish live and breed, and I see no reason to believe that this is due to the sterilizer that is collecting dust on a shelf. :)

Can it be helpful? Yes, of course! Is it something required or really needed in home aquaria? Not at all.

For those who wants to learn the subject in greater details, I can suggest reading Aquatic Systems Engineering by Pablo Escobal. Excellent reading for those who wants to install UV units!

[125gJoe]

Originally posted by MP
[B....Can it be helpful? Yes, of course! Is it something required or really needed in home aquaria? Not at all..... [/B]Yes... As I mentioned above. I do think they are great at helping the water stay "pristine" and pure... Not required though. :)

[SamsonNY]

audio,
$250 each. Love them. Very active and aggresive. Each one has his/her own personality and behave uniquely, especially when they see me enter the room.

MP,
Water parameters I was referring to:
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 30 (bare in mind my tapwater is 20!)
Ph: 7.0


Bioload in tank: excessive and I know it.
Bottom-line:
Before U.V.: tank would go from "pretty" clear (after a significant water change; 50% plus) to cloudy white to pea soup green within 7 days.
After U.V. (and before constant water change system installed): tank went to "CRYSTAL" clear in approximately 3 days and has stayed that way ever since! Bioload about the same (actually, a little higher). All other factors remaining equal!

And I agree with you, I would not treat appendicitis with Tylenol either. :p
I know the cause: heavy bioload. The solution, bigger tank or less fish. I won't go with the less fish option. Thus, I am working on the bigger tank option.

IN THE MEANTIME: a U.V. is more like a band-aid instead of an elimination of the cause. HOWEVER, it is a VERY effective band-aid. And, many ray owners are realizing just how heavy of a bioload a single ray is and are opting to use a U.V. so that their "beautiful" tanks stay beautiful.

A U.V. will only be a plus.
Is it necessary: NO.
Will it help: YES.
Will it cause any harm: NO.
If you can afford it and want the "extra" benefits, then go for it.

Richard.

[Matak]

Plantbrains' advice (above) is correct and his advice is always right on. However, I have always found that following his advice takes more understanding about water chemistry parameters, biological factors, etc. than I currently now know. I had a real problem with green water and fixed it by buying a diatom filter. It was a quick fix, I know, but my long term goal is to grow in understanding of what makes the whole thing tick so that I may be pro-active with fish disease, algae blooms, etc rather than reactive.

I believe that it should be every fish keepers goal to grow in their understanding of this hobby, for the sake of the fish and our enjoyment.

No offence to you, Tom Barr. I know more than I did before and much of that knowledge is due to your direct and indirect help. Thanx.

[superstein61]

Well, I won't debate the merits of a UV - I think that is something everyone needs to decide with their own tanks, care routine, circumstances, etc.

My basic opinion is:

Are they necessary - not in all cases
Can they help - yes, in some cases
Can they do harm - only to your wallet
Should you buy one - well you need to decide based on your needs and circumstances.

That said, I posted the following a few weeks ago on the DIY board about my Vecton UV Sterilizer:

Here is some good info here on kill rates and UV sizing:

http://www.tmc-ltd.co.uk/catalog/uv...sterilisers.asp

I ultimately chose the Vecton unit

http://www.tmc-ltd.co.uk/catalog/uv_filt/Vecton_UV.asp

I did this after all my reading (and was swayed by the guidance of some of the salt water guru's over at wetwebmedia.com). The folks who make the Vecton unit really got started in the commercial market (rather than many other companies which just focus on the consumer market).

the vecton unit is not widely sold in the US. You will see it is made in the UK - so not many hobbyists here know of it. You will not find it at Big Al's or most other online stores. I did however find it here:

http://www.fishsupply.com/cgi-bin/f...VZZ/SUVTM-UV025

now I went with the 25 Watt unit which is for tanks up to 150 gallons. the 15 watt unit is for tanks up to 115 gallons. However, if you look at the maximum flow rates for killing efficiency, the 25W unit is about 450gph versus about 340 gph for the 15W unit. Looking at my pump, I am moving about 375 to 400 gph - so I went with the higher rated unit. plus on sale, it was just $10 more

now, I am sure you could find some of the basic retail brands for $20 to $30 less - but I figured if I am springing for $100 or more- I might as well get the best quality and spend $130