Lots of foam/bubbles and high N-ates

F

f8ldzz

AC Members
Feb 26, 2005
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Honolulu, Hawaii USA
Sorry for the generic N-ates question, but they disabled the search function. :(

10G
3 small yellow labs
2 bandit corys
5 pepper corys
1 CAE
generic Regal HOB (looks like a Penguin Mini)
Penguin 170 bio-wheel
not planted, but several anacharis bunches with other plastic plants
UGF

Yes, the tank is overstocked. :P
I'm planning to move the yellow labs to a bigger tank soon.

I have a 18" bubble wand, and once I got a more powerful air pump to push that and the UGF, there is a persistant foaming at the top of the tank.
I did a recent water change (about 40%) + gravel vacuuming just two days ago, and it helped but it does not totally eliminate the foam.

I finally got around to getting test kits to test the water (pH, KH, N-ites, N-ates - no ammonia yet), and everything looked okay except the N-ates were through the roof.
Remember, I did a water change just two days ago.
pH = 8.0 (yeah, corys don't like it but the yellow labs should be happy)
KH = almost nil
N-ites = 0.25ppm
N-ates = scale only goes up to 160ppm, but it's easily at that level

Just to make sure, I tested the water straight out the tap - the N-ates are "0" from the tap, so it's the tank.

So, the tank is overstocked.
I've been backing off the feeding, as I knew I was overfeeding them before.
The fish has been getting this reduced diet for the past 2 - 3 weeks now.
The thing that puzzles me is after the water change, the N-ates are quite high - something I missed?

I'll try and do a water change every other day for this week and see if this helps.
This is about the only suggestion I've found trying to do a web search.
 
The water changes will remove the nitrates--if the plants are actively growing, they'll help some as well, but with an overstocked, heavily fed tank, frequent large water changes will be your best bet. The nitrates are not specifically harmful, but are indicative of high levels of other toxins less testable. At a guess, this includes lots of protiens, which are why you're having the surface scum build up that's bubbling. This should reduce as the organics are diluted via water changes. I would probably do 3 50% changes back to back, just to get everything down to lower levels, and then get into a routine that keeps them there (ie, get them below 15 ppm, then test and do changes as needed to keep them there).
 
Thanx for the great tips!

I managed to do 50% water changes 3x back-to-back and let the water settle down a bit.
The N-ates test came out to a safer 20ppm.
It looks like the foaming bubbles are gone for now.
I'll check back after work to see how everything looks in a few hours.

I'll hold back the feeding for the next several days also.
In the meantime, I'll keep track of all the other testing parameters I have test kits for.

Thanx again!
 
Toss the UGF?
Hmmm...I've never read anything bad about a UGF except now.
Is that why everyone recommends RUGF's?
Doh, what a bad time for the search function to be down. :(

I retested the N-ates, and it's stable at 20ppm right now after coming back from work.
I'll keep an eye on the N-ates for the next couple days and do additional water changes if needed.
The feeding is going to held back over the next couple days to see if that affects the N-ates testing also.

The foaming bubbles are minimized, but there is still a little bit along the front edge of the water surface.
This might be just all the water action from the bubble wall and the filters...
 
Maintenance on a UGF requires more frequent, deep, cleaning. Running RUGF, you prefilter to trap solids and prevent them from being forced into the gravel bed, keeping it cleaner. UGF are good, they provide a huge amount of biological filtration, but they do require more work on your part to keep them in good shape. They don't contribute to nitrates any more than any other mechanical filter that isn't cleaned frequently.
 
N-ates are still stable at 20ppm.

I picked up a Wardley's ammonia test kit and gave it a try.
Ammonia is nil. *whew*
There was a nice brochure on water quality, and it mentioned keeping nitrates under 60ppm.
It also mentioned nitrates not as nasty as some of the other stuff - i.e. nitrites and ammonia - stuff you guys already mentioned.
So maybe I've getting a bit paranoid about the N-ates?

It also mentions getting more plants drop N-ate levels.
I'd much rather do that than dump chemicals into the tank. :(

Fish are on their 2nd day of no food, so it's just another day on their "diet".
I'll keep testing the water over the next few days and see if they change after I restart the feeding.
If I got the time, I'll try and do another water change tomorrow to see if the N-ates do go down a little bit more.

Maybe the UGF is keeping the N-ates at their current levels.
Hey, at least the N-ites and ammonia levels are nil. :)

Thanx again for all the replies.
 
its not the nitrates you need to worry about but that when you test for them you know if there are problems that you can not test for in our level of lab in a home. ie protiens, growth inhibiting hormones, etc. I would be a bit more strict than the pamplit you picked up and agree keep below 20 or at 20 ppm. better to have cleaner water than dirtier.
 
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