Ok, so my roommate recently had a tank given to him. Neither one of us had ever owned an aquarium before and we made some obvious newbie mistakes. I have done a ton of reading since then and have become quite fascinated with the hobby. So I have a few basic questions. First of all, we learned about cycling the tank the hard way, and have now pretty much locked ourselves into a fishy cycle. So just had the water tested a few days ago and the amonia was between 4 and 6 so it is coming along properly (i think). My roommate originally bought 4 fish, of which only the Plec is left. On top of having to deal with the cycling, another newbie mistake my roomy made was purchasing his fish from Wal-mart. So this poor guy is covered in Ich. He seems to be very tough and has outlasted the other fish that were bought with him by several days. A few days later we added a handfull of goldfish for the cycling. So I would like to try to increase his chances of surviving the cycle and was wondering A) if we should be doing water changes during the cycle (if so could someone please give me at least a somewhat detailed description of doing a water change or point me to one). B) can we treat for the Ich during cycling? Because I was thinking about doing a salt bath that I read about and I have already turned up the heater in hopes of bringing the temp up closer to 80. I really have more questions but I want to keep this post to a readable length so I will ask those later in this thread or start another. Thanks in advance for any and all help it is greatly appreciated. This site has already provided me with a wealth of information and it is definately appreciated.
A few beginner questions.
- Thread starter BuZz
- Start date
Yes, daily water changes--you want to keep ammonia under 1 ppm.
Still have the goldies? If so, return them--they are not suitable for a tropical tank.
How big is the tank? Less than 55--return the plec too, and do a fishless cycle. Ich will then die during the 4-6 week fishless period.
Otherwise--raise the temp to around 85, and add salt (there's a great thread on ick in the articles forum). You'll have to replace salt as you do water changes, but it won't harm the cycling process.
Still have the goldies? If so, return them--they are not suitable for a tropical tank.
How big is the tank? Less than 55--return the plec too, and do a fishless cycle. Ich will then die during the 4-6 week fishless period.
Otherwise--raise the temp to around 85, and add salt (there's a great thread on ick in the articles forum). You'll have to replace salt as you do water changes, but it won't harm the cycling process.
Yikes! Test your water daily. You want to keep your ammoina below 0.25 and nitrits below 0.25 during your cycle. To get this you need to be doing water changes...BIG water changes. Water changes are easy, get a gravel vac, stick one end in the tank, the other in a bucket, and prime it. I have no clue how to prime it because I use a Python. Read what OG said for more info.
Hrmm
I hear so many conflicting opinions. So, here's a little more info, we are about 2 weeks into the cycle. It's a 29g tank and unfortunately I dont have any info about the filter, etc because the whole setup was given to my roomie by his dad. I was under the impression that the ammonia would spike like this before the bacteria build up and start consuming it. As I mentioned this is my roommates tank, and in addition to me getting info here, he has been getting advice from the guy at our LFS who says he has been doing this for 41 years. He's the one who sold us the goldies to "cycle" the tank, he's also the one who tested the ammonia (between 4 and 6) and said that it was coming along nicely. So I realize some people think a fishy cycle is inhumane, but for now we are going to have to put that aside because I highly doubt my roommate is going to return any of these fish(because the LFS advised him to get them). So as for the water changes, two things I'm a little uncertain about. 1) The water is supposed to be as close to the temp of the tank as possible, is this just done by "guesstimation" and using hot tap water? or is there a better way? 2) Is it ok to put the water in the tank and then use the dechlorinator or should it be declorinated before going in the tank? I also was hoping to find some general information on different types of setups. By this I mean, I keep hearing mention of community tank, but really nothing on specifics. I've gathered that this means a tank full of peacefull fish that for the most part all get along, no carnivores, no aggressive fish. So if that is correct, then what would be the other types of setups (I'm guessing, semi-aggressive, aggressive, and solitary or something along those lines). i am going to start the salt bath and water changes today. And thanks much for all the info, help, etc.
I hear so many conflicting opinions. So, here's a little more info, we are about 2 weeks into the cycle. It's a 29g tank and unfortunately I dont have any info about the filter, etc because the whole setup was given to my roomie by his dad. I was under the impression that the ammonia would spike like this before the bacteria build up and start consuming it. As I mentioned this is my roommates tank, and in addition to me getting info here, he has been getting advice from the guy at our LFS who says he has been doing this for 41 years. He's the one who sold us the goldies to "cycle" the tank, he's also the one who tested the ammonia (between 4 and 6) and said that it was coming along nicely. So I realize some people think a fishy cycle is inhumane, but for now we are going to have to put that aside because I highly doubt my roommate is going to return any of these fish(because the LFS advised him to get them). So as for the water changes, two things I'm a little uncertain about. 1) The water is supposed to be as close to the temp of the tank as possible, is this just done by "guesstimation" and using hot tap water? or is there a better way? 2) Is it ok to put the water in the tank and then use the dechlorinator or should it be declorinated before going in the tank? I also was hoping to find some general information on different types of setups. By this I mean, I keep hearing mention of community tank, but really nothing on specifics. I've gathered that this means a tank full of peacefull fish that for the most part all get along, no carnivores, no aggressive fish. So if that is correct, then what would be the other types of setups (I'm guessing, semi-aggressive, aggressive, and solitary or something along those lines). i am going to start the salt bath and water changes today. And thanks much for all the info, help, etc.
Last edited:
cyberbeer65
Scratch Glass!
The water that you are replaceing after a water change should be as close as possible to the temp of your tank water(you can get it within a degree or so just by touch)you also can add your dechlor to the tank as you are filling it back up.
You are going to want to get your ammoina level lower. At the rate it will kill off your fish. Also retuen the Pleco and the goldfish. They are already too big for your tank. Then if you can get some Bio-Spira and your full fish load. This stuff will cycle your tank in about a week. If you cant get it then try a fishless cycle. If your roommate is not willing to do this then get some Zebra Danios to replace your fish. These are really hardy and should last the cycle. However I am not recomending you to do this. The Bio-Spira and fishless cycle should be thought about first. But again, you must return all the fish you have now.
The water temp. should be at about the tanks temp. I use a mixture of hot and cold water to get it right. Most of us use a Python for water changes. It is a gravel vac with a tube that connects to the sink. No more buckets! Yes, you can add the dechlor directly to the tank after you have added the new water.
Becaue you are going to be doing a cycle you need a test kit. This is one of the best ones: Here
This way you can watch and record the levels your self. Your LFS guy dosent seem to smart and I would not listen to him any more.
The water temp. should be at about the tanks temp. I use a mixture of hot and cold water to get it right. Most of us use a Python for water changes. It is a gravel vac with a tube that connects to the sink. No more buckets! Yes, you can add the dechlor directly to the tank after you have added the new water.
Becaue you are going to be doing a cycle you need a test kit. This is one of the best ones: Here
This way you can watch and record the levels your self. Your LFS guy dosent seem to smart and I would not listen to him any more.
Ok
Ok, so I was already planning on picking up a Python and a testing kit tonight. I'm a little confused by the statement that the plec and goldies are too big for the tank. I truly wish I would have found this site BEFORE my roommate started this tank, but it was pretty much a spur of the moment thing. The tank was just set up when I came home from work one day, otherwise I would have made him do fishless cycle right from the get go. And now it appears as though we have made this tougher than it already is. Wouldnt it be a bad idea to do the bio-spira and full fish load considering Ich is currently present in the tank?
Ok, so I was already planning on picking up a Python and a testing kit tonight. I'm a little confused by the statement that the plec and goldies are too big for the tank. I truly wish I would have found this site BEFORE my roommate started this tank, but it was pretty much a spur of the moment thing. The tank was just set up when I came home from work one day, otherwise I would have made him do fishless cycle right from the get go. And now it appears as though we have made this tougher than it already is. Wouldnt it be a bad idea to do the bio-spira and full fish load considering Ich is currently present in the tank?
Make sure that your rommie understands that while the LFS guy has been doing this for years--we're not making any money off of him, and most people here really prefer to understand the science behind the process--not just hope things work and we don't kill fish. The information he's getting is 'old school' to say the least. Newer methods exist that won't harm the fish, and we encourage using them.
Yes, there are a huge variety of setups. Most people keep community tanks of some kind, simple becuase very few want a tank with just one species in it. There are a number of different types of community tanks, with varying levels of aggression, or with fish all from a specific environment (biotopes), or themed tanks (all barbs, all catfish, etc). Having fish that will occupy multiple layers of the tank is a good idea, and making sure that the territory and activity levels of your fish can be met is important, no matter what.
Yes, there are a huge variety of setups. Most people keep community tanks of some kind, simple becuase very few want a tank with just one species in it. There are a number of different types of community tanks, with varying levels of aggression, or with fish all from a specific environment (biotopes), or themed tanks (all barbs, all catfish, etc). Having fish that will occupy multiple layers of the tank is a good idea, and making sure that the territory and activity levels of your fish can be met is important, no matter what.
If you wash out your tank with a bit of bleach, change the filter media, wash everyhting out, and clean everything very well then you shouldnet have any more ick. Then you can go ahead with the fish and Boi-Spira. The Pleco needs at least a 55g tank and the goldies need 20g to start and 10g for each one after that.
Okay, let's put aside the fact that fishy cycling is inhumane. Let's look at some basic facts about cycling. For one, the bacteria, by forces of Brownian motion, fluid dynamics and some other scientific forces adhere to surfaces in your tank. This means gravel, decorations, filter media etc. These bacteria are not free swimming in the water column. If you have .25 or 4-6 ppm ammonia, it doesn't make them reproduce any faster. Any abundance of ammonia indicates they are unable to keep up. In this regard, you can easily see that by changing the water you are not harming your cycle, only preserving the fish. After all, as was stated above, losing the fish serves no end in cycling a tank. In fact, it means the bacteria have less ammonia upon which to feed, which means the tank will cycle to handle only X amount of fish, rather than X+1. What this means is that when you add your "real" fish, they may suffer through a mini-cycle which can reduce their lifespan, or worse, kill them while the bacteria struggle to keep up with the increased ammonia levels.
Trust me on this, everyone of us here has heard the "conventional LFS wisdom" which is neither conventional nor wise. When someone tells me they've been doing something a certain way for X number of years, it's a red flag. It means they have either heard there are new better ways and don't trust them for whatever reason or that they haven't bothered to look over the past X number of years research because they are lazy or set in their ways. Just a suggestion, do some homework. Ask around this forum. Go to google and look up all kinds of information and then see what you can find out. Then, armed with your information go to the LFS, buy what you need and ignore the bad advice. Simple as that.
Now, as for what is a community, well, just about any tank is a community. I find this term pretty confusing myself, so don't feel bad about it. I define a community as more than one animal in one tank. I then categorize it, Peaceful community, cichlid community, Biotope community, species tank, etc. There are truly as many setups as there are... fish in the sea maybe? It all depends on what you want, really. I like to look at my tank and relax. So, I strive for small colorful fish. I like them to have some personality, so I don't just want schools of neons. If I had cichlids, I'd have a real problem with them bullying each other. It's just not my thing. Right now in fact, I am looking for a new home for my head/tail light tetras because their pecking order is just too busy for my peaceful tank. On the other hand, my wife finds it amusing that there is an alpha tetra who swims throughout the tank making sure that the other 4 tetras stay in their places. one behind the right side filter uoptake, another against the left side glass behind a plant, two other hidden behind the Wisteria in the middle of the tank. To each their own.
Trust me on this, everyone of us here has heard the "conventional LFS wisdom" which is neither conventional nor wise. When someone tells me they've been doing something a certain way for X number of years, it's a red flag. It means they have either heard there are new better ways and don't trust them for whatever reason or that they haven't bothered to look over the past X number of years research because they are lazy or set in their ways. Just a suggestion, do some homework. Ask around this forum. Go to google and look up all kinds of information and then see what you can find out. Then, armed with your information go to the LFS, buy what you need and ignore the bad advice. Simple as that.
Now, as for what is a community, well, just about any tank is a community. I find this term pretty confusing myself, so don't feel bad about it. I define a community as more than one animal in one tank. I then categorize it, Peaceful community, cichlid community, Biotope community, species tank, etc. There are truly as many setups as there are... fish in the sea maybe? It all depends on what you want, really. I like to look at my tank and relax. So, I strive for small colorful fish. I like them to have some personality, so I don't just want schools of neons. If I had cichlids, I'd have a real problem with them bullying each other. It's just not my thing. Right now in fact, I am looking for a new home for my head/tail light tetras because their pecking order is just too busy for my peaceful tank. On the other hand, my wife finds it amusing that there is an alpha tetra who swims throughout the tank making sure that the other 4 tetras stay in their places. one behind the right side filter uoptake, another against the left side glass behind a plant, two other hidden behind the Wisteria in the middle of the tank. To each their own.