Newbie questions.

[BuZz]

My roommate recently set up a new 29g which prompted me to come to this site and start learning from the wealth of information provided here. I have become fascinated with this as a hobby especially cichlids. He is more than likely going to set up his 29g as a community tank. With our limited space if I wanted to set up a tank of my own it will be limited to a 10 or maybe 15g. Can I do anything with a tank this size as far a cichlids are concerned? I'm thinking Malawi, but I am definately open to suggestion. I was considering maybe a breeding pair or something like this, possibly something that would raise it's own fry so that I wouldnt require another tank for that. I realize breeding may not be best for a beginner, but I do learn fast. At this point though I am completely open to suggestion and know that there are some very knowledgable people here. So lets hear it. Oh as a side note I would prefer something nice and colorfull preferably with some red and or blue in it.

[~*LuvMyKribs*~]

Hmm... in a 10 or 15 gallon you cant get any Malawi cichlids, they get too large and aggressive. A 30 gallon tank is pretty much MINIMUM for the smallest and least aggressive Malawi cichlids, and thats pushing it... they should have a larger tank. They are very colorful, but dont raise thier own fry.

You could, however, go for a little group of Tangynikan Shelldwellers. They are less colorful, but thier personality makes up for it. They live in empty snail shells and form little colonies. They will somewhat look after the fry... they usually dont eat them.

You could also consider a pair of dwarf cichlids, such as German Blue rams (colorful), Bolivian rams, kribensis, apistogrammas, etc. With these fish you could also add some top-dwelling tetras and/or bottom feeders.

HTH
:)
-Diana

[BuZz]

Man, I really wish I could just go with a bigger tank, but since that is not an option, lets talk some more about these shellies. Not really as colorful as I would have hoped, but I realize the tank size limits me greatly. So, lets assume I get a 15 gallon. Should I just try for a breeding pair, or what would be a good load for a 15g with shellies? I'm guessing they might not breed if I try to put some community fish in there with them, would that be correct as well?

[~*LuvMyKribs*~]

Well, they are pretty aggressive little fish for thier size. No doubt any sort of bottom feeder will get its @ss kicked. You *could* try some danios, but fish from Lake Tangynika need a pH of above 8.0, which is very different from most community fish.

Do a good search for these guys, as there are several species. I have N. ocellatus "blue", and they can be quite pretty with a baby blue/purple sheen on thier bodies. There is also a yellow ocellatus variety, along with many other species.

I started with 5 ocellatus in a 10 gallon and the male killed off all but 1 of his females, but i have heard of people keeping several in a 10. In a 15 i would try for 1 male 3 females. Make sure to have sand, lotsa rocks, and at least 2 shells per fish.

:D
-Diana

[BuZz]

Awesome, thanks much for the info. I will have plenty of time to do research while I work on getting my tank and cycling it.

[BuZz]

I have a few more questions, I am definately becoming more interested in this genus. I have actually found a good place to get them that is not "too" far from where I am. About an hour drive give or take. First I'm going to share a couple websites(again) because I found them both from archives here. First is the store I mentioned http://www.wetthumbaquatics.com/fish_list.htm where I am most likely going to get my fish. And second is a site with some great info that I have some questions about. http://www.cichlidrecipe.com/shellweb/shell_intro.htm
The info on the website above suggest getting 6 of a single species for a 10g tank. But it sounds like the premise behind that is one of 2 things. 1) Is I will end up with a breeding pair (it sounds like there would be a chance I could get 2 breeding pair, is that true and would that be too much?) 2) That I could end up with a harem. But it also sounds to me like there's a good chance that I should plan to loose some of the 6 either way. Also is it does mention that a tough pleco, and/or?? some danios or neon's might be ok in this setup. So I guess it sounds like I could end up with about 4 or 2 of the shellies. So I'm wondering based on that how many of the others, if any, I could add bioload wise on a 10 gallon. Since space is more a factor than money and the tank is cheap, I'm not afraid to spend some more money on filtration if that helps bioload. I'm thinking of going with the meleagris but I guess I will have to wait and see what they have and what they actually look like in person.

[~*LuvMyKribs*~]

Well based on my experience i started with 5 and ended up with 2 the hard way, having the others killed off. But i have seen other people's setups that successfully keep more than 2 in a 10 gallon, so it really all depends on the fish. I would try for 4 or 5 fish, and if you notice any excessive aggression i would remove the victim (or the aggressor, whatever you choose). Remember there will be fighting initially to establish territory.

I'm not sure on the other fish added, but i would say a pleco would be too large for a 10 gallon anyways (even the small varieties), and without many plants you wouldnt need much light, thus you shouldnt have an algae problem. I wouldnt do neons as they are sensitive to water conditions. If you wanted to add some other sort of fish in there then i reccommend danios... they are hardy and fast so the cichlids can get them. I would advise against bottom feeders as they will get in the cichlid's way and get beat up for sure.

Also, it would be neat to get some Neothauma tangynesce (spelling?) shells, which are the shells native to lake tangynika that the cichlids use in the wild. I ordered some online and my ocellatus love them.

:)
-Diana

[BuZz]

Where did you order those shells from if you don't mind me asking?

[BuZz]

Ok I pretty much already know the answer to this, but if I made myself space and went with a 20g or maybe even 30g. Is there any chance I could put an african butterfly in with shellies or is the ph just too high? I'm guessing if the tank size was acceptable that he would be ok since he's a top dweller, but not sure of the water conditions.

[JSchmidt]

I ordered from Wet Thumb Aquatics several years ago, and I was very happy with the fish I rec'd.

Jim

[BuZz]

Ok so as I mentioned I'm basically a complete newbie when it comes to this stuff, although I do learn fast. So I'm pretty sure now that I will be getting a 29g tank. Even though this might allow me to get some bigger fish and go a different route, I think I'm gonna stick with the shellies. I've read that I might be able to put some Cyprichromis in there with them so I'm wondering numbers on fish now for these size fish in a 29g. Or I am also still wondering about going with just some of the shellies and an African Butterfly if that would be ok in the PH i would need for the cichlids. Also can someone suggest good hardware for a 29g, filter, heater etc, I'm prolly gonna go with crushed coral substrate.

[cyberbeer65]

Don't get what I got with a 29 gal......

[~*LuvMyKribs*~]

Remember shellies only really inhabit the bottom of the tank, so it might not be worth it to get the height of the 29 gallon. Try for a 20 gallon "long" tank, that would allow for maybe 6-7 shellies. (2 males max).

I'm not sure on the african butterfly fish, what pH do they like? They also will most likely be a target for the cichlids.

:)
-Diana

[BuZz]

African butterflies are top dwellers, but usually require just slightly over neutral PH from what I have read. Being top dwellers I didnt think they would be a problem with the shellies agression wise.

[~*LuvMyKribs*~]

Well it wont inhabit thier territory, but i can just picture the shellies looking at the long fins and saying "mmmm lunch!"

hehe
;)