Crazy algae problem! (please help ASAP)

[cgcaver]

I have a planted 55g with 2wpg on the plants and a AC500 doing the dirty work. I have an 5" oscar, 5" pleco, 7" ropefish. I leave the lights on for 8-10 hours a day. I do a weekly water 75%-80% water change, and at that time change the floss, and rinse the sponge/biomax. I have Flourish root-tabs in the sand for my plants, and when I do a weekly water change, I usually treat the water with a little Fe, K, Flourish, and Flourish Excel. My current water parems are:

7.6 PH
0 NH4
0 NO2
20ppm NO3
1.5ppm PO4

This is about 6 days past my last water change (which i planned on doing tomorrow).


So, here's my problem: a mere 2-3 days after I do my water change, my water begins to get pretty cloudy. Its mostly a whitish color if I look at it hard enough, then a day or two later it turns into more of a greenish color if I had to describe it. Towards the 4-5 day after the water change, I start to notice some green splotches on my glass. My pleco does a VERY good job of eating algae usually, so it doesn't ever get really really bad.

Now, here's my question. What the heck kinda algae is this? Why can't I ever get the "good" kinda like beard/carpet algae LOL. I have nice drift wood and porous statues in my water, why cant THEY ever get some good algae growth :p ?!?! Before you jump down my throat about the high bio-load, let me say this. My plants have always done a very good job of keeping my nitrates and phosphates down. I used to check my water religiously, and this problem really only started about a month ago. I know my nitrates and phosphates are a lil on the higher side, but is that REALLY whats causing these non-stop blooms?! Also, I've heard that adding some aquarium salt can help stop blooms... true? I dont wanna hurt my fish or plants :\ Also, I was wondering if dosing something more would help? But then I was afraid I was dosing too much stuff... I was wondering if potassium was my limiting nutrient on my plants, and if I added more of it, they may be able to "choke" the algae outta the water...?

Can you guys please help? I'll be glad to provide any other info needed. Im so sick of only getting to enjoy clear water for 1-2 days max after a water change. My tank looks like poop!

[knashash]

what kind of plants do you have? how many? and how are they doing? reason I ask is that usually if your plants are thriving then algae isnt. So it may be something youre missing with fertilizer. Also flourish excel is something you should be adding daily...have you measured your KH? This will give us an idea on your CO2 levels but chances are they are not high enough. Your nitrates are on the high side and its probobly because your plants are missing something that is enabling them to suck them up.

In regards to your cloudy water after water changes. You said that you are doing a 75-80% water change and cleaning your filter at the same time? This seems like overkill and youre probobly sending your tank into a mini cycle. Just do a 50% water change and dont change all your filter media all at once. And when your rinse your filter media...make sure you rinse it with the water from the tank..not tap water.

[cgcaver]

yeh... my plants have seen better days. I dont have a KH test, but i'll start adding the excel daily for carbon. Would you recommend that over more potassium?

[knashash]

yeh... my plants have seen better days. I dont have a KH test, but i'll start adding the excel daily for carbon. Would you recommend that over more potassium?

Not OVER more Potassium...but in addition to it. Iron and Potassium like 2 or 3 times a week.....and the excel daily. Make sure you dont add anything with Phosphates in it. If they are already high that will just contribute to algae growth. Start with that.....pick at the algae in the mean time and slowly start to get rid of it with each water change...you may have to cut a lot of the leaves off your plants as well if they are already infested with the stuff....ive been where you are though...its really a matter of getting your plants healthy...once they are healthy and thriving...the algae will go away.

[cgcaver]

so "no" on the salt?

[ergo sum]

Some how I get the impression that you are not very serious. Am I close?

[knashash]

Some how I get the impression that you are not very serious. Am I close?

Why do you get that impression?

And yes....no need for any salt.

[ergo sum]

Oh just a hunch. He doesn't seem to know what spot algae is, yet he wants beard and or carpet algae. Just a hunch.

[knashash]

Oh just a hunch. He doesn't seem to know what spot algae is, yet he wants beard and or carpet algae. Just a hunch.

Hes learning....doesnt mean hes not serious

[cgcaver]

Yeh Im kinda a noob, but theres no reason to be a jerk LOL... I have always heard that spot algae is much harder to control than carpet/beard algae. And carpet/beard (when controlled) looks very natural and pretty nice. Is this totally off-base or what?

Anyways, in regards to the spot algae and the algae in the water... Im gonna stop dosing nutrients completely, and stop feeding for a few days. Anything else I should or should not do to get this algae under control? Should I do daily water changes (and how much) until I get the algae gone, or will that not help? Also, I know I could dark out my tank for a few days, however, my plants are kinda struggling right now, and I dont wanna kill them.

[ergo sum]

Okay then I should apologize.

It sounds like you are messing up the biofilter. Don't change the floss don't rinse the filter media and do less of a water change maybe 30% and see what happens.

You are declhorinating the water right?

[RTR]

You can't say the biofilter is being damaged without positive tests for ammonia or nitrite.

Have you checked for ammonia/nitrite?

What are the nitrate levels in the tank prior to a change, what % of the substrate is covered with plants, what is the tap water nitrate level if any, and how deep is the sand?

It is every bit as likely to be excess nutrient or imbalance of nutrients than insufficient nutrients for the plants, considering the fish maybe more likely.

[cgcaver]

yeh I declorinate using stress coat.

[knashash]

Why are you stopping dosing nutrients? The objective is to get your plants healthy...stopping nutirients will further starve your plants and allow algae to gain an even greater foothold. The fact of the matter is that getting a planted tank in balance can be tricky business and you can never be sure of what your doing without testing everything....however that being said......in my opinion and from my experiences I have had more luck with overdosing than under dosing....if your plants are showing signs of deficiency (yellow and brown leaves...spindly stems etc..) then they need to be fed. I am not an expert at this by any means, but I have been through a lot of algae stages and I can tell you one thing for sure that when my plants are healthy..like they are now, then algae is scarce......test as much as you can and post the results...Nitrate, Nitrite, Ammonia, KH, PH if you can.....but I dont think stopping the fertilizer is your answer.

Also in response to RTRs comment.........even though we are not positive he is messing up his bio filter without testing....the fact is that no one should do an 80% water change and replace all their filter media at once.....I have done that many times when I first got into the hobby and wondered why my water was cloudy after all that as well.

[Kasakato]

You can't say the biofilter is being damaged without positive tests for ammonia or nitrite.

Have you checked for ammonia/nitrite?

What are the nitrate levels in the tank prior to a change, what % of the substrate is covered with plants, what is the tap water nitrate level if any, and how deep is the sand?

It is every bit as likely to be excess nutrient or imbalance of nutrients than insufficient nutrients for the plants, considering the fish maybe more likely.

So it may be a good idea to stop dosing stuff for a while. Wait for the sciencetest to step in.

[ergo sum]

RTR is right. I am just guessing and you really should be trying to figure out the daily chemistry. That would make more sense. I suspect that you are seeing the effects of ammonia. But I am just guessing.

[RTR]

I do large scale partials and rinse mechanical media simultaneously on a rouitine basis without any issues at all. That is not a cause of a bloom.

[ergo sum]

I can understand that, but 75 to 80% on a fairly new tank once a week followed by something that looks white and then turns into green water sure sounds to me like an ammonia problem, especially if the nitrates after 6 days are only 20ppm. You know much better than I do, I am sure.

My thinking was to do a smaller water change, not mess with the floss and the filter medium at all and test the water and see what was happening.

Just remember that on 1/02 this tank was a wall mart special, on 1/04 it had a four inch Oscar and a four inch pictus cat. On 1/16 it had what sure looked like fish poop to me. And now it has a 7 inch rope fish. Meanwhile he wants to know if he should add excel or potassium. Much of which just does not add up to me in the first place. But if I accept it than I assume this tank has never actually cycled. Or is just doing a kind of cycle every week.

[Blinky]

It sounds like you may be having issues with 'green water' - unicellular floating algae. It often looks white at first, then as it increases the water takes on a greenish haze.
My best advice is to read up on fertilization, often algae is the result of an imbalance. Once the plants have everything they need, providing there are quite a few plants in the tank, the problem often goes away on its own. Striking that balance can be really difficult, I'm still learning about ferts and battling algae myself.
Can you split the water changes and fertilizing in two, say 40% on Monday and 40% on Thursday, dosing ferts after each? This way nutrient levels should stay more even throughout the week. I'm not sure if this will help, but it's worth a try.
If you're only dosing Excel once a week, I'd try upping it to daily or every other day (follow the instructions on the bottle so you don't overdose). I have no idea how effective it is controlling algae in general, but it's brilliant at keeping hair algae in check - I find if I stop dosing with Excel, the hair algae begins to regrow. I'm working on trying to find out exactly where the imbalance lies, but in the meantime I'm very thankful Excel works!
Best of luck. Algae's no fun, but IME if you're persistent you can get rid of it or at least lower it to an acceptable level :)

[cgcaver]

ergo, man, stop breaking my balls here LOL my tank has been fully cycled since Nov. '04. I used bio-spira.

Yeh, Im not close to a pro at this, but Im not a total newb either. Why are my questions about potassium and excel so mind-boggling? I was simply asking if you guys thought potassium was a limiting nutrient so I should add more, or if I should stop dosing nutrients at all so I wouldnt feed the algae...

I was concerned about my seemingly high bioload as well, so like I said, I tested my water religiously. My tank was able to handle the load fine for almost 4 months straight. However, about 2-3 weeks ago, my plants started looking puny and this algae thing started.

So far, I would tend to agree with those of you who have said that I basically sent my tank into a mini-cycle by cleaning too much at once. It looks just like the ammo OD Ive seen before.

[TKOS]

You mentioned your plants were not looking good. I had a green water outbreak last year that just wouldn't go away. Large water changes everyday did not help. Then I noticed that my grass plant was looking ragged. I removed it (left all the java fern) and voila my tank cleared right up with some more water changes. the "leaves" on the grass plant were trapping excess food particles and they were dying off. This lead to a boost of food for the algae to use and it took off from there.

So if I were you I would trim off any dead or dying plant material and see how that help. Your plants will have to be healthy for them to outcompete the algae otherwise the algae will just use the food to its advantage.

[ergo sum]

I don't mean to make your life harder. I just probably misunderstood what I read going through your posts.

Did you do the water change? Just do all the tests everyday this week and someone will help you.