Whitespot treatment

[dunc]

Hiya guys n gals. Am new to the forum.. I live in Newcastle, United Kingdom.

I've just started keeping fish - thought I'd start out with the basics and go for a simple setup: namely 2 goldfish.

One of the goldfish had whitespot as soon as he was in the tank. I don't know if this is because he had whitespot when I bought him and I didn't notice, or what, but either way he has it.

I've treated him per instructions with Waterlife's Protozin.. but it seems to have made no difference. Now the other goldfish is flicking and scraping and looks like he's in the early stages of having whitespot, too.

Should I treat them again on the weekly cycle* that the Protozin recommends, and keep treating them until the whitespot goes away, or am I right in just doing one weekly cycle* of the Protozin?

(*Protozin instructions: Use on days 1, 2, 3 & 6)

Thanks in advance :)
Duncan.

[OrionGirl]

There is a very good thread covering ich treatment in the articles forum. With goldfish, the high heat is a bit rougher on the fish, but a combination of elevated temp and salt is very effective, without being as stressful as most medications.

FWIW, very few people consider goldfish good beginners fish--they are more challenging than many available tropicals.

[dunc]

Really?

Why's that, then?

I presumed that as goldfish seem to be extremely hardy, they would be easy to look after?

Cheers for your help!

[OrionGirl]

Part of the problem is that goldfish produce lots of waste, so it's a challenge to keep the tank clean enough. Another concern is size--even fancy goldfish get very large, and need big tanks. The average recomendation is at least 20 gallons for just one fish--but lots of people put 2-3 in a 10 gallon tank. Keeping the water clean becomes almost impossible and the fish are stunted, since all should hit 8-9 inches within 18 months.

[dunc]

Ah right.. doh! I definitely need a bigger tank for them, that's for sure. What size tank am I looking at for 1x 3"ish goldfish and 1x 4"ish goldfish?

Should I get the biggest tank I can possibly afford and then maybe stock it up with a few more goldfish?

[OrionGirl]

The problem is that you'll need a tank for their adult size--which may be up to 18 inches. For a pair, a 75 gallon tank would be a bit small, but manageable for quite some time. It's also a matter of space--an 18 inch fish in a tank that's only 18 wide doesn't work very well. If you have fancy varieties (lion heads, etc), a trio might work, but will be crowded by most people's standards.

[dunc]

Lol what a nightmare, a 75 gallon tank for 2 fishies! And that's small! Lol.

What sort of size is a 75 gallon tank? I've got a dresser which I'd like to put a tank on, which is about 14" deep, 26" wide and 30" high.

[OrionGirl]

Most 75's are ~18X20X48. For smaller tanks, most furniture is sturdy enough, but when you get much above 50 gallons, I'm a little leary of it. When you figure that just water weighs in around 8 lbs per gallon, 50*8=400 pounds, plus the weight of the tank itself, well, most furniture is not built to support that kind of weight.

[dunc]

Aye.. I've just been looking at the Aqua One range of tanks (we sell them at work, so I could get 25% off - and they look pretty smart). I'd have to get the 980 which is 215 litres (works out at about 80 gallons I think?).

How long would it take me to cycle (fishless) a tank like that, and how many cold water fish could I put in? Do the black moors and lionheads etc get big quickly, too?

One more thing.. could I put White Cloud Mntn Minnows in with the coldwaters? I've heard that at room temperature in coldwater tanks they are alright?

Greatly appreciate the help, OrionGirl :)

[OrionGirl]

215 litres is ~55 US gallons. I wouldn't put more than 2 fancies in there. White clouds can tolerate the cooler water, but I'm not sure how well they get along. Goldies can sometimes eat smaller fish, and some times smaller, fast fish out compete them for food. I'd go slow, and keep in mind that the smaller fish still add to the bioload of the system.

For cycling--I'd plan on moving the existing filter onto the larger tank when it's setup. The filter will already have the bacteria, and the colonies will expand as the fish grow. Otherwise, 2-6 weeks, less time with heavy seeding from the existing tank.

[dunc]

The tank I have atm is a sort of inbuilt setup with a funny shaped filter system.. basically it wouldn't fit in a new tank :(

Do you have any good links to pages on fishless cycling? I think I understand the basics but wanna make sure I'm doing everything right.

Just checked my conversion thingy again and aye 215 is just over 55 gallons - must've been looking at non-US gallons, or something.

I like the "ready-made" setups - do you know of any 75 gallon, reasonably well made "ready-made" setups? Like the Aqua One range which come with filter, lighting etc.

I'll leave the WCMMs :thm:

[OrionGirl]

Can you pull the media out? That's the important part to take to the new tank, and even if it doesn't fit 100%, it will still work in a new filter if the water goes through it.
http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5927 a thread here in our archives, and:

http://malawicichlids.com/mw01017.htm, or http://tanked.netfirms.com/fishless.html#nofish

The first is by Chris Cow, the second is sort of a abbreviated version.

Oh, and I really can't recommend a package deal--I've learned that brands and package vary too much across the ocean for anything I'm familiar with to be available. Sorry--maybe someone familiar with products available to you will chime in. :(

[dunc]

Yea the media will come out.. could give it a go I guess!

Thanks loads for your help, feeling a bit more confident/knowledgeable now.. n am already on the lookout for a bigger tank :thm: