Substrate - do I need Flourite?

[delmore]

I'm setting up a new 30g tank. It has 2 watts per gallon, and I'll use low lit plants - java moss and java fern, and some floating water sprite. i won't be using CO2.

I've researched substrate, and don't want to use potting soil and sand. WHat are the best substrate options? Will 100% medium size gravel work? is 100% flourite better? How about a mix of the two?

Thanks!

[TwoTankAmin]

Low light is more like 1 wpg than 2wpg. That said, the use of fluorite, laterite and various home made substrates are for plants that will be rooted in the substrate, especially those that are heavy root feeders such as swords and crypts.

Root feeders need minerals which are not found in plain gravel or sand. However, fluorite, laterite etc are a special clay based gravel which absorb minerals which can then be sucked out by plant roots. The most commonly mentioned is iron, but there are others as well.

Java moss, java fern, anubias and bolbitus, the most commonly used low light plants are usually mounted on wood or rocks. Using these and floating sprite means you dont really need special substrates.

However, retrofitting fluorite or laterite in to an existing tank is a real PITA. If you think you may get into substrate rooted plants down the road, it is a lot easier to set up for it when the tank is first started.

[Skittyfish]

[.
However, retrofitting fluorite or laterite in to an existing tank is a real PITA. If you think you may get into substrate rooted plants down the road, it is a lot easier to set up for it when the tank is first started. [/B][/QUOTE]

Boy is that right! I added First Layer Pure Laterite to existing gravel, I put it in a paint strainer and rinsed for a really long time, but it still put a whole lot of dust in the water, took it two days to completely clear it up.:eek:

[superjohnny]

I used red flourite and OMG! Eventually I just put it in a bucket and ran the hose down to the bottom and let it float the dust out constantly stirring it. Huge mess. Had I to do it over again I'd probably go regular flourite but live & learn.

I think a combination of flourite and like small river rock or some such is fine for a planted tank. Flourite, onyx sand/gravel, argonite etc are really expensive (like $15-20 per 15.4 lbs).

[plantbrain]

An idea you might try is getting the flourite.
While not required etc, it will make the long term maintenance and health of the plants easier and better.

At 2w/gal, a smaller 30 gallon tank, 2-3 bags is plenty. I'd try for a depth of 4 inches in a non CO2 tank.

If good plant growth is your goal, adding CO2 will be the next thing to do to improve plant growth. Your non CO2 approach will work as you have things planned. But it does take a while to get things going.

A trick around this is to use DIY CO2 for the first 4-8 weeks then when the tank has grown in nicely, remove it. You can do water changes if you use CO2, none if you don't use it. Just add enough to account for evaporation.

But the new growth will be small. You'll see a definite difference there.
2w/gal + CO2 is pretty easy to handle, 3+w/gal is tougher for most.

I'd add 2-3 handfuls of ground peat(Garden centers) to the very bottom layer, and a bunch of soup mulm from an old tank. Top with flourite to about 4 inch total depth.

Plant and do not move plants for at least 1-2 months or not all.

Regards,
Tom Barr

[125gJoe]

Originally posted by plantbrain
An idea you might try is getting the flourite.
While not required etc, it will make the long term maintenance and health of the plants easier and better. .......Regards,
Tom Barr I agree. I use Onyx, but Flourite is excellent substrate too! Absolutely less maintenance.... :)

[plantbrain]

I've done 3 tanks with Florutie and 1 with onyx using non CO2 methods.
I feel the tank looks and functions better than even the best soil tank non CO2.

It really becomes apparent as the substrate ages. Soil substrates tend to wear out and lose much the needed aspects. Flourite seems to get better as it gets older(I've had Fluorite in some tanks for 8 years or so).

And it's less risky, less maintenance, easier for new folks to do and easily duplicated. I think it's a better solution to a non CO2 soil tank.

Regards,
Tom Barr

[delmore]

Thanks for all of the replies! Very helpful!!!

[GobyGuy5]

I've already got an established tank with gravel, I was looking at Flourite and Laterite, I'd just want to mix the stuff into the substrate so I was planning on Laterite, is this product as good or better than Flourite when mixed with gravel?

Also Did I get Tom right, when he said the Clay-substrates wear out?

[plantbrain]

No, some soil based substrates will loose some of their good points as they get old.
Clay based substrates like Flourite, sand/laterite tend to get better with age.
Regards,
Tom Barr

[99RedSi]

Originally posted by plantbrain
I've done 3 tanks with Florutie and 1 with onyx using non CO2 methods.
I feel the tank looks and functions better than even the best soil tank non CO2.

It really becomes apparent as the substrate ages. Soil substrates tend to wear out and lose much the needed aspects. Flourite seems to get better as it gets older(I've had Fluorite in some tanks for 8 years or so).

And it's less risky, less maintenance, easier for new folks to do and easily duplicated. I think it's a better solution to a non CO2 soil tank.

Regards,
Tom Barr

How about Onyx in a non-CO2 low-light tank? The price isn't an issue just maintanence. I have little time but would like the best of both worlds (some plants but not enough to need constant attention, less frequent water changes because of the plants, etc). Just trying to find a happy medium :)

[plantbrain]

I only did an Onyx non CO2 tank for two years.

I cannot really make a comment on it as of yet, but I do have 2- 4 gallon cube tanks that are of this type but they are new.

I'm reluctant to make strong statements about non CO2 tanks. Things happen too slow to be more certain and simply having a good feel for plant growth and tank health is more a skill aquired through experience, I cannot tell someone this, it must be shown.

With faster CO2 growth etc, I can be more certain about what happens.

But I'd say the onyx does/will do the same as the flourite. I certainly prefer it over soil in Non CO2 set ups.

Many folks will comment on things when they use CO2 set ups. This is perhaps not a fair comparison since methods, routines are quite different for different reasons in non CO2 tanks.

Fortunately, I've found the substrates need not be different.

Regards,
Tom Barr