Sickly Ram

[Skittyfish]

I just got 5 Blue and 3 Golf Rams on Sunday, put them in a 10 g quarentine tank. One died Sunday night, and today another is just sort of lying on the bottom breathing rapidly with fins clamped a bit. The rest are doing great, eating and swimming and bickering amongst themselves. I did a 2 gallon water change and add aquarisol, what else can I do? Can they tolerate some salt? The tank is a year old and had 6 Head and Tail lights in it until Saturday, so I don't think I have overdone the bioload. Also Ammonia is 0 and the ph is 7.4.
Any help is greatly appreciated.

[NJ Devils Fan]

Just a guess, maybe there isn't enough air in the tank.

[Skittyfish]

Maybe, but I have a couple of plants in there, and none of the other fish seem to be bothered. There are two small mollies, and a 2 inch pleco. The other Blue's are staking out territory and the golds are just eating everything they can find. I haven't put any salt in the tank in a couple of months. I could put some in if i knew for sure that it wouldn't hurt the rest of them.

I should also add that these didn't come from a very good pet store and that i will probably regret buying them from now on. I swore I would never go in there because they fed kittens to their snakes if they couldn't sell them!:eek:

[Cichlid Woman]

Sad to say, Rams can be very touchy, especially if they weren't cared for very well before you got them. Under those conditions, it's doing pretty well if you only lose a couple. Wish I could be more help.

-- Pat

[Dwarfnut]

I'd say first off, the PH is a little high... Rams like slightly acidic water... below 7.0 if you can get it there. The salt won't hurt if it's just aquarium salt, just don't overdo it. If they are wild caught Rams, they often come in with a bacterial infection that antibotics will usually cure. But even then, I typically lose about 25% of my Rams right after getting them.

Good luck,
Bill C.

[Skittyfish]

I don't know how to get it lower. Any ideas on how to get it down? My PH out of the tap is 6.6 to 6.8. KH 2.24 degrees and GH is 5.6 dh degrees.
I think it has been decided that my tapwater is supercharged with co2 and then when it sets the co2 goes out and the ph increases. So any ideas will be appreciated. These fish will be in a 72 gallon tank (they are now in a 10).

Also, the gold rams are a lot less shy than the blue ones. It's really neat to see how they are different.

[Skittyfish]

Oh well, the fish died, and all of the rest seem to be fine. How long should I quarentine them? and how do you worm fish? (I can worm a dog and a cat, but I don't think that pill will fit in the fishes mouth:D )

[Faramir]

Salt is inappropriate with Rams. They don't like high TDS anyway, so why dissolve more solids in there?

Try peat filtration to lower the pH.

[Skittyfish]

OK. Next question is Can you buy peat somwhere besides an LFS?

My LFS doesn't carry much in the way of filtering. And the one where I got the Rams probably won't get much of my business.
They let a Mono Sebae die in about one day, they don't really filter thier water, not sure what they do to it, and most of thier fish have ICH.

Any way, Thanks very much for sharing your knowledge(opinion):) .

[Dwarfnut]

That's pretty odd that your tap has a PH that low and then it creeps up... have you tested the tap water good? What I mean is that maybe you could get some fresh tap water and take a Ph reading. Then let the water just sit for 24 hours and take another reading... are they the same or different? Could you have something in the tank that is raising the Ph like shells or something?

The easiest for me for lowering the hardness and Ph is thru the peat filtration as Faramir suggested. I've tried several different kinds of peat and have had better luck using the stuff from Fluval (the pellets) and you can get it from Al's or Petsolutions for under $10 a box. You don't need a lot of it at one time as it seems like it's super concentrated!

Sorry to hear that one died... guess that just happens sometimes. One thing I've found thru experience is that you still need to treat the Rams, even if they appear healthy at first. On several occasions, I've had Rams that did good for a while, then suddenly many or all died! I guess that is how the internal stuff goes.... Better to just treat with some antibotics while in quanintine.

Good luck,
hope that helps,
Bill C.

[Skittyfish]

I'm going to post this now so that I don't forget the results.
At 8:40 am water from tap at about 73 degrees F.

PH is 6.4 (used two different test kits to check)
KH is 40 ppm (Hagen test kit took 2 drops to pale yellow and 3 to the yellow on the book)
Gh is 60 ppm


Tank water is
PH 7.4
KH 30 ppm
GH 60 ppm

No there are no shells or anything in the tank, 3 coconut shell halves, and 3 pieces of driftwood that has been in a while.

Anything else I should check for now? I will leave the same cup setting out until tomorrow.

(I counted from the first drop which is wrong, so i went back and fixed the KH and GH.)

[superstein61]

I too have found rams to be very sensitive. I bought a bunch of fish from a local breeder who is known for excellent quality / healthy fish, including 2 Blue rams. All of the fish (including several other dwarf cichlids) did well except the Rams. I lost the female after 2 days, the male after 6 days. My water parameters are very good and in the range suitable for Rams.

From all I have read, losing 2 out of 10 is not bad

[Skittyfish]

Next day...

PH from tap that sat overnight is, well it depends on which brand I use. Aquarium Pharm. test says about 7.2 The Hagen low range say 7.6 and the high range shows less than 7.6.

Also in the tank after a very small water change (maybe 15%)
the AP test says 6.6 to 6.8 the Hagen low range says 7.4.

The LFS says my Ph is 6.6 and that I have a low buffer (didn't say what it was though).

I need to go back to being a newbie........Or throw away all of my tests:rolleyes: .

Anyway thanks for any help. I really would like to keep my Ph about 6.6 to 7.0 for my Angels and Rams. (two different tanks)