Hello, I'm new and have a few questions...

janderson

janderson

certified geek
Jul 18, 2005
75
0
0
Colorado Springs
Here is the current scenario:

My 8 year old "inherited" a no-longer-wanted 2 gallon aquariom with a goldfish from a neighbor who had been successfully killing goldfish for about a year now. (She has now switched to bettas but isn't doing much better) "Goldie" wasn't doing well from the get-go and died after a few days. Of course my kid was in tears, so we bought another one ("Buddy") and promised her that if she did a good job at feeding, cleaning the tank etc. by her birthday Buddy would move into the pond and she'd get a "real" aquarium.

Well, the aforementioned birthday is next month, Buddy is alive & well and has grown quite a bit, so it's time for him to move and time to decide on new equipment and new fish. So I started to do some research and realized that in order for new fish to be introduced to the family by late August, we need to start Cycling right about now. I went out to look at several LFS - if possible I try to avoid big chain stores - and asked for some advice. And this is precisely where my problem starts.

The few things I think I have already learned from books and this site among others are:
a) freshwater is easier (as in not-quite-as-much-patience-needed)
b) the new tank needs to be at least a 20G
c) we'd like a community and
d) the fish on top of my kid's wish list (she calls it a needle fish, I think it's called a tiger barb?) is an aggressive species and is not an option

Great, every store clerk/owner agrees. But with the questions I haven't figured out yet, I get completely contradictory answers: :help:

1) 6-week fishy cycling vs. 3 week non-fishy (from what I read here, I don't like the fishy deal - actually I was very surprised to hear that advice from a small shop owner)
2) live plants vs. plastic (ties in with cycling)
3) bio-wheel filters vs. external (I'm in Colorado Springs and supposedly the bio-wheel setup doesn't work at this elevation?)
4) 20G is great for starters vs. 30G much better for only $20 more (true or just a sales pitch?)
HELP!!!

Also, is there a recommended starter setup somewhere on this site? As in how many fish per tank, what species are recommended together and in what numbers? I looked but couldn't find one. I know that ther are a myriad answers to this questions, but I'm trying to come up with a sample shopping list, so I can just take my kid to the store, and tell her to pick x amount of fish A, y amount of fish B etc.

Thanks so much for any help!

PS: and sorry for the long post!
 
janderson said:
1) 6-week fishy cycling vs. 3 week non-fishy (from what I read here, I don't like the fishy deal - actually I was very surprised to hear that advice from a small shop owner)
2) live plants vs. plastic (ties in with cycling)
3) bio-wheel filters vs. external (I'm in Colorado Springs and supposedly the bio-wheel setup doesn't work at this elevation?)
4) 20G is great for starters vs. 30G much better for only $20 more (true or just a sales pitch?)
HELP!!!
Click to expand...

1) Definately go fishless, no chance of killing any fish and it will go faster.

2) I love planted tanks but be prepared for much more $$ when going planted. You'll need 2 watts/gallon of plant light (not regular florescents) minimum for a planted tank, 4 wpg is ideal but probably only recommended if you're adding CO2. To do plants really well, you'll also need to add CO2 and trace minerals such as iron, especially if you're get up to 4wpg of light. You'll find lots of info on the web for DIY CO2 setups. Flourite gravel is good for trace minerals and fertilizer helps too.

3) Bio-wheel doesn't work at particular elevations? That's new to me, doesn't mean it isn't true tho. If you're going to go planted then you're best having a filter that doesn't break the surface of the water. Surface agitation will cause the CO2 in the tank to escape (if you're injecting CO2). Canister would be ideal but again more expensive.

4) Bigger is always better but of course more expensive, and not just for the tank.

You can always start small and grow from there. If you get hooked like the rest of us you'll be buying a 55 Gallon tank, injected CO2 and PC lights in no time :)
 
I think you are approaching this hobby in a very smart way-and your patience will be rewarded!

There are alot of very knowledgable people on this forum who will be happy to help you. From my personal experience with kids and fish I have a few thoughts that might help.

1. Kids like fish that they can tell apart and name. You can get livebearers like guppies, mollies and platties in different color strains. These fish won't care if their buddies are different colors.

2. Kids don't like it when their fish pick on each other. If someone describes a fish as semi-aggressive, you can believe them! If you do get livebearers get all female or a 1:3 male/female ratio (and expect fry).
 
1) I would recommend going fishless as well. Its not very exciting waiting for the tank to cycle but its better then scooping out dead fish too.
2) If you are pretty new to fish/aquariums I would get fake plants to start out. Just my opinion, but when I first started I jumped into real plants early on and they ended up getting either eaten, knocked out of place by large fish, or leaves fell off and were floating around the water. I would maybe think of real plants as a phase 2 of your set-up,
3) I personally have never heard of that
4) I feel like the Wal-Mart ambassador because I always recommend it, but they offer a nice 32 and 55 gallon setup with all the basic equipment. As time goes by you can upgrade the filtration etc as you see fit.
 
bdobosz said:
1)
2) If you are pretty new to fish/aquariums I would get fake plants to start out. Just my opinion, but when I first started I jumped into real plants early on and they ended up getting either eaten, knocked out of place by large fish, or leaves fell off and were floating around the water. I would maybe think of real plants as a phase 2 of your set-up,


Just another thought, If you decide to go with fake plants, I would still invest in a good substrate (such as, Flourite). This will leave you the option of switching to live plants at a later date without having to replace gravel in a running tank. (Speaking from experience...wasn't fun)...Good luck! :dance2:
Click to expand...
 
well, here we go:

First of all, thanks for the replies. We decided to take the advice about getting fake plants and going with a fishless cycle. Since that means waiting for a few weeks for the fish, we decided to get started: We went to a few more LFS yesterday and ended up coming home with a used 20G tank complete with stand, filter, pump, heater, gravel and a few fake plants. Also got about 1/2 gallon of "starter culture" from one of the store's tanks. Yes, I understand there's a risk of bringing home diseases/parasites as well, but we decided to trust the place. I guess I'll be posting if anything goes wrong... ;)

Last night we assembled everything, filled the tank, de-chlorinated the water, added the culture and have now officially started to cycle our first "serious" tank. This morning I picked up a test kit and am now about to leave to pick up some ammonia and get started in earnest. (Finding ammonia was trickier than I thought, after unsuccessfully scouting several paces I had to go home and start calling around. Finally found an Ace store that carries it)

I'll keep you updated...
 
This is great reading a post from someone who has really done their research on how to start up. I predict you will end up getting a bigger tank in the future.

Don't be shy of going with live plants though. There's some really nice and easy to keep species.
 
Another kid-related idea for you- Cut out a sheet of paper for the tank background and let your kid decorate it. We use kraft paper for our aquatic newt tank. It gets splashed, but dries pretty quickly.
 
the latest update...

well, we tested the water last night and the results were as follows:

PH: 7.2 (that's fine, right?)
NH3/4: 1.5
NO2: 0.2
(didn't test for NO3 yet)

I'm assuming that the existing levels of NH3/4 and NO2 are resulting from the "Starter Culture" we got from the LFS.

To bring the ammonia levels up to the 3-5 ppm suggested for fishless cycling, I added 10 drops of ammonia and after 30 minutes the NH2/4 read 4 ppm, so I left it at that. If I understand the "fishless cycling" articles correctly, I will continue to test the water every evening and if necessary I'll add minute amounts of ammonia to bring the level back to the 4 ppm target ratio.

I've been reading as much about fishless cycling as I can find online, and I'm still not completely sure I understand it. Here is how I explained it to my kid, please tell me if I'm wrong:

While we will be bringing the ammonia level back up to about 4 ppm every evening, when we test for it just before adding anything the level shown should be getting consistently lower over the course of the cycle, indicating that the bacteria are multiplying and therefore consuming more ammonia per day. NO2 and NO3 levels will likewise be fluctuating in a more or less predictable pattern. Once the test results before adding new ammonia read 0-0-0 (for ammonia, nitrate and nitrite) for a few days in a row we will be able to add fish to the tank - that's how it's supposed to work, right?

Thanks for all your help! :hi:
 
The starter culture/water from the LFS should have had a reading of 0 NH3 and 0 NO2 and some level of nitrate (because their cycle is well established). The purpose of the starter culture is to add the beneficial bacteria to your tank...hard to say if there was much bacteria in it. However, you very well may have NH3 in your tap water (from chloramine)...something to keep in mind for future water changes. Test your tap water to make sure.

When fishless cycling, once you start getting NO2 readings, you only want to add 1/2 of the original dose of ammonia. Otherwise you'll end up adding too much ammonia over time, and may stall the cycle.

When the cycle is established, you'll have 0 NH3, 0 NO2 and some NO3. Due to the large amount of ammonia used in fishless cycling, the NO3 levels will be very high. You will then need to do a large water change to bring the NO3 below 20ppm before adding fish.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
AquariaCentral.com
Top Bottom