Stop BSL Petitions

[PumaWard]

I know there are many dog lovers on this board and many of you probably know that there are many cities, counties, and states that want to act on breed specific legislation in order to "protect" the people. Pit bull types are the main target, but many other common breeds such as Rotties, Dobes, Akitas, and many many more could be effected. Here is a link that will redirect you to the petition sites, some are state specific, some are not.

http://i-dog.com/board/messages/165/149512.html?1121808613

[slipknottin]

Not a single one of those online petitions has had any effect on anything ever. Waste of time, even if it only takes 5 seconds to fill out.

[PumaWard]

A former am staff breeder and pitbull advocate disagrees with you.

[JinxXx0085]

Ah, I think its reallllllly stupid how the state want to prohbit certain kind of breed. Its not the animals' fault, its people's fault. We didn't train them properly, some people abused their rights.
Thats my 2 cent. :devil:

[Kasakato]

They are already banned here in Toronto.

[slipknottin]

A former am staff breeder and pitbull advocate disagrees with you.

He can disagree all he wants. Ive seen hundreds of these petitions all over the internet, and have never seen any of them result in anything.

[PumaWard]

slip, I'm not going to argue with you. If you don't want to sign it then don't.
It's really that simple.


BTW, it's a she.

[Holly9937]

Just to throw this in, I've actually signed several petitions and later received letters from the places/person, whatever petitioned against that they have changed whatever it was they were doing.

Its really a shame that the dogs are being outlawed, I was having a bit of a discussion about pit bulls in another thread and I mentioned that if jack russells or chihuaha (sp?) were bigger, they would have been banned ages ago :rolleyes: . Until more legal action is taken against all the idiots who own these animals and allow them to be aggressive, people will continue to own them and raise them poorly.

[Holly9937]

by the way, that list is ridiculous, how can golden retrievers be included?!?!

Also, to anyone who knows, what (if any ) difference is there between staffordshire bull terrier, american staffordshire terrier, and american pit bull terrier? Which is the real "pit bull"? And/or do they all "supposedly" have the same temperment?

[hurdledude1298]

how can they possibly ban dogs? plus what would they do to people that already owned one of the dogs? This is totally stupid. Well a lot of states allow people to own tigers and stuff (with a license of course) why not dogs?

[hurdledude1298]

boy am i glad michigan isnt in this!

[Holly9937]

But you know that in michigan any pit bull that ends up in a shelter is automatically euthanized?!?! They have no chance to be adopted :sad:

[judgemax]

by the way, that list is ridiculous, how can golden retrievers be included?!?!

Also, to anyone who knows, what (if any ) difference is there between staffordshire bull terrier, american staffordshire terrier, and american pit bull terrier? Which is the real "pit bull"? And/or do they all "supposedly" have the same temperment?

there is little differance between those breeds you named ..i own the american version ..they are labled differently specifically because of being registered ..and how they are bred ..the akc ..will not register the american pit bull but will register the american stafforshire terrier ...there are different versions but thats the easiest way to explain ...
and yes michigan already has bsl...and colorodo...all amstaffs and pits are imediatly euthinezed in your state ..they are not cnsidered adoptable....and most bsl..does not specifically outlaw the dog..just limit its ability to sellers breeders and fighters of specific breeds ..laws are pretty generic sometimes as little as owners must be 18 years of age ..owning a bs ..dog must be regisered and tagged ...fixed and on leashes at all times ..yada yada yada ..there are even cities that dont allow you to have them either forcing you to move or get rid of your pet...i love my babies ...and my kids ...they get along great ,....for more specific info you can check out American pitbull registery ..apbr.com....heres a look at my old boy posing for the camera ...and as for temperment ..as with any dog ..it is how you raise and treat them..back a frightened dog in a corner and see what happens ..or teach a dog to fight for its food ..or just simply not feed it and abuse the dog .....ant dog can be viciuos ...and any dog can be a family freindly pet ...my amstaffs are loveable babies ...killers my but ...they are loyal ..swimming ,.frisbee playing , ball catching...tail wagging , tree chewwing ..hunks of fun.... :thm:

[lbritish]

The majority of "online" petitions are not taken seriously due to the fact that most times they are A) form letters B) there is no proof that the person signing it did so once or 100,000 times as different names each time C) no proof the person signing is actually a member of the person it is being sent to's constituent area or at least "was in that area", D) it takes all of 2 seconds to "sign" it in most cases, and E) that the person signing is legal age to vote or is even a registered voter which means you opinion doesnt count anyway to them

Plus most online petitions are participated in by "petition addicts" who seem to sit around signing petitions for just about anything that comes to mind regardless of their feelings on it...

Same thing happens with online email based forms to send letters to congress members for a particular cause...

What does work? Someone sits down and identifies someone with power to fix the problem... they research the person and gets information about them and their previous positions on similar issues, public statements, family history, etc. They then write up a crash course in everything one should know when writing to that person. they then provide a web page detailing background on the person and list a bunch of things they think this person can be motivated with. People then sit down and write 5-10 sentences about how they know this person feels blah blah and votes for blah blah in the past and then 5-10 more sentences about why they need to support this new cause. When people line up and answer the problem with this type of response personalizing a few sentences making it appear you know all about this person and took the time to write a REAL letter it OVERLOADS the staff supporting them. When they get 10,000 identical email messages they total up "10,000 people sent a form letter" and then sit down and count the other ones that came from somewhere else and tell the congressperson "and then a bunch of other people wrote their own letters supporting this cause - 1000 people expressed support for the way you handled this other thing and compared this new issue to that... 500 people supported you on blah blah and want you to support this now... 4000 people did XYZ and want you to go with it too.

What matters more? What's going to mean more to them? The 10000 form letters or the 5500 people who wrote "personal" 10-20 sentences?

Think about the junk mail you get from the mailbox in front of your house. If it looks like a credit card offer what do you do? Probably just throw it out right away without even opening it. Just grind it in the shredder. What do you think about 10,000 form letters vs 5500 custom letters.

I'm not saying the cause is bad... just the delivery vehicle... get off your butt and write 5-10 sentences and stick a stamp on it... a mound of paper in the middle of their office REALLY sends a message. If you insist on electronic at least write your own letter even if you think you stink at writing... they dont care. Use bad spelling and bad english if you have to. Just write what you feel and how you would tell them if they were standing in front of you. Who cares if it is not gramatically correct. It just gets the message accross.

[Holly9937]

Hey judge, is there any size difference on those few breeds? I'd love to own one someday, and I am partial to big dogs :p: . I would never get one now though. My 3 dogs don't have the best manners, and I would be afraid the new dog would pick them up and I would want a pit to be well trained, which unfortunately, my dogs have me trained at the moment

[judgemax]

um there are some size differance in what people consider a pit there are the small medium and the large ..i have owned the large but currently house two mediums ..they are more speciffically the size of a boxer and often confused with them ..there are also english versions and there are also other breeds labled as a pit ..most commonly spuds mackenzie ..the english version ..and the little rascals dog i believe was a small vesion ..if i rember right .amstaffs do well with other dogs but remember that if you want to avoid ant aggresion ..you should have them fixed ..it does help..thta way it eliminates among males anyway the need for dominance imho...but since we only house amstaffs and one male and one female ...we are looking for a litter soon ..i hope ...they have a life span on average of ten years and they fall pray to common larger breed problems such as hip and joint and skin aligments ..same as everybreed they have their problems but out and out there really isint many other breeds that are as loyal and obedient ..or smart ..they get a bum rap...we are hoping that in about five more months to let them mate ..she will then be old enough ..and they both have such good temperments that everyone wants a pup...we have agread that we will not sell the pups ..only going to family and friends and we chose not to register ours although they both have the ability to be ..and we also do not crop ears or tails ...it soften their look and we love the tuxedo look that they most often carry ..tips of tail ect ,,their are also many colors of pits ..from a blue fawn to brendle to merle.some people wish merles were bred out or fixed to no longer breed seeing it as an undesirable trait but they are pretty ..i have a brindle and a blue fawn ...the fawn has green eyes ..and is she startiling to look at with them ...if i could resize pics i would post them up ...check out the web site i mentioned and youll see what i mean...and most importantly when getting a pit ..i prefer to know some of its liniage ...

[flyfly]

definately look into the lineage if or when you buy a pit. I will only make that mistake once. My dog is turning three this month and already has hip and knee problems. Poor guy

and wasnt spud mackenzie and the target dog bull terriors?

[labont865]

Anybody who knows me on this site knows that I am probably the biggest Pit Bull activist around. However I am not going to get into another big debate about it on this site, as the last one went for about a month. A few members here probably remember that.

All I have to say is click the links in my Sig |
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Actually its not all I have to say.

And slip you are very very wrong my friend, these types of petitions saved me from having to euthanize 4+ dogs.

Holly the reason Retrievers are included is that they bite more people than all but about three other breeds of dog.

[labont865]

Pit Bulls are not technically the same as a Bull Terrier of any breed, except for the TRUE Pit Bull Terrier breeds.
However breeds commonly referred to as "pit bulls" include American Pit Bull Terriers (APBT), Irish Pit Bull Terriers (IPBT), American Staffordshire Terriers (AST), Staffordshire Bull Terriers and mixes that include one of these breeds.
The only true Pit Bulls are the members of the APBT and IPBT breeds, which have a few different variants within them like the Blue nosed, and Red nosed variants of both species.

P.S. Holly the best place to learn about them is Google.com/Google.ca as there are hundreds of good sites for them. Or look for a breeders site.
I can tell you what I know but I mainly specialize in True Pit Bulls as that is what I breed.
The thing to watch out for is a site or book that starts to talk negatively about the dogs, says their risky, or aggressive, or dangerous, or for single people only, or whatever, because that shows that the person doesnt know what they are talking about.

[PumaWard]

Its really a shame that the dogs are being outlawed, I was having a bit of a discussion about pit bulls in another thread and I mentioned that if jack russells or chihuaha (sp?) were bigger, they would have been banned ages ago

I know of several occasions where doxies and poms have killed infants... as well as JRTs... do you think it made national headlines?

Pugs were also on the list :eek:


Also, from my understanding, Am Staffs were developed from APBT... but I can't find where I read that.

[judgemax]

Pit Bulls are not technically the same as a Bull Terrier of any breed, except for the TRUE Pit Bull Terrier breeds.
However breeds commonly referred to as "pit bulls" include American Pit Bull Terriers (APBT), Irish Pit Bull Terriers (IPBT), American Staffordshire Terriers (AST), Staffordshire Bull Terriers and mixes that include one of these breeds.
The only true Pit Bulls are the members of the APBT and IPBT breeds, which have a few different variants within them like the Blue nosed, and Red nosed variants of both species.

thats what i was trying to say but couldnt figure out how to say it .....thanks for clarifying that ...

[ash]

So just out of curiosity- not trying to be adversarial- are you guys who are pit bull advocated against all types of BSL or just those that limit ownership? I have mixed feelings on the matter. On the one hand, you are absolutely right- any and all breeds can be vicious, and nurture is a much more important factor than nature there. but at the same time 'tough' dogs do tend to appeal to a certain demographic that shouldn't have any animals at all- the type of people who want the dog as an accessory and don't understand or care why training is important. So I guess what I am getting at is that I wouldn't have a problem with some sort of regulations being in place that required certification to own certain breeds because in my view, people who want these dogs for the wrong reasons are causing problems for the breeds themselves. Backyard breeders and the people to whom they sell can ruin a breed's quality and reputation in very short order. It happened to dobermans in the eighties, it's happening to Rotts right now, as well as countless other breeds not known for aggression.

[Holly9937]

I think regulation would be great, if it were able to weed out the "bad" owners. But some of these new laws (or whatever they officially are, ordinances?) are trying to ban the DOG. For example, it is illegal to own a pit bull in miami. I think thats silly!!

[ash]

I think it's silly too- and it is right now factoring in big time to the way that insurance companies are addressing risk- you would not believe some of the breeds that they won't allow you to have. I mean, if they caught you with one of these dogs in your home they would drop you point blank. And if you have a dog that is part one of those breeds they will drop you. It's absurd. So what bothers me is that for one thing- no breed is safe. These laws are not going to stop at pitts or rotts or german shepherds. But I have to say, I do sort of understand their point- they are a business and they have to cover themselves. What really makes me angry is the people that push them in this direction- the provervial bad apples. There has to be a way to target them legally speaking, because unfortunately they are all over.

[judgemax]

I cannot get renters , homeowners and some life insurance policies (on my children) because of our dogs. seems to me that buisness sence would prevail and just write a policy for people with these types of dogs (such as myself) and allow us to exclude that particular part of the policy....
I do not believe it is fair to allow laws to be made making choices such as what type of dog we should own ..however i do think that maybe a background check and special licensing could help...home checks ..amstaffs, need ample room to run and exercise.., they do not like being cooped up ..theuy are origannally a working breed and should be treated as such , any owner should have the ability and time to care for them ..taking them on walks and having planty of room for them to run.

[ash]

so what, if I may ask, do you do? to get insurance do you just have to omit the truth? Would it basically just be a problem if there was a claim filed against you? That's the part I don't quite get- I can't remember if I was asked anything about specific breeds when I got my renter's ins. or not- You don't have to explain if you don't want to-

[labont865]

Puma- Vice versa, Pit Bulls are a desendant of the Staffordshire Terrier that have been bred with a few other breeds to creat the Pit Bull breed. Staffies are just one step along the line of the creation of Pit Bulls.

Judge- No probs, it can be very hard to find the right words cant it!

Ash- You are very right that Regulation should be inforced in a certain way. I personally think that anybody who is looking at a "problem" breed(i use that term hesitantly) Should have to take a proper handling/training course and proper liscensing of the owner. This as was said would help weed out the bad owners. However having the dogs Banned is not the answer as it will just lead to more underground breeders breeding crap quality dogs that arent allowed in public so they dont get socialized properly then they end up being a problamatic dog. The dogs should nto be punished for the way they are trained or bred. That like saying Oh we have to ban and euthanize children born with drug induced or alcohol induced mental problems because they are risky and unstable. It just doesnt make sence because its not their fault its the parents/breeders/trainers.

I personally dont sell my pups to anybody who doesnt already own a Pit. I have to be able to meet their current animal and judge by its temperament and it obedience and condition on whether the dog has been well cared for. Or I must know the person who is buying it personally. I also get all my customers to sign paperwork stateing that I may visit the dog at any time and if the conditions arent up to my standards I will take the dog back without a refund which is not good for the owner as my pups go for up to 5000$.

[judgemax]

actually i do not carry renters at this time ..i am covered under a loan that i have for most of the larger ticket items ..tvs vcr/dvd/computer/ect...as for insurance for the kids there are some companies that will give me policies ..just had to look and give up some of the things i wanted from a policy.I thought about omitting it but the only problem is that becomes fraud ,,and if (not that it should happen) a claim was filed ui would then be responsible anyway and then can be sued by the insurance company as well and loose all of the money i paid in ...which would stink!

[ash]

That's rough.