pH issues...

[Squealor]

So, while AC was down, I had a bit of an emergency... In one day, I lost two of my Julii Cory cats. At the time, I had 6 serpae tetras and three cories. I couldn't for the life of me figure out what happened. All levels are great (Ammonia - 0, Nitrite - 0, Nitrate - 5~10). Symptoms came suddenly - cory lying on it's side on the gravel, would try to swim and would just spiral around and crash back to gravel. No new things added to water, no new decorations, etc. Finally, I think I figured out what happened... I had done a fairly large water change (30% or even a little more) the night before. I tested my tap water and the pH is MUCH higher than my tank water (probably b/c of the driftwood, I think). My tank water is around 7.2 and my tap is literally off the charts at 8.8. Could I have shocked my cories by adding the different pH water? Also, I want to make sure that I don't do it again with water changes. While the board was down, I made a couple VERY SMALL water changes at a time, only a bucket or so at a time. How can I change my tap water to be at the same pH so this doesn't happen again?
Just to update, the remaining cory made it fine and I recently added 5 more. They swim around in a little school and seem very happy, but I'm still bummed I lost 2 b/c of a beginner mistake. :(

[Squealor]

Oh, and did I mention that I really missed you guys?! You've helped me so much in the past that I was horrible to go through this without the help!!!

[Kasakato]

Do you know the KH of the tap and tank water? Try leaving a glass of tap water out for 24 hours, then test. There could be some kind of pH buffer that will gas off over time.

[reignman40]

I am with you about the board. I actually had 2 fish die while the board was down as well. However they were already unhealthy and being treated for fungus.

Anyway, I too am very glad the board is back. This is by far the best board I've been on and the quickest responses. Honestly I am not 100% sold on the pH being the exact issue the fish died but it's also not out of the realm of reality. What I would do is keep with smaller 10-15% changes twice a week. This should move the pH slowly up in your tank as you slowly introduce the tap water. Then when your tank water is closer in pH to the tap water. Mainly we just want to make sure the change comes slowly. With pH your main concern is to keep it consistent.

Hope this helps,
Curtis

[Squealor]

The KH of the tank is around 2.4, not sure on the tap, I'll have to test it. The water that I am putting in the tank during water changes is tap water that's been sitting out for at least 24 hours to a week (have a big rubbermaid tub for holding water) with the declorinator already in it. pH of tap and holding tank is VERY high. Both 8.8.

[Kasakato]

Thats weird. Im thinking that you may just have to stick with small water changes to keep it stable. But get the KH and we will see.

[Squealor]

Just did the test... the tap water and tank water are exact same KH at 2.24. I've read that driftwood can drastically change pH and I have a big hunk of it in there... I also saw that there is a chemical that you can add to water to neutralize it (pH of 7) which would be closer to the tank water than my tap, but I didn't know if it's good for the tank... I've never added any chemicals except for the declorinator and plant fertilizers...

[Squealor]

Oh, and no matter how many water changes I make, for the past several weeks (after adding driftwood), the pH of the tank is always around 7.2-7.4 even though the tap is 8.8. No matter how much high pH water I add, it eventually seems to neutralize.

[Kasakato]

Depending on the type of wood. Some will lower the pH more than others. Try taking a glass of tank water and add some tap water to it. See how much of a difference there is. I have the same thing in my tank, but the wood is able to lower the pH before it is a problem for the fish. And don't use any "perfect pH" or any products like that. They will give you more problems than you have now.

[OrionGirl]

Even the holding water is high pH? From such a low KH, I would suspect that the tapwater is artificially high from pressurization and CO2, which then gasses off. A KH that low won't be able to maintain a high pH--very little biological activity will burn through the KH, and pH will drop. If the water is still high pH after sitting out, or agitation, then there's something else in operation--you'll want to identify what that is, and address it.

In the mean time, I'd add a bit of baking soda to increase the buffer, and experiment (in a glass, not in the tank) what amount you need to raise the KH to above 3.

[Holly9937]

Sorry if I missed this, but how big is the tank?

[Kasakato]

In sing:
"46g planted, 6 serpae tetras, 6 Julii Cory Cats, 1 male Dwarf Gourami, 1 female Dwarf Gourami, and 1 pond snail who rode in on a plant"

[Holly9937]

:thud: ..... its been too long. Worst case scenario I guess you could just do smaller changes every few days to try to not change the tank water too much. I would not be suprised if the sudden change is what got the corys, depending on how large the difference is! Sorry to hear that by the way :sad:

[Squealor]

Could it not be gassing off from the holding tank b/c I put a lid on it? It's not an airtight lid, but its has a purpose... I have two cats (one long hair) and during these hot summer months, he's shedding like mad. I put a cover on the holding tank to keep all the fur out (which seems to invade the entire apartment). I made the mistake of forgetting to put the cover on one night and the next day, I had to empty all the water out and rinse it b/c there were furballs floating on top!
Could having this lid on prevent the gasses from escaping while it sits out?

[Kasakato]

This is why I said try a glass of water overnight.

[Squealor]

Cool, will do.
Thanks!

[daveedka]

Co2 drives Ph Down !!! not up, if your tap is 8.8 your tap Kh is high normally, and co2 low. So Tap water that is high Co2 will raise in Ph overnight not lower.
Test phosphates. I am not an expert on how phosphate buffers work, but do know they can have an effect on Ph and sometimes come into play. I would also go to the trouble of verifying you test kit readings. I generally take a sample of water to the LFs to see if they are in the same range my kit reads. In your case I would take tap water, aged tap water, and some tank water and explain to the LFs you want a comparison. Most pplaces are happy to oblige.

BTW everyone, it is great to see the boards alive again.
Dave

[Kasakato]

Its been to long :D Ya Dave is exactly right.