Is everything looking alright to you all?

[Goosteady]

Okay, I have kept planted community tanks my whole life but this is my first attempt at a cichlid tank. I have a 17 gallon tank and am wanting to house some jewel cichlids. I have several questions. The first being how many can I house in my tank, the second is what kind of scavenger fish can I keep with these nasty guys, and the third is are my tap water test results alright for this type of fish, they are as follows:

pH: 7.5
NH3/NH4+: 0mg/l
GH/KH: 14/9
NO2: <.03

One more thing, I have decided to go with some medium grade conrete sand made by quikrete for my substrate, but as the following picture shows, this sand does't seem to want to fall. This picture was taken almost 12 hours after I introduced the water to the sand. Is this normal?

[peifc]

Usually need 24 hours to 48 hours for the sand to settle. Turn off your filter for now and let the water slowly settle down. :)

[JSchmidt]

If you're using a filter that's colonized with beneficial bacteria (i.e., from a cycled tank or that was used during fishless cycling) you don't want to turn it off, or you'll kill all the bacteria. If it's a brand new filter with new media, turning it off will be OK.

Jim

[NatakuTseng]

Jewels will get too large for the tank, as well as being too active for it. You would be much better off looking in the direction of a dwarf cichlid for a tank that size.

[Goosteady]

Well here it is, day two. Yesterday I set up the tank with playsand and added water. Today I woke up and it was clear enough so I put an old filter, heater, and the slate in. About an hour ago I got these 4 dalmation mollies off a friend to help jumpstart this cycle. The tank is 17 gallons and I had several people tell me this wasn't large enough to keep a few jewels in, but I've had others tell me it is fine, so in lew of buying a new tank I am just going to run with it. I am quite pleased with the way the playsand/slate look has turned out (I've always had planted community tanks before). Do you all feel that 4 of these mollies are enough to get this cycle moving, or should I add a few more?

[NatakuTseng]

Look, Jewels will get around 8" and are extremely active, aggressive and breed just as easily as convicts. Convicts over all are a bit smaller, and I would not reccomend them, nor anyone who knows anything about the fish in a tank smaller than a 33 long. A 17 gal is hardly being enough for even two pairs of Dwarf cichlids, let alone fish like Jewels. Just "running" with this is not a smart thing to be doing, and not in the best interest of the fish.

[redparrotbubble]

Agreed the tank may be too small for jewels. they grow larger than most people think and for a tank that small they may not be a good choice. some dwarf cichlids would be a better choice.
-Mike

[PumaWard]

Jewels are like the african version of convicts. I would consider treating them almost identical to convicts. 20g min for ONE jewel, 29g min for a m/f pair.

Personally, I really think you should consider fishless cycling. I also don't consider mollies hardy enough to take cycling well... if you must cycle with fish, 4-6 zebra danios would be a better option.

[El Barto]

have you thought of kribs?its perfect size tank for 1 pair and they can raise a brood in there.you might get away with tankmates like snails, shrimp,ottos,more of a clenup crew relly . look into it. i absolutely adore my pair

[somefinnfishy]

Look, Jewels will get around 8" and are extremely active, aggressive and breed just as easily as convicts. Convicts over all are a bit smaller, and I would not reccomend them, nor anyone who knows anything about the fish in a tank smaller than a 33 long. A 17 gal is hardly being enough for even two pairs of Dwarf cichlids, let alone fish like Jewels. Just "running" with this is not a smart thing to be doing, and not in the best interest of the fish.

I,ve worked one of the biggest LFS in the midwest for years.
I have only seen one BIG jewel and it was only around 4.5"
i'm assuming 8" is 5 years down the road.
Also keep in mind they have been altering jewels for years (for color not size) I doubt most of the hundreds of morphed species going around could ever reach 8"

[NatakuTseng]

Sorry but working at a LFS no matter the size does not qualify as to being an expert about anything to do with fish. 8" is one of the larger sizes and for some of the larger species, but very few people and pet stores make the distinction between the species. Regaurdless a 17 gal is not suitable for them.

[somefinnfishy]

I didnt deserve that and I doubt you know more than I
Have you spawned jewels I HAVE!!! along with around 30 other species.I
know enough to run a 450 tank 20,000 gallon import/wholesale/retail by myself on a friday night.
My customers love me and I allways do right by them and the fish.
I saw over 2000 species of fish/livestock last year..
There tank is fine for now a 17 gallon is a nice home for awhile even
if if the have the ones that get 8".

[Goosteady]

I am sticking with the jewels. Within the next two years I will have a 90+ gallon tank anyway, so my fish won't be held back in their growing. As for the little tiff we have going on here, I would say to lighten up Nataku and have a little respect for those who may have more experience than you. The priggishness of the attitudes that the members of this board have is why you all are so worried about looking behind your backs for trolls instead of just having fun with the hobby. I am a responsible fish keeper and know that my aquarium will be succesful because I'm confident that the size of my tank will adequately house a pair of jewels. To all of the members who've posted; thank you for your replies.

[NatakuTseng]

Its too small, period. Its not a proper environment for those Jewels, you ask for advice then turn around and slap people in the face when its not what you want to hear.

Fishy, ever think that maybe I have been in the same situation? Probably not. I liken breeding jewels to being african convicts, not much more.

[fish_breeder_05]

botias and plecos can handle the jewls

[somefinnfishy]

Sorry about the attitude everyone but this is not as cut and dried as we would like sometimes.

[NatakuTseng]

Its also not as fuzzy as you make it sound.

[wwildcats04]

im sorry but I find nataku to be one of the most experienced fish keepers on this forum. I can always rely on him/her for an honest answer with almost any species. I tend to believe that somebody who is in the process of raising around the neighborhood of 60 discus fry may know what they are talking about... call me crazy. I have never had affricans but I know that I would never even think to put them in a small tank like that because of how quarelsome they are plus they usually get huge. Being in a small tank will still stunt your fishes growth in those two years. Im sorry if I caused problems but I think nataku should be given some more respect... also if you are going to post questions listen to what 99% of the people on here said not just what one person said... I also worked at a LFS for years and my parents owned one, does that mean I am all of a sudden fish expert? no, I always come to the forum to ask questions

[NatakuTseng]

Raising Discus does not by any means qualify me as an expert in anything at all. I can teach/show anyone how to sucessfully keep and raise discus. Its just a matter of wanting to learn, and actively searching out that information to extend your knowledge. Something I do on a regular basis

Finn does have a point that nothing is set in stone, however what she is advocating would be like me advocating that its ok to keep two male bettas and 3 female bettas together in one tank just because I have done it with no problems and the 5 of them formed a shoal. I would never ever advocate to anyone to try that even though I have succesfully done it, it was simply an expiriment I tried based on my knowledge and understanding of the behavior of those fish and watching for changes in their behaviors to indicate to me if things would become a problem. Most people do not recognize some of the subtle changes in the way a fish moves, reacts to, or responds to other fish, but these can be BIG clues as to what they are thinking. Until you gain this knowledge from watching and begining to understand the behaviors of fish extensively, you shouldn't try things that have a high risk of failing and end up causing injury or harm to the fish.

[Emg]

OH PLease..... :rolleyes: Blah Blah Blah !

Boys...Boys......go sit in a corner for a bit and settle down ! Nat....Goose came in with a question...you gave him your advice as to what you thought would be the thing to do....he read it, considered it I'm sure, but even if he didn't consider if very hard....he decided to do his own thing....your responce, if any, should have been..."OK.....I advise against that but it's your tank and your fish. Have fun, hope it works out ok for you". And... you know....someone who really loves the hobby would sincerely hope it DID work out !

Nat, don't get your feelings hurt so quickly when someone decides to do something other than what you advise....what's it to you if they don't ? While involved in this hobby there is one thing I have learned.......not everything works out the same for everyone ! Some people have good luck doing things one way....that same way doesn't always work for someone else. If those fish are going to grow too big for the tank, I'm sure he will find that out and then do something to correct it...even so, I'm certainly sure he has plenty of time before they get to the point where he will have to do anything about it !

Jeepers....I feel like everybodies MOM here !!! :rolleyes:

OK..so no one asked me....but I have to break up nonesense like this all the time here at home...I have 3 kids and 2 of them are teenagers....it's just an old habit that comes with parenting...sorry if I butted in where I'm not welcomed..but my advice to you kids is to chill out and just enjoy the hobby without trying to force everyone to do things your way !

[Emg]

Ok...forget that last rant....guess I get tired of hearing that kind of baloney from my kids and don't want to read it here as well......next time I'll choose the option of just moving on elsewhere.... :girl:

[Dangerdoll]

Jeepers....I feel like everybodies MOM here !!! :rolleyes:

OK..so no one asked me....but I have to break up nonesense like this all the time here at home...I have 3 kids and 2 of them are teenagers....it's just an old habit that comes with parenting...sorry if I butted in where I'm not welcomed..but my advice to you kids is to chill out and just enjoy the hobby without trying to force everyone to do things your way !
this thread had the ingredients needed to potentially get ugly. I welcomed this response, Emg. I also agree, not everyone is going to have the same opinions as everyone else. If it works for someone, fine. Then maybe say it may have worked for some time but the longterm effects may be blah blah blah. Saying to someone though that it can work blah blah blah then ending in a short sentence that it's good for the time being, in my opinion misleads the reader. Some may not see it past "it's ok" and then wind up with sick or dea fish 6 months down the line wondering where they went wrong.. I, myself wouldn't start a fish in a tank that would not provide for it for the duration of the fish due to stunting and other problems... but people will still do it although with hope and education, they will think a little harder about their choices once the downfalls are presented.

(Emg, you're not the only ranter here ;) )

[Emg]

I understand that Doll...but you can't harang anyone into doing something they don't want to do. To warn them without getting rude about it....is a good thing...but when they decided not to take the advice offered I see no reason whatsoever to get so offended and nasty about it. Jeesh...grow up !

Some folks just have to see for themselves...and there's nothing wrong with that in my opinion.

[Dangerdoll]

I totally agree... there will be those that ask for advice and still do what they want or what they feel is best ... and yes, that's no reason to take things personally.... just know it's not your tank and at least you warned them and move on.... perhaps the first mistake for those asking is not following your advice (hypothetically), the next will be a lesson to them to maybe follow it next time. *sigh*

[Emg]

lol Doll...I seldom rant on the forums I visit...I do my best to be polite and helpful as much as I can....and keep a bit of humour on the side. I had just had to deal with an issue with my kids before getting to this thread....LOL....put me over the edge a bit... :rolleyes:

[Dangerdoll]

hehehe, Emg.... I think we have successfully hijacked this thread.... politely! LOL

[Emg]

I think your right...though I am also thinking we shamed those guys into hiding....lol...though a humorously meek "OK Mommie" from one of them would have been quite funny and ended the whole discussion in a nice way....... Ya gotta Love em ! :D

[somefinnfishy]

Raising Discus does not by any means qualify me as an expert in anything at all. I can teach/show anyone how to sucessfully keep and raise discus. Its just a matter of wanting to learn, and actively searching out that information to extend your knowledge. Something I do on a regular basis

Finn does have a point that nothing is set in stone, however what she is advocating would be like me advocating that its ok to keep two male bettas and 3 female bettas together in one tank just because I have done it with no problems and the 5 of them formed a shoal. I would never ever advocate to anyone to try that even though I have succesfully done it, it was simply an expiriment I tried based on my knowledge and understanding of the behavior of those fish and watching for changes in their behaviors to indicate to me if things would become a problem. Most people do not recognize some of the subtle changes in the way a fish moves, reacts to, or responds to other fish, but these can be BIG clues as to what they are thinking. Until you gain this knowledge from watching and begining to understand the behaviors of fish extensively, you shouldn't try things that have a high risk of failing and end up causing injury or harm to the fish.

yes you are completely right there! Unfortunatly my first tanks were all trial and error.
I fight the good fight but I can tell he is going to keep those fish in that tank
and actively seek out new tankmates.I will warn him and give him a choise or two for dither fish that might live and not add to much more crowding.
Another problem with some of all you advice is if you keep these fish in Ideal perfect water (not talking nitrogen cycle) they fight twice as hard and twice as often a little off is OK were not trying to spawn them yet.
I sell fish to a bunch of jerks with piranna at work i have gotten at least 30 of them to use pellets by telling them the healt probs and toxins involved with feeders here is the KEY! without losing the other 100 weekly feeder buyers because I preached pellets to them to mant times and pissed them off.
We cant answer questions by condeming people and giveing them absolutly no choises they wount return the fish. Now they dont want to come here AC because they are embarrased.They now will only listen to the guy selling him fish telling them anything to make the sale.
I have to comprimise my ethics all the time and just bite my tounge but its allways a pay off when some of them listen to me and correct their mistakes.

BTW I'm male dont know why I'm female in my profile