angel eggs

[Daisymay]

i am new to the site and am 16 yrs old and have a limited budget and i need a little help.....my angels have just laid eggs.......the eggs are a orange color.....does this mean that they are fertile or infertile...this is their 3rd batch and hopefully the first successful one.......i was not expecting them to lay and have no tank to set the eggs up in and i am using a 2G bucket that i keep my small fish in when cleaning the tank.....i have an airstone in there on a gentle flow near the eggs......like i said i am an amateur and this is the first time that i have actually removed the eggs...they were laid on the pipe coming from my filter which made for difficult removal......can anyone PLEASE give me some advice.....what am i doing wrong or is there anything i can do for now with the stuff that i have now.......

daisymay

[mooman]

Removing the eggs to a bucket with an airstone is a good first step. Add some Methyle blue to the water. This will keep the eggs from being attacked by fungus. It should be available from a local fish store. They can instruct you on how much to use. It is also helpful to remove eggs that turn white (this means that they are dead and being attacked by fungus that will soon spread to viable eggs).

If the eggs hatch, then you will need to hatch some baby brine shrimp to feed them. It's not too dificult, and instructions can be found on many web sites, just "google" (Baby brine shrimp hatching). You will need another tank to raise the fry however. It can be a simple set up composed of a 10g tank, sponge filter, and a heater (about $40 dollars). No lighting, gravel, or decoration is required. The sponge for the filter can be placed in your aquarium so that it already has the good bacteria growing on it and you can set up the fry tank in 10 minutes whenever you need it. Even if it is too late for this batch, the angels will soon produce another. It may take a awhile for you to get the hang of it and set up all the equipment, but hang in there. The first batch of fry the you raise succesfully will be worth it.

[Daisymay]

thank you

[redparrotbubble]

Agreed, although as the parents get more experienced you could probably leave the babies with them as this leaves less work for you in regards to the eggs. but it seems like you are doing everything right, and take the advice already given. also instead of baby brine shrimp you could also crush up flake food very finely to feed to the babies if you cant find the shrimp locally.HTH.
-Mike

[Daisymay]

really??? all i have heard was the baby brine shrimp.....this is the 1st time they have actually been fertile......i ahve lost some as they are white today.....i ahve to remove them.........maybe i will get SOME to hatch...i wuold be happy with just one just so that i know that i can do it and no what i am doinf for next time!!!! thank you all!!!!

[mooman]

I would go with frozen alternatives over crushed flake. If you can get them to eat it, then flake would work fine, but most newly hatched cichlids will not accept it as a first food. Look for frozen bbs, and a frozen food called cyclop-ez as alternatives to hatching bbs yourself.

[PumaWard]

It is far more preferable to allow the angels to raise their own young, FYI.

It seems to be a never ending cycle that angels eat their eggs and their offspring are allowed to reproduce even though they weren't raised by their parents and then always eat their own eggs. I would allow the eggs to stay with the parents for the next few months (this may involve the parents eating the eggs repeatedly), to see if your angels raise their own young. IMO, once they raise their own, it is also more rewarding.

How old are your angels?

[mooman]

It is far more preferable to allow the angels to raise their own young, FYI.

Did you mean FYI or IMO? I'm 99% behind letting cichlids raise thier own young, but with angels, and to a lesser extent rams, this could take years and might never happen in a community settup. I advocate removing the eggs in this situation since daisy is interested in trying her hand at breeding, and I would like to see her succeed in the near future (nothing like raising a few fry to get a young hobbiest hooked).

Puma brings up a good point. However, the fact is if the hobby had to rely on angels that were raised by the parents, then people would be paying two to three times as much for them. This would put them way beyond the price most amateur hobbiests would pay for them.

[SnakeIce]

what is preferable about them raising their own young is that such behavior is a part of what angels are. if they are to inept to do so then something isn't right with them and as exciting as raising baby fish is, making special efforts to do so if they won't on their own isn't helping angelfish in our hobby.

[mooman]

what is preferable about them raising their own young is that such behavior is a part of what angels are. if they are to inept to do so then something isn't right with them

I understand this, and agree 100%, but come on... We're talking about a fish species that is so inbred that a huge portion of the young shows mild to severe fin and spine defects. One new breeder raising some fry artificially is the least of our worries, and will have ZERO effect on the hobby as a whole. What it will do is give her a chance to practice the skills she will need to feed and grow-up future spawnings from any number of other cichlid species.

BTW At the risk of sounding too confrontational (not my objective). How sure are you that every angel you've ever purchased has been raised by the mother? I'm glad this topic was brought up, and its important that daisy is aware of this issue, but in this particular instance it's simply not necessary for her to worry about it.

[PumaWard]

Many are raised by their parents. I understand her hand raising a batch, and I'm all for it. However, to continually do so I am not. I was simply adding information that was not yet stated. Also, the parent fish have not yet been giving the chance to do this themselves. I think allowing them to figure it out on their own should be advocated... and I might add that watching them as parents in their *natural* behavior is far more rewarding (at least for me) than if I did it myself.

BTW, I meant FYI. Biologically, from the standpoint of a hobbyist, and knowing most (insert responsible if you wish) angel breeders allow their angelfish to raise their own fry. Its not natural for angelfish to continually eat their eggs, and if they do so, IMHO, those fish should not be allowed to produce offspring. From the hobbyist point of view, I would like to have my own angelfish raise their own fry. Why would I want to buy angels that have been artificially raised for generations? How are they supposed to know how and get it right? Most likely, they never will. Raising their young continues the circle.

If I intented to breed angels, I would buy only those raised by their parents... this philosophy extends to any fish known to eat their eggs including discus and rams... I will not knowingly purchase artificially raised fish for breeding purposes.... however, for a show tank, I don't care if I don't have a choice, I just want a nice looking fish.... but I will still definetly pick parents raised fish over any other, for the sole purpose of supporting this practice.

[SnakeIce]

I will admit that the angel I have is a stunted mutt as far as possessing desireable behavior. He also won't be seeing another angelfish unless he happens to be the third wheel if for some reason I have to put him in with other angels.

I got him befor I learned much about such, and the next angels I get will have been raised by the parents.

As far as practice raiseing fry goes, there are any number of easy to spawn fish that could be utilised. I have raised danios, and serpae tetras. Both of those I collected the newborn fry out of the gravel in the community tank the parents were in.

Daisymay,
learn what you can with this experience. If you manage to raise some, make sure the angels you give to others are the best of your batch. You have to take the place of the preditors that would cull the deformed ones.

[redparrotbubble]

Another plus to letting the parents raise the babies is that they babies will tend o grow faster and obtain knowledge (i guess you could say that) from their parents. i dont think i would ever take the eggs out from the parents because the parents need to learn how to care for their own young which makes it a lot easier for the hobbyist who just takes the babies out when the parents are ready to breed again and the fry have grown considerably.
-Mike