How fast do they grow?

[jaylin]

Electric Yellow Cichlid - Labidochromis caeruleus

I'm curious to hear from people who keep these about how fast they grow?

Meaning, I saw a couple of these at a pet store that, at the moment could easily be kept in a 10 gal tank (they're smaller than your average platty right now), but how long would it be before they're needing more space? How long until they reach their full potential? Correct me if I'm wrong, but they get up to about 5" right?

[sumthin fishy]

5" is a good #. You should start them in a tank that they will grow into, not start them in a small tank then move them later. I have not kept yellows, but other mbunas I've had reached arround 5 inches in about 2 years (if memory serves correctly)

[jaylin]

You should start them in a tank that they will grow into, not start them in a small tank then move them later.

What's the logic behind that?

By the way, these guys would grow into a 10 gal. Right now they are tiny, tiny.

[CajunCC]

My malawi cichlids have been growing very very fast. Seems like every time I look at them, they're bigger.

[bob1962]

You will be just fine starting them in a 10 gallon as long as you have good filtration and aeriation.

[NatakuTseng]

Well Jay, taking Bob's advice there, all ya need to do is take a look at his tank specs to decide if you want to take that advice or not, I wouldn't.

the 36gal:
Oscars get 12-13" in a year- year and a half given proper care
Texas get 10-12"
Your "african cichlids" well that tells us next to nothing, though I assume they are malawi species, which are completely incompatible with the Oscars and Texas as well as the Clown Loaches, and potentially the plecos.
Clown Loaches get 12" and need warm super clean water to stay healthy
The "plecos" which I assume are just your common ones, will easily get 16"+

Basically that tank is sick and shows absolutely no respect for the fish, IF all of them were compatible with each other you would easily need a MINIMUM of a 150gal to properly house them all.

the 10gal:
Chances are you either have a ghost or clown knife, the clowns get 30-36" easily in captivity, while Ghosts get to 19-20". Both compltely unsuited for a 10gal, in fact all knives shouldn't be kept in anything that small.

Again the "African cichlids" issue, most likely Malawis, nothing that is suitable or compatible with the knives or pelcos.

The plecos get 16"+ as I listed previously, and not suited for a 10gal.

Yet another grossly overstocked tank, no respect for the fish, and no notion of knowing anything about compatibility between species, let alone identifying them correctly. IF these species were compatible you would need a very large aquaria for a clownknife alone, 200gal+ and at least a 125gal with the ghost knife.


Jay, The logic behind starting them in a tank that will be suitable for their adult size is quite clear, you won't have to change tanks once they start to get larger for one, and as they mature (mind you they will get territorial and such long before reaching adult hood) they will have adaquate space to establish territories and lessen the chance of having issues around that in the future. IF all you can do is a 10gal, I would suggest looking at other species of fish to stock in it.

[bob1962]

Now that is pretty judgemental NatakuTseng, how do you know my fish are not happy, you dont know a thing about my aquarium, like I am gonna spend a lot of money of fish just to abuse them. Maybe I dont like those boring understocked aquariums? Maybe you are the extreme?

[f8ldzz]

I bought my electric yellows at around 1.5" to 2.0".
They grew up to 3" to 3.5" pretty darn fast!
I'd say within 2 - 3 months they got that big.
They were originally in a 10G, which is way too small but they are all in a 60G now.
They are all now about 4.0" to 4.5" now over the next two months, and they have been like this for the past month, so I think their growth is slowing down?
So I'd say they would easily outgrow the 10G in 2 - 3 months!

[sumthin fishy]

Now that is pretty judgemental NatakuTseng, how do you know my fish are not happy, you dont know a thing about my aquarium, like I am gonna spend a lot of money of fish just to abuse them. Maybe I dont like those boring understocked aquariums? Maybe you are the extreme?
Had there been no explination as to why they won't be happy I might agree. But facts were stated and they are correct. Will you be getting a 100+gallon tank for any of these fish when need be, or will they be stuck in a 12" deep aquarium when they are 14, 16, 20 inches long. Will you wait untill they have developed health problems to move them, or are you currently saving for that new tank?

Jaylin-You can find some rationale in what I said yesterday in my :rant2: above. While it seemms fine for them to be in there now, when they mature there may be health problems resulting from stunted growth, and aslo as stated, territorial issues. Since they will not get over 12", there is less an issue of them not being able to turn arround, but not having enough room to exercise is the point there. If thats where you have them now(in a 10) fine, but start saving up for a bigger tank so you can move them soon.

[bob1962]

Had there been no explination as to why they won't be happy I might agree...........

Well the topic really had nothing to do with my aquarium. I was raising tropical fish when I was knee high. I had 7 Texas Cichlids in a 20 Gallon tank back then, they all did fine on an old bubble filtration tank.

You will be just fine starting them in a 10 gallon as long as you have good filtration and aeriation.

I am just posting my experience with aquariums

[jaylin]

If thats where you have them now(in a 10) fine, but start saving up for a bigger tank so you can move them soon.

So nice to have your apporoval, but, I don't even own a 10 gal and the little buggers are still at the LFS ... I do my homework before buying fish. I gave the 10 gal as a guidline for their current size. I didn't think you'd assume I'd already purchased the fish and thrown them into a 10 gal tank.

I see your point, but it goes right out the window when I think about putting little fish in a bigger tank with fish that are already bigger than they are. I'm serious when I say these guys are small. They have a tank with "misc. cichlids" at the LFS all of which are about the size of a jumbo neon tetra (I downgraded from the platty because I got a second, closer look). I'm sure they are in that tank together because they're too small to be with the "babies" of their own species. I've seen feeder that are 4 times their size. Health and territory aside ... they'd stand no chance if they become someone else's dinner. Am I right, or am I right?

You might disagree, but I have no qualms allowing a fish to grow up in smaller tank and then transfering them to a larger tank. How else do you replace old fish that die in larger tanks without putting out a lot of cash to buy one that large anyway? You still end up dealing with transfer and territory issues but then you don't know how the fish was raised ... So, my thoughts are: if the tank suits the fish at the moment, it's fine.

That said, I'm confused also about what size tank they need as adults anyway. This site says a 20 gal (which doesn't sound right to me at all) and F&S says 50 gal. :confused: I'm having thoughts about a 29 gal I have, but if they are going to outgrow a 29 in under two years, I think I might do something different.

And I really am looking to hear from people who own this species. According to F&S, they are "A peaceful and shy cichlid when compared to the temperament of other African Cichlids, Electric Yellow would be considered semi-aggressive in a standard fresh water aquarium." :huh: So, what applies for other Malawian cichlids might not be totally accurate for these guys.

I can find websites with info all day long, but nothing speaks louder to me than experience. What f8ldzz told me was the most useful information I've heard. And ... f8ldzz ... My guess is that you wouldn't recommend a 29 gal (at adult size) for them either?

http://www.aquariacentral.com/species/db.cgi?db=fresh&uid=default&ID=0372&view_records=1

http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_Display.cfm?pCatId=839

[NatakuTseng]

Well help us out a bit here, How many do you want to keep as adults? Are you looking for the absolute minimum tank size for them, a midway point, or a great tank size for them?


Bob, you have no respect for those fish or ones you have had in the past, just because it works doesn't mean its healthy for the fish. What your doing to those fish is no better than what puppy mills do, cram as much as you can into one space, they live so they must be fine. How sad that is.

[jaylin]

OK, here is more info than you wanted/needed.

I have a 29 gal that I've started to set up as salt water, but ... I've been hit with extra financial things (gas being one of them ... ) so while I can afford the tank, I really can't afford to do salt water the way I'd like to. I haven't quite decided yet, but my thought ... maybe quit while I'm not too far behind here and go freshwater. BUT, I do not want a 29 gal of your standard tropical fishies.

Here's the catch - I have less than a year and a half of school left. I'll graduate Dec 07 and at that time I'll decide if I'm going to go someplace else for grad school, stay here for grad school or get a job ... most of those options mean a move, and I'm not willing to set up a 125 and move it in less than a year and a half. A 29, no problem.

I know I like the africans. If I can find some guys who will be ok for a year and a half or so in a 29 ...

Eventually, I do want another 125. I had one before with south americans and I loved it. (All of those fish started out in a 10, to a 20 to a 55 ... ). Some grew up fast, some didn't. That's why I'm asking. I'm information gathering at this point trying to decide which way I want to go. (Oscars are OUT of the question!) Salt is still an option, but the way things are going it will be months and months before I can get the tank set up to accomodate the things I'd like to put into it and ... I want fish a little faster than all that.

Capisci?

[NatakuTseng]

Alright, have you looked into any of the Tanyganikan species? One the Leleupis while getting 4" (males) are much much more slender than the labidochromis, yet still have that nice yellow or even orange varieties are available. You could easily house a trio, one male to two females in a 29gal. For a 29gal I would suggest looking into the tang species, they remain smaller for the most part, and are much more suited to smaller aquaria.

[f8ldzz]

I can find websites with info all day long, but nothing speaks louder to me than experience. What f8ldzz told me was the most useful information I've heard. And ... f8ldzz ... My guess is that you wouldn't recommend a 29 gal (at adult size) for them either?
The recommended ratio is 3F for 1M.
I have 2F and 1M - they seem to be okay.

A mating pair in a 29G is perfectly fine.

If we're trying to hit the 3F : 1M ratio, the 29G would be absolute smallest they should be in, and something bigger would be highly recommended.

I think you can get away with the 29G with 2F : 1M.

Unless you're very lucky with 1F : 1M, when the M gets sexually mature, he will harass the F to spawn.
Having additional F's around will divide the M's attention, and it's better for the other (F) fish.

Good luck!

[bob1962]

Well Jay, taking Bob's advice there,
the 10gal:
Chances are you either have a ghost or clown knife, the clowns get 30-36" .

http://www.*****************/catalog_pages/wild/knifefish_clown.htm

[jaylin]

Alright, have you looked into any of the Tanyganikan species?

I have looked at a few of those. I do prefer the Malawians, but I'm not dead set on anything yet.

So let me ask you this: What about mixing species? I'm not really wanting to breed fish and if I were to get three fish, I'd prefer that they look differently. Are there three of the Tanyganikans (or more) that could coexist in a 29?

I'm also a huge fan of filling in layers in a tank - top, mid, bottom - and with having a lot of live plants and even inverts.

So let me make this easier - if you had a 29 and were going to do a Tanyganikan tank, what would you have in it?

[jaylin]

Oh, and f8ldzz thanks so much. That's very helpful information.

And Bob ... well, hi Bob. Why don't you sit down and have some lemonaid. You know, relax a bit. :)

[mooman]

Tang tanks are great for mxing species and having different levels because you can always throw in some shell dwellers. My ideal 29g tang tank would have a texas limestone reef that reached nearly to the top of the tank and have a fine sand substrate up front. I would have a trio of either julies, or a trio of another small rockdweller species (Leleupis fit the bill nicely). Then I would have a species of shellie (oceletus perhaps) that would fill the bottom sandy area. You might be able to do a second species of rockdweller if you piled the reefs up on opposite sides of the tank, but don't quote me on that. whala! Instant biotope appopriate Lake Tang tank with not just multiple species (like Hap or Mbuna tanks) but multiple ecological niches and behavior patterns.

[NatakuTseng]

Whats your point Bob? Thats just a juvi clown they have there, not what they max out at. Get a clue dude, that clown will get larger than the 10gal.

Jay, with a 29gal I would consider having a trio of Leleupis or a trio of one of the larger Julidochromis species, a pair of Brevis shellies, or a trio of Ocellatus shellies. For a larger fish you could also do a pair or trio of Altolamprologus calvus, mind you if you get them at a small size around 1", it will take them YEARS to grow to an adult size of 5-6". The one I have is growing at an average rate, mind you I've had it for about a year and a half now, got him at 1" and he is just barely 2" now. As a general rule of thumb tangs grow extremely slow.

Just do some looking around at Tang species, find some things that catch your eye, do your research into them, and if you need help finding them, let me know I will be more than willing to help ya out.

[dlau21]

jaylin, u dont like the new world cichlids? them central american cichlids tend to grow a bump on their heads called , i believe, nuchal humps, and they are quite attractive Id say...jus my opinion. But since you are going to move in about a year and a half, Id definitely go wit the TANG cichlids, since they grow very slow, as it was stated earlier by natsaku...it would just be an easier move! just my opinion.

Bob, I dont know if you ever bothered to do any research, but danm, ur tank specs are ridiculous! Just to some research...I did mine and seen the light. Im crankin on gettin a bigger tank for my guys! Cant be stubborn with live creatures.

[jaylin]

When you're talking about rocks and driftwood for a Tang tank, what the cheapest route without compromising the fish (or looking too ugly)? I'd love to do biotope appopriate, but $$'s matter here. For the time being, I'm willing to compromise.

And I like south americans just fine. I'd just want a much larger tank if I was going to do them.

[NatakuTseng]

Well as far as rocks go, 99% of them you find outside, you can use in the tank. Just boil them for a bit, and your ready to go. Set up a little cascading wall from back to mid point of the tank and it will be fine. Conditioning the water is super easy for rift lake cichlids, some baking soda and epsom salts do the trick. You want your pH at 8.0-8.5 and hard water, gH above 10. I know I listed before somewhere on here (maybe no this thread) more precisely what they need.

[jimmyyahoo]

Jay first thing youll want to do is find out what kinda water you have. Odds are you have hard water, which most of us do. Its a hell of a task tryin to make hard water soft. So assuming you have hard water id say lean towards the african cichlids. Also stick with your original thought and stay with the Malawians. They tend to stay smaller and are a *bit* less aggressive than their lake neighbors.

Pissed of cichlids in a smallish tank is the first thing youll notice. One will assume dominance and harrass the rest of the fish to either death or to a pale ghost hiding near the filter.

Start with two fish of different colors, maybe a yellow lab and a demonsi. You may have to go through a couple different pairs. Returning the fish that tend to be too aggressive and completely dominate the tank.

My suggestion for a cheap tank would be to pick up some sand from you HD or Lowes. The cheap stuff is fine as long as yer willin to mix it up a bit every once in a while. Also hit up you local rock yard, youll find all the rock youll need for an unbelievably cheap price. I got enough for my 60 gallon for under 20 bucks. Find the holey stuff or something with crevices in it, point is to provide some caves. Stay away from driftwood in the tank. Not really a part of their natural habitat nor are plants.

Youll find these guys to be incredible characters. Once ya set things up well you can even add some other smaller fish like zebra danios to act as dither fish to really bring out the cichlids personalities.

Good Luck
Jimmy

[bob1962]

Well as far as rocks go, 99% of them you find outside, you can use in the tank. Just boil them for a bit, and your ready to go. Set up a little cascading wall from back to mid point of the tank and it will be fine. Conditioning the water is super easy for rift lake cichlids, some baking soda and epsom salts do the trick. You want your pH at 8.0-8.5 and hard water, gH above 10. I know I listed before somewhere on here (maybe no this thread) more precisely what they need.

I took my rocks right out of the creek, and put them in their imediately, no boiling just real rock with real algae and creek slime on them. The fish love em, the plecos and loaches like them especially.

[NatakuTseng]

Thats a risk you can choose to take Bob, but don't advocate to anyone else to try that. Taking rocks from aquatic environments poses some huge potential risks. One being the algea you mentioned, easily could spread in the tank fast enough. Another is bringing hitchhikers in. These could be anything from snails, crayfish larvae, water bettles, to dangerous parasites. Obviously some are more dangerous than others, but its not worth the risk, I like my fish, I like them healthy, and if I can limit the risk of causing problems I'll do it. Boiling will eliminate the hitch hikers and algea. Just comes down to a matter of being safe, and not taking avoidable risks. Sure you could do what you do 100 times, but that 101st time could be the one that you bring something in that kills off all your fish.

[mooman]

Also stick with your original thought and stay with the Malawians. They tend to stay smaller and are a *bit* less aggressive than their lake neighbors.
I might be wrong, but the smallest malawi (yellow lab) gets about 4-5in, while the smallest Tangs (shelldwellers) can be as small as 1in (multis) and have the smallest cichlid territory in the world (brevis, about 4in around thier shells). I also have to dissagree with your suggestions on how to set up a malawi tank (first off i've heard a 29g is too small). If you do, you should introduce all the fish at once as juviniles, and you should DO YOUR RESEARCH FIRST!! Don't put yourself, your fish, and your LFS through a trial and error mixed malawi tank.

I would invest in one of the comercial cichlid mix sands, and save money by using a limestone based rock from a landscape supply yard. They will naturally buffer your water up to the appropriate ph and hardness. You can do as Nataku suggests (most rift lake keepers do), but I have found additives to be unecessary if you do small regular water changes and have plenty of calcium based rock and substrate in the tank.

Lastly, I agree wholeheartedly that you should treat any rocks taken from local waterways before introducing them into the tank. I suggest baking the rocks at 350 for about an hour instead of boiling. It gets the rocks hotter, you can treat more at once, and the dry heat will kill more bacteria (if your worried about that).

Good Luck

[PumaWard]

Malawi cichlids generally get larger and are more aggressive than tangs.

Tanganyika has a whole host of species which are listed as dwarf cichlids and many others that are pretty darn close.

[jaylin]

Well, I think what I have is going to be broken down and used as a Tanganyikan tank.

I live really close to Pueblo Res. so I'll go rock hunting this weekend (and I'll boil them) and I'll start the thing cycling later today.

Now, were can I find some good Tangs?

[f8ldzz]

Check out http://www.aquabid.com/
I gotta warn you, you're going to get hooked! :)
They have a LARGE assortment of African cichlids, and it's kinda neat if you're first getting into the hobby to see what is available out there!

[jaylin]

I suggest baking the rocks at 350 for about an hour instead of boiling.

Baked rock .... sounds like something I'd cook anyway. :D