View Full Version : fish have feelings!
ccclifford
09-11-2005, 7:15 PM
There are some people who keep beta fish in tanks the size of a baseball. I might be wrong but I think thats creul to them. (I'm kind of new at this) but I think thats cruel to them i know that they don't move around much. But they don't have much space to live in. PS you could at least use a fish bowl.
aquariumhobyist
09-11-2005, 7:18 PM
they dont like to have alot of swimming room and they arent the most active swimmers either.
ccclifford
09-11-2005, 7:22 PM
I know but it still seems cruel.
JinxXx0085
09-11-2005, 7:25 PM
my blue betta lives in 1 gallon tank and he always swim all over the little tank. He was in 29g but he kept getting his tail chewed off by some fish. IMO more than 1 gallon would be great for betta. 5gal is even better.
oh you are so wrong, they do like having room. Are you nuts? please dont give any more advice...
my bettas enjoy space, mine are all in 2.5 gal and up (one in a 40gal and he is loving it)... it is like saying bettas can only be kept alone... no they can be kept with other fish as long as it is not another betta or another fish that are fin nippers. educate your self before giving advice. Bettas do like having hiding places and lots of them which is pretty true for MOST fish. Would you like to be cramped? nope. hell all of my bettas have filters and heaters... they are fish too and deserve clean water and warm water...
also, everything depends on the fish they are all different just like people... a large majority of male bettas are peaceful and go with the flow... you have ot know your fish....
Stefanie
09-11-2005, 7:34 PM
I have to agree. I have one betta in a 20G community tank (no nippy fish), and one in a 10G tank, that he only shares with two bottom fish. They love it and play in the current, or just hang out in the plants. They are pretty active fish, when given the chance to actually swim.
Jericho
09-11-2005, 7:57 PM
The reason why betas do not move a lot in a bowl or a cup as you find in the stores is because they are warm water fish and the cool water they are kept in makes them lethargic. You need to read up on the beta or any fish you are going to own and give them a healthy environment.
sublime1184
09-11-2005, 8:24 PM
they dont like to have alot of swimming room...
hahahahahaa :laugh: thats one of the goofiest things I've ever heard about fish...
fishinAZ
09-11-2005, 8:27 PM
My betta loves his big tank with lots of space to swim. Uses the whole tank to swim in too....
svtcontour
09-11-2005, 8:48 PM
I had a Betta in a 38 gallon for a long time but one day he mysteriously vanished. I suspect some kind of illness and then the huge tennis ball sized applesnail must have gotten to the body....
Anyway he loved the space. It was a planted tank with a lot of nooks and crannies so ne would poke around a lot. He was quite the busy body. I think the minimum for a betta is a 1 gallon but a 5 gallon or 10 gallon would be an ideal home in my opinion.
reignman40
09-11-2005, 8:50 PM
Saying Bettas don't like the extra room is just pure ignorance. With actual experience anyone could tell you their behavior differs quite a bit from being in smaller tanks to being in 10-20 gallon tanks and up. I have had bettas in 5 gallon setups, 20 gallon community, and early on I've kept them in smaller bowl type setups.
Bettas thrive with plants/decor to swim around and IME have done so much better in larger tanks. I keep my betta's in nothing less then 2.5 gallons of water now and all have heating and filtration.
Bettas need space, they can live in those small tanks, just like you could live in apartment that is 8x3x8 apartment (you could have a bed in there) but would you be happy in that sized living space?? well the betta is the same way. My 4 bettas are soooo happy in their 10 gallon tanks.
devon 88
09-11-2005, 9:25 PM
Bettas don't like big tanks there like to be in little tanks bec thats what there live in the wild in.
FishFreak101
09-11-2005, 9:27 PM
sorry devon but i have to disagree!
Oh I did not know that a rice patty in Asia was like a small tank. Maybe only during the dry season, but not all year round.
sublime1184
09-11-2005, 9:36 PM
sorry devon but i have to disagree!
don't be sorry, devon is obviously joking or just had a lapse
yohkos
09-11-2005, 9:45 PM
Every betta I have had enjoys having space to swim. I have only had one betta that did not like being in a community tank or maybe he did, but he was too bossy. He is now in a 10 gallon with cories.
Jericho
09-12-2005, 12:55 AM
Habitat/Care: Bettas are one of the most recognized, most colorful, and often most controversial fish in the freshwater hobby. Debates range on about the appropriateness of keeping them in small bowls. To fully understand their needs it is important to become familiar with their native habitat. Bettas originate in the shallow waters in Thailand (formerly called Siam, hence their name), Indonesia, Malaysia, Vietnam, and parts of China. They proliferate rice paddies, shallow ponds, and even slow moving streams.
Although many fish keepers are aware that Bettas come from shallow waters, a key factor that is often overlooked is the water temperature. These countries are tropical, which means the water temperature is quite warm - often reaching into the 80's. Bettas thrive on heat, and will become increasingly listless when the water temperature falls below 75 degrees F. Water temperature is perhaps the biggest argument against keeping a betta in a tiny bowl (which cannot readily be heat controlled).
Even though Bettas do well in waters low in dissolved oxygen, that does not mean they require less oxygen than other fish. Bettas have a special respiratory organ that allows them to breath air directly from the surface. In fact they inherently must do so. In experiments where the labyrinth organ was removed, the fish died from suffocation even though the water was saturated with oxygen. For this reason, Bettas must have access to the water surface to breath air directly from the atmosphere.
Optimally the water for keeping healthy Bettas should be soft, warm, with a neutral to slightly acidic pH. Water movement should be kept to a minimum, which means that power filters and powerheads are not suitable. Bettas may be kept in a community tank as long as the water conditions are met, and if no aggressive or fin-nipping fish are present. However, only one male may be kept in each aquarium, unless they are separated by a barrier.
The use of plastic boxes that hang inside the aquarium are a suitable option for keeping more than one betta in a tank, or for keeping them in a tank with fish that might nip their fins. Females will generally not fight with each other, and may be kept in the same tank.
NOTE: Selling a betta in a vase with a Peace Lily has become in vogue. However, a flower vase is not a suitable environment for the betta.
Taken from http://freshaquarium.about.com/cs/anabantids2/p/betta.htm
khombre
09-12-2005, 4:59 AM
maybe bettas live in small plastic cups in the wild hehe just kidding..
honestly though, i feel bad seeing the ones placed in plastic cups...
i was at a lfs once, one of the bettas apparently got tired of living in a plastic cup and jumped off and fell to the floor..
the guy at the lfs saw this and did nothing, i had to put it back myself, the guy had no concern whatsoever..
that was sad, i would have bought it to save it from there but all my thanks are full... i have space in my 30 g but there are tiger barbs in there and im afraid the barbs might nip on its fins :mad:
mvigor
09-12-2005, 10:53 AM
Bettas don't like big tanks there like to be in little tanks bec thats what there live in the wild in.
Devon-
In the wild Bettas live in little tanks? That would be wild to see. Do you have any pictures as a reference?
lilsexyred
09-12-2005, 12:38 PM
i brought my father to the pet store with me yesterday and while i was looking at bigger fish tanks he felt sorry for all the betta sitting on the shelf in the little bowls he dumped about 15 bowls into what he thought was a empty tank as i caught him dumping the last one i yelled dad no they will kill each other almost as soon as i said that a huge fish ( dont know what kind it was) came from behind a piece of drift wood in the tank and swallowed every last betta my father had dumped in the last ones tail hanging from his mouth for about 35 seconds i was so upset and my father felt horrible needless to say i think the betta would have been happier in there small cups and it cost us 2.99 a fish for every empty bowl.so im thinking in the wild these betta either will kill each other or be killed maybe it is a good thing we keep them in tanks!
VTwinFanatic
09-12-2005, 12:52 PM
Bettas are much like any other fish, they will live in a small bowl :mad: but it will stunt their growth and they wont live as long. I presently have Four bettas and the smallest tank/ bowl that they reside in is 1 gal. Two of them are in a divided 2.5 gal which they seem to love being able to flare at each other and try to chase each other's food. But I have a problem with the bettas being in the small cups in the stores, this in turn can/will pose another problem being that i start my job at the LFS tomorrow...i have a feeling that my dorm room will have to accomidate a few more bettas along w/ my 10gal community (i have 4 dwarf gourami in there or one betta would be welcome to live happily) :dive2:
YoFishboy
09-12-2005, 12:55 PM
i brought my father to the pet store with me yesterday and while i was looking at bigger fish tanks he felt sorry for all the betta sitting on the shelf in the little bowls he dumped about 15 bowls into what he thought was a empty tank as i caught him dumping the last one i yelled dad no they will kill each other almost as soon as i said that a huge fish ( dont know what kind it was) came from behind a piece of drift wood in the tank and swallowed every last betta my father had dumped in the last ones tail hanging from his mouth for about 35 seconds i was so upset and my father felt horrible needless to say i think the betta would have been happier in there small cups and it cost us 2.99 a fish for every empty bowl.so im thinking in the wild these betta either will kill each other or be killed maybe it is a good thing we keep them in tanks!
Oh God....sorry, I don't mean to be cruel...but that is one of the funniest things i've ever read on AC...
wataugachicken
09-12-2005, 1:18 PM
is your dad, like. . . five? regardless of the fish's little bowls or the possible cruelty to animals, you don't go into someone's place of business and start rearranging all their stuff. they have it that way for a reason. bettas and oscars (probably what it was) and more bettas don't get along, and at the grocery store you shouldn't take all the milk out of the coolers and leave it in the bread aisle.
i totally would have made him put down an at-cost deposit on the big fish in case it died from overeating in the next day or so. i can only imagine what would have happened if he'd thrown them into a saltwater tank. . .
And I don't think your dad's mistake has anything to do with this discussion- rice paddies are enormous, they have tons of room to stake out a territory. They have been a viable species in the wild for thousands of years what makes you think suddenly tiny plastic cups are making their lives better?
lilsexyred
09-12-2005, 3:07 PM
[QUOTE=wataugachicken]is your dad, like. . . five? regardless of the fish's little bowls or the possible cruelty to animals, you don't go into someone's place of business and start rearranging all their stuff. they have it that way for a reason. bettas and oscars (probably what it was) and more bettas don't get along, and at the grocery store you shouldn't take all the milk out of the coolers and leave it in the bread aisle.
actually no he isnt five.and i understand how he felt if you walked by a homless person who was sleeping in a computer box and you had a refrigerator box would you not give him the bigger box? He paid for his mistake with credit card and now he knows i just thought i would share my experience with everyone so they know what could happen if you tried to be some kind of betta rescue without any knowledge of the fish.
Yup fish have feelings - the big fish was feeling hungry and now he's feeling full.
Two feelings I'm very familar with.
FisheyLisa
09-12-2005, 3:56 PM
http://www.bettadreams.com/ricepaddies.html
Everyone..if you don't know where bettas come from , esp if you plan to care for one...PLEASE GO HERE!!!! From Bettadreams these are what betta paddies look like. I need to book mark this site, this discussion is repeated so often!!
Mine is in a 30g and swims everywhere. I don't know who said they were lazy...??!! Their preferred temp is 78 degrees at which point they are quite active. along with healthy water and varied diet, I can't see how they wouldn't be! You only need to type betta into google to research this stuff ppl!! YOu don't even need to leave your house! Or open a book...OMG sorry I am on a rant, but I remember busting my butt to research stuff in a LIBRARY with books and ...never mind. It seems it is the unresearched advice givers who are the lazy ones.
as for feelings...not even our large pets have human emotions, we just place them there, so a fish couldn't possibly...Instinct that you are the food giver, but nothing else. They don't know what they are missing when they are in a cup, only that there temp is low so they don't feel like moving...or they will bump into the side and that is undesirable.
Yes its cruel to treat animals wrong, but honestly they don't "know" better as we "know" better (or as some of us don't "know" better.)
nomadofthehills
09-12-2005, 4:04 PM
In work in a Petstore, and I understand the betta cups. We sell 50-100 bettas a week (petsmart). I always recomend at least a 1g bowl, but many do not care. What else can I do other than give them a caresheet and tell them that the fish willl be unhappy/healthy? "My firnd has one for 2 years in a little bowl" and I say they can live 5+.
It is not economical to keep them in anyhing larger.
FisheyLisa
09-12-2005, 4:20 PM
The cups are reasonable for a container to be sold in...all fish are kept in crowded conditions, or else a shop would need a million tanks, or have to sell on order by order basis...
but when you get home, you should have an appropriate home...you don't keep a german shepard in a 5 x 5 crate all day everyday if that is your pet.
At the very least, I would think that you'd get a fish to watch it swim and be active, and that even the uneducated, most selfish person would go for that...and those conditions call for at least a heated (some how kept around 78 degrees) 1g with healthy water.
Oh well, to each his own. Sorry this doesn't help the original post either.
YoFishboy
09-12-2005, 4:21 PM
lilsexyred:
actually no he isnt five.and i understand how he felt if you walked by a homless person who was sleeping in a computer box and you had a refrigerator box would you not give him the bigger box? He paid for his mistake with credit card and now he knows i just thought i would share my experience with everyone so they know what could happen if you tried to be some kind of betta rescue without any knowledge of the fish.
Hey...your Dad's heart was in the right place....
Chill:
Yup fish have feelings - the big fish was feeling hungry and now he's feeling full. Two feelings I'm very familar with.
Hehe..I would have to agree with that logic...
lilsexyred
09-12-2005, 6:01 PM
i just wanted to clear up i did not agree with keeping betta in small bowls i have 3 here at my house and 2 of them are in 1 gallon tanks 1 of them is in a 2 gallon tank i am thinking about stealing emg's idea and making my 10 gallon a betta tank for 4 as soon as i get my 44 gallon
Lol Red.....that's not stealing.....it's a good idea and one I am happy to share.. :D
And I wouldn't dream of speaking ill of your dad for what he did.....I was raised to respect my elders and not to even THINK disrespectful thoughts of my parents for any reason. And besides....he learned a lesson all on his own without any of our input I might add...lol.... ;)
TheMightyQueenPixie
09-12-2005, 8:00 PM
Lil sexy: Your dads heart was in the right place...Sort of one of those good deeds gone horribly wrong...What is the saying "no good deed goes unpunished"?
Oh and comparing wild Bettas to the Betta splendens is like comparing Oscars to Guppys...The Splendens has been so selectively bred it barely resembles some of the wild Plakat, Coccina, etc....A splendens wouldnt last 2 mins in the wild...
jaylin
09-13-2005, 12:53 AM
Yup, the bettas you see at the store don't even look like the bettas in the wild.
The great betta debate. I'm sick of it. I can't see dedicating an entire 5-10 gal tank to one betta, but that's me. If someone else wants to do it, more power to them!
The title of this thread cracks me up! I just can't connect emotionally with fish. When one of mine dies, I think "bummer" and move on. Heck, I go fishing! I eat fish! ... they're fish!
If this sounds mean, then I suggest that the next time eat a buger you do it with a cow. It will really put things into perspective for you.
a buger or a burger? ;) Wild bettas differ from splendens in their finnage and coloration only, really. It is debatable, from what I understand, if spendens and imbellis are truly a separate species. So of course a big fancy crowntail isn't going to fare well in a rice paddy. But that doesn't mean that splendens can live well in a two ounce dribble of water or any of the idiotic contraptions marketed as betta housing. This arguement does get old but I see no reason for it to be offensive. If it annoys you that much I don't see why you take part.
edit- by the way I didn't mean that last bit to be as cranky as it sounds.
jaylin
09-13-2005, 9:27 AM
a buger or a burger? ;)
Wooooops! ;)
thought that might not be exactly what you meant ;)
jaylin
09-13-2005, 9:37 AM
Well, hey, you never know! ;)