Returning to the whole aquarium thing

[mcfencer25]

Hi all. I used to keep fish when I was younger (until my mom thought she was turning down the heater one summer night and actually turned it way up and killed my fish). I am going to start up again with a 55 gallon tank since I have the time and money to dedicate to it. I have a few basic pointers from a friend at work who also has a 55g tank (has had it for years):

He highly recommended getting an eheim filter, one of the ones with the bacterial filtration system that goes below the tank.

He also said that, when I set up the tank to first not put any fish in it for a few days to let the chlorine evaporate out. Next, I should buy about a dozen really cheap fish (betas or guppies) so that I have something in the tank to start the filter system up. He said not to expect the fish to live for too long. When he started his, he had all but one or two die. After that, I can start introducing fish. He said that I should wait about 2-3 weeks with the guppies in before stocking the tank with my final fish (I'd be keeping the surviving starter fish as well).

Should I follow this kind of procedure for set up? It makes sense when you think about how the filter works. I'm a little bothered about the fish die off but, on the other hand, it's highly likely that the betas or guppies would die in the pet store anyway (I'd be liberating them from a petco or petland discounts.....I see more dead fish in the ones by me than live ones at some times). The fish I plan on stocking my tank with would be purchased elsewhere...like from a place that knows what they're doing when it comes to fish.

My local water quality seems to be pretty good. I didn't really do much of anything to my first tank and only had one fish death due to bad advice about species compatability from the pet store (that's if you ignore my mom killing all my fish).

I also plan on putting an assortment of live plants in the tank. Any advice on how to deal with those. I have about a week's worth of research to do as well before I buy anything. But, any tips any of you can offer would be great.

Thanks a lot,
Matt

[cyberbeer65]

You can avoid the whole fish dieing thing by doing a fishless cycle.
Read the sticky on cycleing.

[jaylin]

Just FYI, it doesn't sound like your friend has all that much knowlege about fish tanks. Especially about starting them ...

You can cycle with fish and not kill your fish in the process. It requires a little knowlege of the nitrogen cycle (also called a biological filter) and a water test kit and some well timed water changes on your part, but it can be done.

There are people who do fishless cycling. I've never had a lot of luck with that but I'm sure you'll get plenty of info about that from others.

Do your homework. Read up on cycling and on any kinds of fish you think you might want to have. Be prepared to buy a good quality water test kit and some accessories to help you clean your tank and do water changes. I'd also take some time figuring out what kind of fish you want to have before buying things like substrate and decorations or planning on live plants.

It's fun getting a new tank all set up and if you're patient, do your homework and take your time, it's even more fun because you'll end up with a really cool fish tank.

Good luck!

[wataugachicken]

you should always use a dechlorinator, otherwise none of the bacteria will grow or live.

[Holmes1135]

Next, I should buy about a dozen really cheap fish (betas or guppies) so that I have something in the tank to start the filter system up.

You don't want to buy a bunch of Bettas...they will all die and not b/c of the water, they fight to the death.
Go with about 4 or 5 zebra danios to help start the cycle.

[mykidsmylife]

Next, I should buy about a dozen really cheap fish (betas or guppies) so that I have something in the tank to start the filter system up. He said not to expect the fish to live for too long. When he started his, he had all but one or two die. After that, I can start introducing fish. He said that I should wait about 2-3 weeks with the guppies in before stocking the tank with my final fish (I'd be keeping the surviving starter fish as well).


Thanks a lot,
Matt

Just a little bit of info here. You can NOT buy a "bunch" of betta's and put them in a tank. Male betta's will fight each other to the death. You could put ONE betta in the tank but that would be it. Here, they are about $3-$6 a piece for a betta not really a cheap fish. I believe a "bunch of betta" would be an absolutely horrible idea IMO.
I am currently doing a fishless cycle on my new 75 gallon tank. I also used a product called Bio Spira that you buy from the LFS...it is in a refridgerator and is the "good" bacteria you are wanting in your tank (not the stuff that is sold on the shelf in bottles...it's worthless). It has really helped that tank in cycling. It's been up one week and running and the water is now showing Nitrates and I would think in another week or two I can add fishy. The great thing is...no worry about fish dying and guilt associated with their death because there are no fish in there to worry about. My best friend did a fishy cycle and with Bio Spira and religious testing and water changes..her fish did fine...all are still here 6 months later anyways.
Whatever you decide...read the sticky on cycling! It really is helpful.
mykidsmylife

[Holly9937]

Next, I should buy about a dozen really cheap fish (betas or guppies) so that I have something in the tank to start the filter system up. He said not to expect the fish to live for too long. After that, I can start introducing fish. He said that I should wait about 2-3 weeks with the guppies in before stocking the tank with my final fish

The thing is, even if you go that route, the water will so quickly become toxic to the fish, they won't survive the 2-3 weeks it will take to build up beneficial bacteria to support the fish you really want. You can do a "fishy" cycle, but then you are looking at 25-50% water changes, maybe daily or more, to keep the fish alive and to have them achieve the goal of "cycling" the tank and making it ready for your fish!! Way too much hassle IMO.

If you can find biospira (call around) that is the way to go!! Or fishless, it just takes a little longer. BUT that will give you plenty of time to research the fish you want, make sure they are compatible together and with the size tank you have, find out if real plants will work and what kind you want, what kind of equipment to buy...... You get the idea :D I would do anything to go back and set up my tank more thoughtfully, it would have avoided so many hassles

Good luck

[nomadofthehills]

My fishless cycle took less than a week, but I seeded it with media from other tanks.


I recomned asking your friend for some gravel and/or filter media to jump start the process.

[mcfencer25]

Thanks everybody. BTW, stocking with betas....yeah, that was a brain-fart. I was up late and had a convo about betas with someone that day and the name stuck in my head. I really didn't mean to say that it would be a good idea to stock my tank with japanese fighting fish.

As far as my tank goes.........still no fish. I did get gravel and some rocks. I didn't want any rocks that would mess with my pH so I went with green shale and petrified wood (both recommended by my LFS and both recommendations meshed well with the research that I did).

As far as fish go....not really looking for anything that will get too big or that needs exceedingly specialized care. I definitely want a clown loach or two, or three, some irredescent sharks, some catfish (species to be decided) and various community fish. The LFS has a dwarf ciclid as well that they say is a good community fish and doesn't have the special water needs that regular ciclids do. My LFS has some good variety (actually, they have amazing variety) and some very knowledgeable people.

Some supplementary players that I would like to put in my tank would be snails (not sure what to get or how they will interfere with live plants), and a crayfish. About the crayfish: does anyone know if it would wind up eating my catfish? I know they'll eat just about anything but I don't know how good they are at actually catching fish.

Anyway, thanks a lot. I'll check out that info on cycling, as well.
Matt

[Holly9937]

As far as fish go....not really looking for anything that will get too big or that needs exceedingly specialized care. I definitely want a clown loach or two, or three, some irredescent sharks, some catfish (species to be decided)


I would suggest you spend a little time researching the fish you want ;) . Irr. sharks get to be HUGE, think hundreds and hundreds of gallons to keep one. Clowns grow pretty slowly, but you will eventually need at least a 125g for them to be happy and comfortable. Crayfish might not be the best fish catchers, but they will get the fish eventually ;)

[mcfencer25]

I would suggest you spend a little time researching the fish you want ;) . Irr. sharks get to be HUGE, think hundreds and hundreds of gallons to keep one. Clowns grow pretty slowly, but you will eventually need at least a 125g for them to be happy and comfortable. Crayfish might not be the best fish catchers, but they will get the fish eventually ;)

Yeah, you see, this is the problem with freshwater fish. A fish in one area will have one name and when it's in another area (or even pet store) it has another name altogether.

I checked out the species profile for the Ir. shark on this site and the picture there is of something totally different than that in the pet store. I don't know what it is really called, only that it is called "Iridescent shark" by the pet store. It has a body that's much more streamlined than that of the fish shown on this site. It is actually very shiny. It also has very long wiskers and a larger dorsal fin and a more angular caudal fin than the real Ir. shark. I don't know what it is they're selling but it is definitely not the same species shown on this site. They also don't have any large specimens of it. Any fish that get huge they tend to have in the larger tanks on the floor, below the tanks containing smaller individuals. The largest of this fish is about 5 inches and the guy there said that's about as big as they get.

As for clown loaches..........125g??????? They get to be about 5-6 inches at most in captivity. It even says that on this site. How could they possibly need 125 gallons?

Matt

[Holly9937]

You can try www.planetcatfish.com, maybe you could find your fish there :) . As for the clowns, I don't care for the description on this site, and alot of other sites will recommend a much bigger tank...Totally up to you, but a fish that has the potential to get large is limited by the tank size it is kept in.

[wataugachicken]

Totally up to you, but a fish that has the potential to get large is limited by the tank size it is kept in.

just want to clarify that point in case mcfencer thinks you are trying to say something else. while fish will be limited by too small of a tank, that is not a good thing. stunting the growth by having a small tank will lead to physical health problems as well as a lowered resistance to disease, and a shortened life span. in short, the outside stops growing but the insides do not.

as far as clowns go, the more common estimate that i have seen is around 8 inches, and if you want to get one you should be prepared to house at least three, as they are social fish and do better with friends.