Interesting. . .I don't have to cycle?

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yup works greated too beacues if cylces tank very quicklyl. well twohtrh the mony im'

I've been using Bio Spria WITH a Bio Wheel since I started keeping fish and all my tanks cycled in 24 hours. The tank that I didn't have a Bio Wheel on refused to cycle, even with the Bio-Spira. After 24 hours after I ran out and bought a Penguin 330 Bio Wheel and more Bio-Spira it was cycled. Personally, I think that without the Bio-Wheel*** bacteria didn't have adequate places to grow and thus died off quickly. With the Bio-Wheel the bacteria have a place to live and thrive and thus propagate quickly.

I also add ¼ tsp of Bio-Spira per gallon of new water that I add during changes. I've never had a problem with any of my tanks readings.

Roan

*** had a typo there and wrote "Bio Spira" instead of "Bio Wheel"

BCompDude said:

Nice! So when do you put it in? Before the fish, same time, a little bit after? That part is confusing.

Click to expand...

Okay, here's the long and sordid story. I'm sure I made a crapload of newbie mistakes, but at least I didn't lose any fish.

I started the 36 gal tank with a Magnum HOT, no Bio Wheel. The Magnum was an extra filter we had and the only cannister. Figured why buy another filter if we already have this? Anyhoo, I put Bio-Spira in the tank, some soapstone from another established tank for good luck, and added a couple of guppies for ammonia. Here's what happened:

Day 1: 24 hours later (as I was used to! I never had a problem with *any* of my other 4 tanks) all my readings were 0. So I removed the guppies and transferred 2 corycats and 2 gouramis from another tank.

Day 2: 24 hours later and the ammonia was at .250, nitrites .250. I did a 40% water change, everything was 0.

Day 3: Tested the water in the morning and ammonia was .250 again with nitrates at .5. Nitrates steady at 5.0. GRRR! Another 40% water change and I threw in a another package of Bio-Spira. Readings about 6 hours later were at 0.

Day 4: Ammonia 0, Nitrites .5, Nitrates 5.0. Another 40% water change. Readings later that day 0

Day 5: Ammonia .25, nitrites .5, nitrates 10.0. NOW I'm getting very annoyed. I never had this problem with my other tanks. IMHO even if the guppies did not produce enough ammonia to help cycle the tank, the gourami and the cories should have. 40% Water change, again.

Day 6: Ammonia .25, nitrites 0, nitrates 5.0. Now I'm getting REALLY mad and my husband and I decide to buy the Bio-Wheel Pro 60 add on for this Magnum. $42 at BigAls. I call them and the girl on the phone tells me that the reason we are having problems is because the bacteria don't have anywhere to quickly establish a permanent colony and are dying off. This made sense to me and would explain the readings going from ammonia to nitrate and back again

She says I should replace the Magnum with an Emporer 400. I went to my LFS to check the prices as I wanted it NOW and Big Als doesn't have overnight shipping. The 400 looked like overkill (and almost 90$!!!! hey, I have a budget, too) and the Penguin 330 (2 bio-wheels, 330 gph) was 3 dollars more than the add-on for the Magnum. I've had great luck with Penguin and Emporer, so I fork over the dough and buy it, along with two more packs of Bio-Spira (30 gallon size). I went home, installed the Penguin (had to cut a 2" notch in the center bar of the aquarium to get it to fit, but it's just there to hold the hood), dumped half the package of Bio-Spira in the tank and the other half in the filter and let 'er run. I did *not* do a water change. I wanted the ammonia in there to feed the bacteria.

Day 7: Ammonia 0, Nitrites, 0, Nitrates 0
Day 8: Ammonia 0, Nitrites 0, Nitrates 5.0. Feels good. Added my school of 7 Rainbows
Day 9: Ammonia 0, Nitrites 0, Nitrates 0

Dats the story. I could not get it to cycle *quickly* with the Magnum and Bio-Spira. Removing the Magnum and adding the Bio-Wheel caused it to cycle right away. I think that once I installed the Bio-Wheel, the bacteria I dumped in the tank established themselves quickly and multiplied. Without the Bio-Wheel, they consumed the ammonia --> nitrite --> nitrates (hope that's right) and died. Then I was left with 0 ammonia, but nitrites and nitrates, whatever, and they couldn't complete the cycle? Next day I would have more ammonia, nothing to consume it and the nitrites and nitrates. When I threw in more Bio-Spira, it repeated itself: they ate the ammonia -->nitrites and so forth. Does that make sense? I don't know if what I'm trying to say is comprehensible, but if someone gets the idea of what I'm trying to convey, please tell me if my logic is flawed or not.

Heck, maybe I'm the one who's flawed? :duh:

Thanks,
Roan

as per the package instructions, you are supposed to add your full load of fish and the biospira in at the same time. that way there is immediately an ammonia source for the bacteria to consume, and while the excess may die off you will have enough left for the fish that you have in the tank. adding in the biospira and then only throwing a few fish in causes a lot of the bacteria to die, because only enough of it will survive to take care of the waste in the tank. if you only put in a couple small fish at first most of the bacteria will starve, and adding additional fish will make the tank cycle.

other things to note - while biospira will help to cycle the tank, it will not always be immediate. think a week of water changes instead of 4-6 weeks. during the first 48 hours or so, the added bacteria are still free-floating and trying to find a good place to latch on to, so doing water changes IS going to remove some of them. every time you took out water in the couple days after you added biospira you were tossing out a good bit of the bacteria.
the biospira must be refrigerated at all times from the factory to your tank. that keeps the bacteria dormant so that they don't use up any energy and die from lack of food. if it is allowed to warm up for an extended period of time the bacteria will start moving around and die.
some people like to use 3/4 of the package at the beginning, keeping the rest of it in the fridge as airtight as possible, then when nitrites hit a standstill, you can add the rest and get over that hump.

[/ my $0.02]

wataugachicken said:

as per the package instructions, you are supposed to add your full load of fish and the biospira in at the same time. that way there is immediately an ammonia source for the bacteria to consume, and while the excess may die off you will have enough left for the fish that you have in the tank. adding in the biospira and then only throwing a few fish in causes a lot of the bacteria to die, because only enough of it will survive to take care of the waste in the tank. if you only put in a couple small fish at first most of the bacteria will starve, and adding additional fish will make the tank cycle.

Click to expand...

Yep, you are quite right and the worst part was that I knew this stuff. I think I was being overly cautious because I was worried (subconciously) about using the Magnum and didn't want to lose my fish. Blargh.

other things to note - while biospira will help to cycle the tank, it will not always be immediate. think a week of water changes instead of 4-6 weeks. during the first 48 hours or so, the added bacteria are still free-floating and trying to find a good place to latch on to, so doing water changes IS going to remove some of them. every time you took out water in the couple days after you added biospira you were tossing out a good bit of the bacteria.

Click to expand...

Yep. With the other tanks I kept a package on hand and added ¼ tsp. for every gallon I changed out. WHY I didn't do it this time is a mystery. I'm still banging myself in the head.

the biospira must be refrigerated at all times from the factory to your tank. that keeps the bacteria dormant so that they don't use up any energy and die from lack of food. if it is allowed to warm up for an extended period of time the bacteria will start moving around and die.
some people like to use 3/4 of the package at the beginning, keeping the rest of it in the fridge as airtight as possible, then when nitrites hit a standstill, you can add the rest and get over that hump.

Click to expand...

Also what I normally do and I have a ½ package in the fridge right now. I ususally add in a little at every waterchange.

Brain fart. That's all I can say.
The worst part is that one of the gourami's I took out of that tank for harassing the rainbows croaked and the rainbow that was injured showed fungusy growth around the her mid-section this morning. A couple of the rainbow males show a few threads on their mouths. Sigh. DAMMIT! I've added salts and tetracycline and upped the temperature a few notches. She's looking a bit better and staying with the crowd now. Going to the LFS to get better (I hope) meds in the morning.

Grumble,
Roan