anyone hear of this product ? eSHa PROTALON-707

[Emg]

I've been having a red/hair algae problem in a 29 tank I have....and had heard some good things about this product and would like to give it a try. It's supposed to be safe for fish and plants and also adds nutrients for the plants.

I've been trying to figure out how to get rid of this algae...can't seem to find an SAE to deal with it....I only feed the tank once a day, sparingly, and there are only 3 otos, 2 dwarf gourami and 2 blue rams in this tank...along with all the plants. There is a penguin 170 biowheel running in it and a 65watt compact flourescent light fixture.....somethings out of balance, I just don't know what so I wanted to give this stuff a try but can't find it here in the USA.......anyone ever hear of it or know where I can get some this side of the pond ??


Some pics...click on the thumbnails for larger pic.....

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y82/morroman/emgfishpics/th_algae.jpg (http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y82/morroman/emgfishpics/algae.jpg)

I couldn't get this thumbnail to work for some reason.....so I posted the full size...the driftwood is fuzzy with the stuff...you can see the reddish black color of it in this pic........
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y82/morroman/emgfishpics/algaeissue.jpg


Thanks !

[reiverix]

Looks like it's a Dutch product. I did find a few good reviews on it but who knows if there was some bias involved.

It's such a pain when things get out of balance. I'm going through the same in my 20g. I've noticed that spot treating infected areas with Excel is quite effective against most algae types but only in the short term.

[Emg]

Thanks for the reply Reiv...I do dose the tank with flourish excel per instructions each day....doesn't seem to help...though if I didn't the problem may very well be worse than it is I suppose.......

I spoke to someone at another forum about this product and she uses it has beautiful planted tanks. She had nothing but good things to say about it.....I did email the company that puts it out and asked if they have a source at this end....just waiting on a reply from them.

[plantbrain]

No!
Stay away from this crap!
Stay away from any algicide or snake oil cure all.

New folks get impatient and desperate and that is why these useless things have a market. They think it's the fertilizers they added or the method etc, all adding fertilizers do is relieve the other nutrient stresses the plants had, and then they go after the CO2.

So adding ferts isolates the issue, it can only be CO2 if the nutrients are in good shape, you have enough plant biomass(fully planted tank, do not wait for thinmgs to grow in, plant heavy from day one!!!!!!), regular water changes and dosing.

Excel adds what? Carbon.
95% of all algae related issues are=> CO2 related.

That's why it works well. The molecule is also rather large and blocks some algae transport uptake systems, while plants have less issues with this.

Still, you get only about 1/3 the growth as you would with proper CO2.

Reiverix, I've never once seen an aquarium product algaicide that works with plants and kills algae that did not have huge bias and every product I've test with exception to copper with some plants did not do well.

Strong oxidizers will kill algae, eg H2O2, bleach etc, but no algicide product does anything to address the long term issue.

That is what you need to focus on then you do not have algae probelms nor even think nor consider a snake oil.

I would bet I've cured more algae issues with advice + adding ferts than any algicide product to date.

Regards,
Tom Barr

www.BarrReport.com

[reiverix]

No worries Tom. I wouldn't use algicide since Excel works fine and gives the plants a boost. Emg, in my 20g Excel is working against the BBA and staghorn (the tank has been a mess since I redone it) but the hair algae is having to be removed manually. I just keep picking away at it. One day it might even be gone :cool: I'm probably going to add some more stems.

[plantbrain]

Green algae do quite well with normal plant like conditions, but they can be beaten back well and removed without any chemicals.

Simple things like a good pruning and preening will go a very long way as will a pack of shrimp. You can do this in conjuction to rid any algae for that matter.

But the Protalon-707 is no miracle, no chemical algicide is.
You do not have algae because of a lack of herbicide/algicide and those issues can be corrected. I still find it amazing that folks will spend so much time, $ searching and wasting their time when they could get in the tank with a little elbow grease and knock the algae way back with no harm at all to the plants and have the plants grow better from the changes I suggest.

But it's the same thing everytime, and about 2-3 years, a new miracle algae cure comes out.............



Regards,
Tom Barr

[knashash]

Well it can be beneficial in that combined with "elbo grease" you can eradicate a current algae outbreak and then go after the root cause of nutrient imbalance............speeds up the process of getting the tank back on track. I have used chemicals to eradicate a BGA problem and it worked for me.....but as you said, I was desperate. Didnt harm anything though, both fish and plants are doing great.

[reiverix]

I've tried really hot water, not quite boiling, on BBA and it worked ok. Takes a few days for the die off.

[Emg]

Thanks much Tom for your reply ! I have high regards for anything you have to offer where planted tanks are concerned ! Reiv and Knash too ! I appreciate the advice lots !

I actually have been doing quite well keeping the algae in check....I just get tired of dealing with it. My tank doesn't look too awful bad because I am in there with the elbow grease and regular water changes and pruning etc....just would like to get it where I don't have to do that so much and can just enjoy it...lol... I have been into aquariums since 2003 and this is the first time I had considered trying any of the chemical type "fixes".

Here's a pic of the tank itself.......you can click on it to enlarge...
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y82/morroman/emgfishpics/th_DCP_6836.jpg (http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y82/morroman/emgfishpics/DCP_6836.jpg)

Those little red lilies in there are doing fantastic...not a speck of algae on them...yet... they've been in there for about a month now. I started them from bulbs. At one point I took that driftwood out and soaked it in hot water and bleach, scubbing the heck out of it....then soaked it in a good dose of chlorine/chloromine remover before putting it back in the tank...but it didn't take long for the algae to cover it again... :rant:

I do have some plant spikes in around the roots of the swords and aponogetons....do those only cause the plant not to take nutrients from the tank if they can get it so readily from these things ?? Could that be causeing a problem ?

Also....on the use of flourish excel.....is that helping the issue???...or not ?? I couldn't quite understand what you were trying to say as far as that product is concerned. I did notice that the plants were looking much healthier after I started using it, but I don't remember if I had the hairalgae before or not......guess tank logs are a good thing, if I can ever get myself to actually keep some faithfully !! :rolleyes:

Thanks again for all the help and advice....I see I came to the right place here....lol....other places I went for advice, everyone just kept telling me how nice my tank looks.... :rolleyes: Anything else you folks can offer will be much appreciated ! :)

[djlen]

Boy, your tank sure looks nice:) :) :)!!!!!!!
Excel is an excellent carbon source for smaller tanks. A 29 would be the limit that I would find it to be cost effective in using it.
There is nothing comparable to injected CO2 for supplying a water table with carbon IMO. I think that's what Tom meant in his post. He just gets his back up when people want to use some of these 'miracle chemicals' in tanks because they are 100% unnatural and can cause more problems than they cure.
Excel will not make the algae go away instantly. But keep using it and you'll see improvement over time.

Len

[Leopardess]

I second Tom's post. It's ultimately just a money drain...you have to keep using it to "fix" (I use that term lightly) the problem, unless you actually fix the problem. You just have to keep tinkering.


Your plant load looks pretty low, also. You may want to stick in some fast growing stemplants to help outcompete the algae.

[Emg]

Thanks folks !

What type of stem plant do you think would do well with the 65watt 6700 lighting that this tank has ? Right now I have a few tiny sprigs of water sprite trying to grow in here. I do have some taller sprigs in a few other tanks that I could transplant into this one......any other types that get to the nutrients before the algae can ?

Also, I've been keeping the light off most of the time...is that not a good idea ? It just seems that when I have it on regularly the algae begins to get worse.....but, without the light the plants aren't getting what they need to grow and make use of the nutrients???? :confused: :confused:

Gads....this gets complicated !

[reiverix]

Len suggested rotala indica to someone in another thread and I'd forgot what a nice plant it was. Ludwigia repens is another option.

Might I suggest adding some anubias or java fern to your driftwood. You have a dynamite looking tank but I'd love to see some plants on the wood.

[Emg]

That's an idea there Reiv...I do have a few very small anubias in that tank somewhere...lol...but they're so tiny and hardly grow at all. Perhaps something like that right between the two stems jutting up there on top of the log...hhmm..

[djlen]

Run your lighting normally.
The Excel we recommend does not magically make the algae go away. The increased plant growth realized through it's use is what decreases the volume of algae.
Grow the plants......lose the algae. More plants, more use of available nutrients, less algae. In order to help facilitate this process, you need good lighting, in the neighborhood of 10 - 12 hrs. daily, IMO.
Both plants that John mentions (rotala and ludwigia) are fast growing, colorful stems that are easy to propagate and will give pink/red color depending on lighting, and use nutrients.

Len

[phanmc]

I'll second the recommendation for rotala indica and ludwigia repens, they'll add color to your tank. I'm also a big fan of anubias.

You don't want to shorten your light period. In order for the plants to outcompete the algae for nutrients, they must be healthy and growing. You may slow down the algae with the short light period but it'll eventually kill the plants.

[plantbrain]

Stick with 10 hours of light.
Add Excel per rec's.
Add some narrow leaf java fern if you can, it does well and would look nice.

The issue is that you do not have a terrible plant infested algae issues, but a little help will make the tank look like you want with a little work.

Excel, CO2, 10 hours of light, fertilizer, water changes etc.
You can dose once/twice a week and improve growth using the Excel also without getting too much into things.

You have too little plant biomass to go non CO2 well.
But that will change some if you add the java fern, moss, Excel etc.


Regards,
Tom Barr

[Emg]

Tom, what do you mean by "too little plant biomass? Do you mean there aren't enough plants in the tank ? It looks like you're saying with what I have in there now I would need CO2 injection to do well....but if I add the extra plants you mentioned I should do better? Did I understand you ok ?

I do dose with the excel every day per instructions at this time...I'll go back to leaving the light on for at least 10 hours a day. Also, I do have fertilizer spikes at the base of the sword plants and the aponogetons, but other than that I don't add any other ferts. Should I ? ..and if so...what ??

This was the first planted tank I had ever attempted and it's been going for almost a year now. Thing is...I have this little one gallon tank with one betta, a good substrate, a sprig of water sprite and one little baby sword plant...and that tank has done fantastic !! Not a single spot of algae EVER !! and all it has for lighting is one little 7 watt incandescent bulb...go figure...lol...no muss, no fuss. Now if I can get this 29 to behave like that I'll be a very happy woman !

[Emg]

I just remembered this liquid plant fertilizer that I have for my viveriums. It's called Dyna-Gro and the numbers are 7-9-5. Should I use this for the aquarium ? If so, how often would I dose with it ? It says to use 1/4 to 1/2 teasp. per gallon. Go for the 1/2 teasp....or will 1/4 do ?? I'm not worried about it harming the fish, since it's safe to use with my dart frogs.

Thanks for any info ! :)

[djlen]

As previously stated, the more plants, the more difficult it is for the algae.
Increasing your bio-mass/plant mass would help enormously in the fight against algae.
Plus, IMO you need to fill out the tank a bit.
Your plants will benefit from regular dosing of N,P,K and trace elements. I would caution strongly against using any type of ferts. that are used for dosing house plants.
Get a fertilizer that is made for aquariums.
With your wattage, you could probably do well with an all-purpose fertilizer available at most LFSs, augmented with a light dosing of Seachem's Flourish for traces.
Do not pull up those plants that you've buried the plant tabs under for at least 3 months. If disturbed they can/will cause you algae problems.

Len

[Emg]

Thanks for the info Len ! Very helpful !

[Emg]

Hello Tom......

I just read a log on the "Wind, Forest, Fire" type setup at the AQ forum.....the fella who did up this tank mentioned in his log that at one point the plants started looking yellow and shedding leaves and moss was becoming an issue.....he checked his PH and found the reading to be 7.8.....he used something called ADA Plam Net (???) to get his PH down to 6.4-6.8...and that solved his yellowing problem..

I have had issue with my plants yellowing and the leaves becoming thin and loosing their color...my PH is on the high side...anywhere from 7.8-8.2....could this be one of my problems with the algae too ?? I thought it was a lack of some nutrient or other causeing this..could it be the PH ?? And if so, what could I do to lower it without it becoming just another issue trying to keep it stable...?

Thanks for the help !