Hole in side of fishies w/pic.

i could be wrong but it looks like the disease hole in the head to me

it does sound like hole in head to me too, but does it occur back past the gills??

p.s. salems in the house

Looks large to be hole in the head, plus that usually occurs under really poor conditions. Could it be an infected wound? The fry don't look that small, any competition starting?

Sorry for being skeptical but... are you sure you're testing properly, especially for nitrates. Zero nitrates with only 30% water changes every two weeks is almost too good. Then again it is a fair sized tank, and with just fry (?) lightly stocked. I know some brands of Nitrate tests will give a false zero if not well shaken, or if you don't wait (Aquarium Pharmeceuticals). I always retest when I get a zero or near zero.

Anyway, be alert and cull anymore symptomatic fry. If it does reappear I'd be concerned. A flesh eating infection like that is disturbing.

Looks like Hole in the Head to me. My last oscar had it, very disturbing to see when you wake up one day. I cured him but man was it weird. I had only been feeding my oscars feeder fish. I added flake food to their diet and changed my water more often. I was doing 25% ever two weeks. I changed to once a week. Good Luck.

in any 'batch' of fry, there's going to be some disease if the water conditions are not pristine. 30 percent every two weeks is not enough. i change 50-60 percent of the water in all my tanks on a weekly basis and fry tanks twice a week.

i'm going to assume you meant 0/0 ammonia and nitrITES since zero nitrATES would indicate that either you've got a very heavily planted tank or your tests are off.

it doesn't matter what the disease is (it's not HITH or LLE) since you wouldn't be able to medicate these fish in any event (they're too sensitive). the key i think is to maintain your water quality in 'perfection' mode and disregard your test results. change more water more often and i think you'll find you'll have no more problems.

Ok, ive been checking my water and this is what i have here. My water quality is good. I have 6 tanks. In all of my tanks my nitrates are less than 20 ppm. I used a crappy test kit last time that obviously wasnt accurate at all.
About a month ago i took my lemon jake out of my 250g show tank, he seemed stressed and wanted to keep an eye on him. I placed him in a quarantine tank with a couple of small lithobates I had split up from the rest of em. I didnt think he was sick, i just thought he was the weakest link and couldnt handle it in there, they were a little rough on him in the 250g.

So, let me clear the air and tell you i think the sickness came from the lemon jake. A day after i put the lemon jake in there i put the lithobates back in thier original tank. ( A big no no)

Now i have a big problem. I think the lemon jake is comming down with the same thing, but not sure. I removed my Copadichromis mloto from my show tank, and it is definitly showing signs of a hole about to develop in the same spot. There is an outline on his skin. Why is this hole always in the same exact spot? This is very strange. I am very concerned because i have alot of very expensive wild africans in the show tank, and have spendt a great deal of time and $ aquiring em. It seems that this very slow developing then the hole appears suddenly. I dont notice anything wrong with any other fish in the show tank, all look and act normal. Ive read similar threads with the hole in the same spot and people post on the problem, but nothing ever comes of the thread. Nobody knows what this is ?

Right now im treating the lemon jake , copadichromis, and all of the lithobates with metrozol.

You might want to check out these two links:

http://www.fishyfarmacy.com/fish_diseases/skin_disorders.html
http://www.fishyfarmacy.com/fish_diseases/physical_changes.html

There are a few more options at the top of the page for different types of diseases and problems. I find it very helpful for doing a diagnosis and there are suggestions for treatment as well.

Roan

without a culture and definitive diagnosis, we're all just guessing here. the symptoms you describe coupled with the picture you provided indicate 'possible' Epizootic ulcerative syndrome.

this disease is caused by Apahnomyces invadans. this disease works from the inside muscle outward to the dermis/epidermis causing lesions. there has been some reported prophylactic and therapeutic success addressing this parasitic fungus using RALLY in combination with standard doses of the antibiotic Kanamycin available at shops in various formulations.

If you pursue combined RALLY/Kanamycin treatment, use it according to package label instructions, and add one dose of RALLY every 3 - 5 days. The active ingredients in RALLY are biodegradable; however, you should run carbon or a Polyfilter for a few hours (and then remove it) before adding a repeat dose.

there isn't much known yet about latent spores ("hyphae") which may survive in the flesh. The fungus does most of its damage in the muscle tissue where the effects are not readily apparent; when the infection breaks through the epidermis and forms an open sore the water is being seeded with infectious spores. therefore, if your fish show no visible symptoms, let's say for at least four weeks, you probably have been successful in saving them and terminating the infection cycle.

however, remember that the infection is invisible during most of its cycle in any given fish: therefore what appeared to be "stopping the infection in its tracks" over a period of 10 days or so doesn't mean the infection was eradicated. finally, a fish can have multiple tracts of infected muscle, leading ultimately to multiple sores. so, while getting one sore on a fish closed up and healed is a significant achievement, it again doesn't mean much until the fish stays clean for at least two or three weeks.

other 'lumps and bumps' which can approximate your symptoms:

there are a number of diseases that begin the way you've described. (1) tumors or lymphocystis which are viral in origin and not treatable, (2) fish pox which is also viral and not treatable (3) various forms of ulcer disease which are caused by Pseudomonas or Aeromonas and are treatable, (4) HITH or LLE which has varied causes and treatments, (5) Costia - a parasite that nearly always causes little red hemorrhages, especially under the chin, (6) various bacterial diseases caused by such as Columnaris, (7) Neoplasm formations.

Lumps and bumps that suddenly appear are usually infections. If the disease process is due to bacteria, it usually resolves by rupture (like a boil) pretty quickly. The white liquid that oozes out is pus that is formed when the white blood cells (immune cells) die while killing bacteria (in general). NEVER TRY TO POP OR SQUEEZE THE LUMP. Like a boil in humans, squeezing can cause regurgitation of the pus into the blood stream of the fish with deadly results. It is also not a good idea to seal a draining wound unless it is bleeding. The most common bacteria which causes such lumps is Columnaris or Aeromonas.

Wounds that are white on the edges and red in the center are most typically Aeromonas. Those that are red on the edges and white in the center are generally Columnaris. Both are gram negative bacteria. the best treatment for this is any sulfa antibiotic with trimetheprim. this can be put in the water and mixed with food -- if you can find Romet B use it.

some research indicates that certain carbon filter materials may predispose fish to this disease though the mechanism has not been determined. better nutrition (provide calcium/phosphorus/vitamin D supplement), less crowding, more water changes may help. Change brands (marineland is good) or don't use filter carbon at all. Hexamita is usually treated with METRONIDAZOL and this should be accompanied by antibiotic food.

Costia treatment is best accomplished by (a) first using a salt dip to strip the slime coat, (b) treat for 3 days with Quick Cure (c) run the temp up to 86°F for 3 days and then (d) slowly lower the temp to normal at a rate of about 4 degrees over a 24 hour period.

treatment for any other 'bumps' and 'lumps' may be treated by a bath of potassium permanganate. you can often obtain this at your local pharmacy.

notes on the use of potassium permanganate. 1 drop of stock PP per gallon is equal to 2 ppm. This is the concentration used for continuous treatment. PP is usually used for 3 days, or every other day for 4 treatments. If water is not clear in 24 hours (looks yellow), change 25-30% of the water before adding another dose. Light inactivates PP. After adding the PP, watch for a minimum of 15 minutes to make sure there are no adverse reaction. Then turn off lights or cover the tank.

Some water seems to inactivate PP rapidly. It should be pink when you put it in, and stay pink for at least 4 hours to be effective.

Stock PP can be used on a swab on small wounds or patches of white "crud" on fins. It results in a chemical burn and turns the area dark. Do not use near the eyes, mouth or gills. Use as a one time application, followed by Neosporin creme or Panalog (by vet prescription).

wheww. Ok. Ty for replying to my post. I can definitly see you know what your talking about, and am very pleased to have you helping me.
Good info, but i cant get any rally any time soon. The meds i do have on hand are, penicillin, melafix metronidazole, and Pipzine capsules.
Nobody in town sells Rally.
I dont think its caustia, it definitly looks like its starting on the inside of the fish. Man, i dont even know where to start replying to that, so this might seem a bit choppy.
I came home from work today to find my copadichromis sitting at the top of the tank looking very bloated. 5 mins later he was a gonner. I opened up his swollen belly to take a look and found nothing unusual. I was hopeing to find maybe some worms or some kind of visible parasite. I dont know if this death is even related, but im assuming it is. Bloat? i dunno, but i dont think so.
I can tell you he definitly became BLOATED overnight, and the markings of where it looked as though he was about to develop a hole had dissappeared.
Remember i put him in quarantine last night treated with Metronidazole.
The lemon jake looks as if he is recovering, however the O. Lithobates holes dont look any different.
Any other methods of treatment that would help ?
Will any other meds that i have work ? Man, i wish I knew what this thing was. Im going to do more research on Epizootic right now.
I was reading a fish disease book today that didnt list Epizootic ulcerative syndrome wich i was wanting to find. I did find something that seemed like a possibility, it is called Spironucleus flagellate. Theres another called intestinal flagellate also. It didnt get into great detail, but did say it might cause "hole disease". Whatever that is. Have you ever heard of this ? Is this a possibility? Also, would you be able to tell under a microscope ? Might seem far fetched but i could send you a tissue sample, or do you know of a place where i could send a tissue or waste sample ? Ty for the reply. Im not disregarding any of your information at all. In fact im still reading through it again.