please help-sick fish

[xxalxx]

Hi,i have had two goldfish in a 50L tank for about 3 years now, but the goldfish are about 10 years old. They have always been healthy but over thepast 2 months one of them has started to lie on the bottom, and has her fins clamped to her. However she seems perky but whenever she tries to swim, she has no buoyancy.We filter the gravel and change the water regularly, putting dechlorinator in etc, and we have a sponge filter.When i asked at the petshop they gave me some swim bladder treatment which we have put in for 4 days, leave it 4 days then again etc as we were advised. The other goldfish is fine, but bonnie still lies on the bottom.She has been like this for a month now.Can ne1 please help?thanks xx

[liv2padl]

to begin with, 50 litres is insufficient to maintain two goldfish. the fact that they've lived 10 years under these conditions is terrific, albeit surprising. note that GF can live for 30 years or more ... they're not going to make it unless you improve their conditions and the fact that you're having trouble now is testament to that.

swim bladder disease may be caused by many different factors including virus, bacteria or diet:

a virus can attack the epithelium of the swim bladder causing inflammation which makes the tissue too thick for gases to diffuse into the blood system. when this happens the fish exhibits lack of buoyancy because gases have nowhere to go. unfortunately, if this is your problem, it's untreateble.

bacterial infections can cause the same kind of thickening of the swim bladder epithelium as viruses.

anatomy ... globoid-shaped fish like ornamental goldfish are predisposed to problems with the swim bladder because of their anatomy which result in mis-placement of the bladder in the body cavity. this can lead to food impactions, which in turn clog up the pneumocystic duct.

feeding dry foods which tend to take on water like a sponge and expand in the fish can result in food impactions. due to the swelling/expansion of food in the gut.

so how are you going to treat swim bladder disorders? there are two means: prevention and treatment.

1. first and foremost, maintain good water quality. this will enhance your fish's ability to naturally resist viral or bacterial infection.

2. Pre-soak flake or pelleted food. this will allow expansion to occur prior to the fish eating it, and will lessen the chance of impaction.

3. try feeding your fish a couple of peas. peas high fibre content can encourage destruction of any impaction which might be present.

4. fast your fish for a couple of days. withhold all food for three or four days, and sometimes this alone will break up the impaction and return things to normal.

5. a product called Paragon II by Aquatronics® supposedly aids in treatment of swim bladder disease.

6. add one teaspoon of salt per gallon of water.

7. treat with Mardel's Maracyn-two or other broad-spectrum antiobiotic.

8. last resort - aspiration of the swim bladder. essentially you stick a needle in the swim bladder and suck out some of the air.

[xxalxx]

thanks for the advice, but i am suprised that you say 50L is too small, as they have never had any problems before as they have regular water changes etc, and have always been in excellent condition. I have tried everything you suggested on that list apart from sticking a needle into the goldfish, and i dont know whether i would be confident enough to do that, could you give me more information or is it better to take it to a fish shop to have it done?

[willy:-)]

How do you convert liters to gallons?

[kveeti]

How do you convert liters to gallons?

For U.S. gallons divide litres by 4. Not exact, but close enough.

[liv2padl]

50 litres is about 13 gallons. goldfish have a large mass relative to their length. this means they eat alot and put out alot of waste. their metabolism is such that a single goldfish needs a minimum of 10 gallons when juvenile and more when it's mature. two goldfish in a tank that size is a recipe for problems ... which you're now having.

[Beeker]

A single goldfish requires at least 20 gallons to live a healthy life. When my goldfish began to show signs of swimbladder problems I upgraded to a larger tank. With more room to move around and a larger water supply, the problem was worked out. That was about the time I joined this forum. Then I learned the information lif2padl and I just gave you and also that goldfish can easily grow to be about 2 feet long. You really need to get a larger tank if you don't want to find a suitable home for them. If you do neither, they will die soon. For them to have lived this long, you must have some strong fish there.

[xxalxx]

so, how do i go about finding out more about the needle thing?would i need a vet 2 do it?

[Roan Art]

I've been doing a lot of research on goldfish as my son wants a couple for Christmas:

Pond Goldfish - comets, shubunkin need 50 US gallons
All others need 30 US gallons + 15 gallons more for every fish you add

You need to upgrade to at least a 45 US gallon tank -- assuming they are not pond type fishes -- for those fish to live a full life.

Goldfish tanks need to be double-filtered because of all the waste they produce. This means that a 45 gallon tank needs a filter sized for a 90 gallon + tank.

Just my 2 cents

Roan

[liv2padl]

so, how do i go about finding out more about the needle thing? why do you want to rush to the most invasive treatment possible? it will do no good at all if you continue to maintain your two goldfish in 50 litres. you need to upgrade to a larger tank and try some of the less invasive methods i outlined above before resorting to the 'needle'.

[Beeker]

liv2padl is right. You don't have to do the "needle thing" yet. Just upgrade to a larger tank with more filtration. The fish will recover with more room to swim and more clean water.