Quickie Ich Question

[Roan Art]

Can ich be transferred via a net or gravel vacuum?
I would think yes, but I wanted to ask.

Roan

[nlmadison]

My "best guess" would be that Ich can be transferred thru either as long they were not allowed to dry completely before re-use.

N.

[hamsterman]

yes. Ich parasites are easily transferred to other aquaria or ponds by nets, hands, boots, etc including the water and gravel. The parasites can be encysted in the gravel.

[Roan Art]

<sarcasm>Oh, that's just TERRIFIC!</sarcasm>

Sigh. I didn't think, of course, and that's probably how the ich got in my betta tank.

Bleach, I hope, will kill the nasties on nets and gravel syphons?

Sigh

Roan

[sumthin fishy]

Bleach will work. But if you let it dry completely there should be no problems. Of course, if you use bleach, squirt some dechlor. on it and rinse well(dechlorinated water of course)

[daveedka]

Dry or bleach either one, although I would personally reccomend a bleach soak if you use that method not just a quick dip. The encysted ich is fairly well protected and the bleach will need at least a little time to penetrate. I might suggest at the minimal cost of nets and gravel vacs that you buy a small collection and allow them to fully dry after leaving a tank and before they enter another. I typically don't dip a wet net in any tank but my q-tank.

And just for the record, pottassium permangenate will sterilize almost anything. It breaks down too quickly to use as a medication in the tank, but for sterilization of nets tools ec. it does a decent job.

Dave

[TheMightyQueenPixie]

I just use bleach...I have a regular rotation of nets and buckets that get bleached, then left to dry...

[Roan Art]

Thanks guys. I've been soaking the gravel vac in bleach since this morning :)

I'll soak it in vinegar and water later. Then water.

Huh, bet parasites can come in on plants, too? Does alum kill parasites or just snails?

Trying to find out how it got in the tank.

Hrm, one more thing . . . I've read more than a few times where a person's tank had ich and all the fish were infected except the otos. My otos show no signs at all but Jakers has it big time. He's feeling a *little* better tonight. Saw him chasing the otos around a wee tad.'

Pixie, how high do you jack the heat for a betta?

Roan

[TheMightyQueenPixie]

Try him at 83-84....It should take care of it quick. Maracyn will knock it out asap...

[daveedka]

Hrm, one more thing . . . I've read more than a few times where a person's tank had ich and all the fish were infected except the otos. My otos show no signs at all but Jakers has it big time. He's feeling a *little* better tonight. Saw him chasing the otos around a wee tad.'


Some fish are more resistant than others to the parasite. It is not uncommon for one species to manifest ich while others show no sign. It is still advisable to treat the entire tank with all fish in it, but not suprising that one species shows ich spots and another doesn't.

Not sure if the maracyn suggestion was meant for ich, but I am sure that maracyn will not cure ich.
Either salt or specified ich meds are needed. I am not a fan of meds per se but malechite green, formalin or a combination of the two are IMO and IME the best available ich meds. I still feel that the salt is a far better option in many many ways though.
dave

[Roan Art]

Some fish are more resistant than others to the parasite. It is not uncommon for one species to manifest ich while others show no sign. It is still advisable to treat the entire tank with all fish in it, but not suprising that one species shows ich spots and another doesn't. Nod nod. I think otos have a natural resistance to the darn thing.


Not sure if the maracyn suggestion was meant for ich, but I am sure that maracyn will not cure ich.
Either salt or specified ich meds are needed. I am not a fan of meds per se but malechite green, formalin or a combination of the two are IMO and IME the best available ich meds. I still feel that the salt is a far better option in many many ways though.
dave
Treating the whole tank, nod. I think for parasites you really have to treat the whole tank cause they're in the tank and not just in the fish.

I'm using salt + heat + "Super Ick Cure". Salt is at 1tsp per gallon (4 tsp) and heat is at 85 degrees. I normally have his tank at 80. Should I jack it down one as per Pixie?

I don't like using meds either, but he looks pretty bad. One of his gills is infected and his breathing is labored at times. He's hanging by the heater and his color is way pale. Bottom fins are ragged. Almost in a perfect line like he burned himself on the heater. Was looking like good fungus food so I added a little Pima and Mela to help ward that off. Don't want some secondary bacterial infection or anything. There are some pieces falling off here and there, but it doesn't look like tail rot.

Now that I have the light on in his tank and he can see me well, he's swimming around and his color is perking up. Seems a lot of the ich is off his body and mostly on his fins. Still some on his gills.

He has been eating okay.

Since he has it so bad it makes me think that the ich parasite must have cycled at least 1 or 2 times before I saw he had it. Dammit! He sits right in front of me ALL DAY, so why didn't I notice?

Okay, question: when a fish is flashing do they like smack themselves against an object and then jump away like they've been burned or something? I just saw him do that a couple of times and I'd not seen that before.

Darn bettas. Hard to tell if they are scratching because they like to play so much. Right now he's peeking out at me from underneath a java fern leaf.

I hope I'm not cooking the otos.

Sigh.

Roan

[Roan Art]

Try him at 83-84....It should take care of it quick. Maracyn will knock it out asap...
Kay, I've it at 85, should I drop it?

I added salt and "Super Ick Cure" yesterday morning -- dang I hope it doesn't kill my plants. Also added Pima and Mela cause it looks like he burned the bottom fringe of his tail on the heater. Almost a perfect straight line. Bits are falling off, but it's not tail rot atm.

Don't think I should add Maracyn with the Ick stuff. This morning his behavior is the same and he's rather listless and pale. He perked up when I sat down in front of him and a lot of the body ich is gone. Has some on his gills and his breathing is labored at times. His fins and tail are really covered, though.

Roan

[TheMightyQueenPixie]

Dave you are right...I should of put Maracide NOT Maracyn...My stupid...Keep the heat at 85..This will speed up the lifecycle of the ick and take care of your problem... If you are using "super Ick cure" just stick with that med...Dont add another. Do the full treatment for the suggested period of time...You dont want a revolving door...Good luck :)

[Jacquib]

I am treating ich in my well cycled tank using the salt + heat method and have noticed that the nitrites are on the rise. Is this normal during treatment? What causes this - the high heat? Do I just keep doing water changes to keep it in check?

Thanks

[Roan Art]

Dave you are right...I should of put Maracide NOT Maracyn...My stupid...Keep the heat at 85..This will speed up the lifecycle of the ick and take care of your problem... If you are using "super Ick cure" just stick with that med...Dont add another. Do the full treatment for the suggested period of time...You dont want a revolving door...Good luck :)
Okay, thanks :P

I'm going to add about 1 tsp salt over the day which will bring it up to 5 tsp per 3.9gallons. That's the actual volume of my 6 gallon tank.

Dave, I know you have stuff about disinfecting nets in your article, but it might be a good idea to add something about disinfecting the gravel vac and anything else that comes in contact with the infected aquarium. Or having separate items for each one.

Just a thought,
Roan

[tbone-ike]

Roan,

I've got a Betta in my 55 that looks identical to your avitar - he's got ick as well. It's been visible in my tank for about a week & I've been treating since I saw it. I'm using 2 tsp/gal salt & running temp at about 84.5. The temp doesn't seem to be bothering him. Most of the ich is gone from everyone, although he's got a couple of spots left (he was the last one to get it though).

My wife noticed that the ends of his tail fins are slightly torn, but he's been nipped at a couple of times in the last few days, I don't think it's due to the temp. Everyone seems to be getting a little grumpy. It's been a few days since I checked my levels - I'm going to test the water tonight. Most of the fish are new additions within the past couple of weeks. My Q-tank is now ready for him should he not improve within the next day or so.

I wish you and him the best!

[Roan Art]

I've got a Betta in my 55 that looks identical to your avitar - he's got ick as well. It's been visible in my tank for about a week & I've been treating since I saw it. I'm using 2 tsp/gal salt & running temp at about 84.5. The temp doesn't seem to be bothering him.Nah, 84.5 is a cakewalk for a betta. I'm sure he could do with it at 88 if I really really pushed it. The otos, however, wouldn't do too well. Hrm, I thought I set it for 85, but it's at 86. Gonna leave it.


Most of the ich is gone from everyone, although he's got a couple of spots left (he was the last one to get it though). He just swam over to me now that I'm sitting at my computer again and he looks MUCH better. Most of the spots are gone off his body, but he's still pretty covered over the fins and tail. Couple left on the gills, breathing seems better now. Best thing is that his color is better. I wonder why he hangs around behind the heater so much. Maybe he knows that heat will heal him faster? Or the heat feels good period.


My wife noticed that the ends of his tail fins are slightly torn, but he's been nipped at a couple of times in the last few days, I don't think it's due to the temp. Everyone seems to be getting a little grumpy.Jakers' are ragged too, but there's no one in there to nip him.


It's been a few days since I checked my levels - I'm going to test the water tonight. Most of the fish are new additions within the past couple of weeks. My Q-tank is now ready for him should he not improve within the next day or so.Make sure you treat the main tank for the recommended time, kay? :)


I wish you and him the best!Thank you and you, too!

Roan

[Roan Art]

My wife noticed that the ends of his tail fins are slightly torn, but he's been nipped at a couple of times in the last few days, I don't think it's due to the temp. Everyone seems to be getting a little grumpy. It's been a few days since I checked my levels - I'm going to test the water tonight. Most of the fish are new additions within the past couple of weeks. My Q-tank is now ready for him should he not improve within the next day or so.His ich is cleared up now and I'm going to start lowering the temperature a wee tad so that it's a little more comfortable for the otos.

I added some Mela and Pima to the water a few times to help his fins. Dunno if that stuff really does any good, but it doesn't hurt and it makes ME feel better :P I like the smell, too. His fins stopped looking ragged a couple of days ago and seem to be regenerating.

He's not behaving like himself, though. I'm going to see if the temperature change makes an improvement in that area. If not, I'll be posting for advice.

Saturday will be day 7 of ich treatment and I'll start slowly removing the salt then.


I wish you and him the best!
Thanks! How's your little guy doing now?

Roan

[daveedka]

Saturday will be day 7 of ich treatment and I'll start slowly removing the salt then.


I'd be very careful not to jump the gun. MQP's comment about the revolving door was pretty accurate. I would personally go one full week psat the last visible sign of ich (that includes the last flash, or spot either one) It only takes one little survivor to keep ich alive in your tank.

If you are worried about the stress from the meds just up the salt level slowly to 2 teaspoons per gallon and then put some Activated carbon in your filter to remove the meds. If everything in the tank is handling the meds well at full strngth then you can keep that up rather than change things.

HTH
Dave

[tbone-ike]

Roan,

Glad to here things are going well! I'm just over a week with the 2tsp/gal of salt treatment & no more signs of ich for the last couple of days :) The much colder weather here has lowered my tank temp (my 55 is along a basement wall) from about the 84.5 F I had it to around 82.5, but I've just let it sit about there for the last couple of days as the ich hasn't re-appeared and things look good. It started with a Rummy Nose Tetra who had alot of it, but he's never looked better now, although I must admit that my ph is a little to high for the guy I think (7.8). :( I need to put some more ph down in my tank.

My (son's) Betta seems to be doing great!! :dance:

My only concern at this point is that neither of my Sailfin Mollys are looking very happy. One is always just sitting right at the top and the other just sitting right on the bottom. Throughout the ich bout, I only saw one small speck on a Sailfin's tailfin. My wife (she watches them more than I do) thought she saw one swallow a small peice of gravel and not spit it out, but that wouldn't explain why they both seem quite unhappy. :confused: If I 'poke' them or feed them, they seem to perk up. Maybe the salt is getting to them.

I'm goint to continue to keep a close eye on them.

I'm glad to hear things are looking up for both of us :)

[TheMightyQueenPixie]

TBONE IKE- DONOT USE PH DOWN! It is a lousy product that may lower yor pH temporarily, but your pH will rebound and cause a world of problems...My fish live/thrive/breed in 8.0 water...I couldnt lower it if i tried...A constand stable high pH is better then a bouncing one any day.

[tbone-ike]

Pixie,

Ok - thanks for the info!! I only used it once before & was wondering abou the bi-product effects. My water from the tap is at about 8.0 and I suspect it's getting down to 7.8 due to the fact that there's still some ph down in the tank water from about 1-1/2 weeks ago. I think the only issues I may have would be with my Rummy Nose. 2 of the first 3 didn't make it. The one that did was about 50% larger than the ones that died. I may have to forego keeping Rummies altogether if I ever loose this one.

My 55gal display:
1- male betta
1- Rummy nose Tetra
3- rasboras
5- glowlite tetras
1- lyretail dalmation molly
2- sailfin mollies
1 -ballon belly molly
2- 'sunfire' platties
2- neon dwarf rainbows
soon to be added: 2 or 3 bosemani & austrialian rainbows

..then I think I'll be done.

any "real world" concerns with 8.0 ph here?

Thanks for taking the time to help us newbs get acclimated :)

[Roan Art]

I'd be very careful not to jump the gun. MQP's comment about the revolving door was pretty accurate. I would personally go one full week psat the last visible sign of ich (that includes the last flash, or spot either one) It only takes one little survivor to keep ich alive in your tank. That's what I was wondering about. I think some of the ich is surviving and I don't want another outbreak.


If you are worried about the stress from the meds just up the salt level slowly to 2 teaspoons per gallon and then put some Activated carbon in your filter to remove the meds. If everything in the tank is handling the meds well at full strngth then you can keep that up rather than change things.I only dosed the meds once at the beginning. I reread the article and decided not to go the med route. I used Mela and Pima a few times to help with the tail and fin deterioration. So all I've been using is salt + heat.

I'm more concerned about the heat as both the otos and the betta looked like they were having a bit of trouble breathing. Jakers is surfacing for air a lot more than usual. I did lower down to 82 and I was going to add a micro diffuser and air pump to help the circulation. Jakers isn't hugging the thermometer now, but he's not swimming around like his old self quite yet.

Bizarre. He's hovering near the top, by the back filter, and he'll swim forward slowly and touch it with his nose. Then he jumps like he's been burned. He does this every little while. That's not flashing, is it? Attracted to the vibrations?

Should I have left the temp at 86? Personally, I'd rather go with 2 weeks of salt and 1 week of the high heat rather than two weeks of salt and high heat.

There are otos in there, will they be okay at 2 tsps of salt per gallon? Other than, I think, maybe needing a little more oxygen in the water, they don't look stressed at all. They go to the top occasionally, but not as often as my corycats do in the other tank. They're very active and are currently in the middle of chowing down a zucchini.

Roan

[tbone-ike]

Roan, sounds like you and I are thinking alike: 2 weeks of salts, with one week (the first) of higher heat.

[Roan Art]

Roan, sounds like you and I are thinking alike: 2 weeks of salts, with one week (the first) of higher heat.Yah, does sound like it :)

I put a micro diffuser in the tank this afternoon and he's entertaining himself by swimming through the bubbles. He's still not acting "right" though.

Roan

[Hannys_Papa]

Hi Roan,

dont mean to HJ this thread but i remembered a while back you wanted me to post a pic of the riccia i got from beviking but the thread we talked about this is pretty much dead so i wasnt sure if you'd take another look at it.

I hope you wont mind this - if yes i can always delete it later.

WHat i have to say is that the riccia seems to do great - lots better than the anacharis - which was supposed to be the best beginner plant. Mmmmh but i'll probably post about that and a few other Qs in the plant forum later....
wouldnt mind if you took a look at that thread either. ;)

Ok here is the pic:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y46/Sarkast/DSC03163_E01small.jpg

To get a little connection to this thread - first of all i hope jakers will get better soon. Does he build a bubblenest yet ? I was surprised to see the size of the nest my betta had made when i took the pic a few minutes ago. (especially how far it was sticking out of the water - more like a bubbledome)

[Roan Art]

Nice nest! Beauty!
No, I don't mind at all and I'm glad you posted. Gotta get me some of that ricca. I'm sick of anacharis :)

Roan

[daveedka]

My only concern at this point is that neither of my Sailfin Mollys are looking very happy. One is always just sitting right at the top and the other just sitting right on the bottom. Throughout the ich bout, I only saw one small speck on a Sailfin's tailfin. My wife (she watches them more than I do) thought she saw one swallow a small peice of gravel and not spit it out, but that wouldn't explain why they both seem quite unhappy. If I 'poke' them or feed them, they seem to perk up. Maybe the salt is getting to them.

Just an FYI to put your mind at ease a bit. of all the freshwater fish on the planet, mollies will be among the last to be bothered by salt. Mollies like Hard hard water, and live in brackish water in many cases. Salt as you are using doesn't really simulate brackish, but the fish will not be bothered at all by it. O2 may be why they are hanging around the top, but the salt isn't an issue.

This is not an endorsement on the use of salt long term, only reassurance that the salt won't bother your mollies during ich treatment.
Dave