Angelfish spawning!

[pbecot01]

Yay! Two of my angels have apparently decided to become a pair, and are currently laying eggs on one of my filter inlets. Fun stuff...

Problem is that they seem completely inefectual at discouraging my bulldog pleco from coming in closer to investigate. Is there anything I can do to keep him away from the eggs short of netting him (which I don't have the facilities right now to do anyway... only the one freshwater tank up right now). Thanks :)

[gabrielandco.]

you can move the eggs themselves to a tank of their own, filter inlet and all- hope you have a spare. otherwise, when they start to hatch they will get sucked into the filter unless you have a prefilter sponge.

it is always great if the parents raise them on their own. try to not do any sudden moves if you keep them with parents...they may eat the eggs.

tank divider? how big is the tank? oops. 75 gal. got a tank divider to give the parents some privacy?

you said that it was one of hte filter intakes. does that mean you have two filters going and can turn this one off?

[pbecot01]

Don't have the setup for another tank. My extra tank was recently converted to an attempt at saltwater ;)

I COULD turn this filter off... but the other filter is only rated for 60 gallons. I'd leave it off from now until the eggs dropped into the substrate? Would this be okay?

[gabrielandco.]

how is it going? hope you still hvae eggs. it is fun and interesting to watch them develop.

it has been my experience that some fry get into the gravel and seem to not be able to find their way out and die. that said, i still had a few broods that were raised by and survived mom and dad until the next spawning session(with gravel in the tank).

at this point the parents should be fanning their eggs. the extra circulation will also fulfill this action. however, it could also have interfered with fertilization. have any of the eggs turned completely white? if so, these are unfertilized and the parents will remove them.

trying to remember....they should hatch in 2-3 days (?) also depending on water temp. they will still hvae their yolk sacs and the parents will transfer them from place to place in their mouths and keep them clean (?).

it is possible that the parents will protect them enough, but they may also get eaten by your other fish, if not by the parents. this includes any that may become free swimming and stray from the parents. also, being tiny, they can still get sucked into the other filter that is operating. you could easily turn the one off that the eggs are on, temporarily, and add a sponge filter powered by an airpump to the tank to make up for any decrease in filtration.

like i said, they could still get sucked into the other filter and the best protection is a sponge pre-filter...they work nicely. just had a thought....some people are diy's...perhaps a piece of pantyhose secured to the filter uptake would also work to keep the fry safe. i have never tried it but it may work.

sorry i didn't get back sooner. hope this helps and i will check if you have any more questions.

[pbecot01]

Thanks for the responce :)

A few of the eggs have turned completely white, but most of them are still that cream color. The parents are hovering over the eggs fanning them. I have sand substrate, so getting lost in it shouldn't be a problem. The parents "dissuaded" the bulldog pleco from investigating, and nothing else has even come close to the area since. Both parents came shooting over to fan out when my wife leaned too close to the glass to watch... they're pretty protective ;)

I decided to turn the filter off when I get home tonite (figuring there's no point doing it too far in advance of hatching). How long from when the eggs start wiggling (or whatever they do) till I need brine shrimp? I want to make sure to have some brewing up well in advance.

Thanks for the help! :)

[pbecot01]

Lol... now things are really wierd.

As I was watching the Angels started eating all the eggs. This upset me, but I figured it's not a shock. When I realized that they weren't eating them, but moving them from the side of the filter intake to the top of the heater, that shocked me.

Now there is a pile of original colored eggs on TOP of my filter, with some of them wiggling. The eggs that stayed white stayed on the filter. Seems wierd... but as I said, the eggs on the heater are wiggling, so I figured I'd do a practice run on brine shrimp and keep my fingers crossed :)

[gabrielandco.]

congratulations! you have a hatch. :bday:

the parents moved them away from the dead eggs. they should clean those up at some point and i am surprised they haven't already. i am trying to remember...it is a good idea to get the brine shrimp going at this point as it will take a couple of days for them to hatch. ihvae also watched the parents take in the fry and some food, "munch" motions, then spit both back out. so, they might be ok until you can really get the shrimp going. the fry will be at what i call wiggle stage for @ 3 days(?). they are not ready to eat until they are free swimming, or have "lift off." they are still absorbing their egg sac.

since the free swimming fry are pretty much transluscent for awhile, you will be able to see if they are eating. their bellies take on the brine shrimp orange coloration. you want to be careful of over feeding as well as underfeeding. i have heard that both can cause deaths. also, you don't want to hatch so much brine shrimp taht it takes a week to go through them. again, another thing that i had read and not my own experience as i have no idea how to know: after the shrimp have absorbed their own egg sacs, they are of little nutritional value. it would be good to have a batch going and to start another every few days. that way, when one is done, the other is starting to hatch. feed three to four times per day (?).

i would also suggest you read up on this subject on www.angelfish.net
i now know about this from someone who suggested it here. a good tip i read over there is to use a pipet or some airline tubing, suck up some brine shrimp and direct it right into the "cloud" of angel fry..specifically when they are in a community tank. also, they could certainly prvide any updated info that i do not know or correct any misinformation i have given you. i am still happy to answer any questions you may have to the best of my ability and memory...just afraid i will give wrong info.

try to disturb the parents as little as possible...hard i know! they will also move the wiggles here and there. they will pick them up in their mouths then "shoot" them onto the glass or other surface. sometimes, the wiggle will fall back to the substrate and the parent becomes anal-retentive about wanting them where they put them. oh, those disobedient children!

i am also having technical problems. if i don't get back, i apologize.

[gabrielandco.]

curious about an update :)

[pbecot01]

Thanks for the advice... everything was working well!

At least, until today. Nothing you said or anything... I hadn't been feeding the fish (I usually only feed two or three times a week anyway) because I was trying to mess with the tank as little as possible.

But today the fry were free-swimming, with the parents keeping them in a neat little cloud between my heater and my shut off filter. I wanted to feed them since I hear that fry need to eat lots to grow properly. I didn't want the other fish to go after the food I fed them, so I dropped some flakes in the other side of the tank for everything else.

Of course... the parent angels immediatly forgot about the fry and went over there in a feeding frenzy... which one of my rams took advantage of. Just like that... bam... the fry become a snack. We were quite upset... the angels didn't even come back and look for them for like five minutes. Oh well... didn't expect to get this far anyway, but I had thought we were beyond the difficult part.

In the future, any ideas about the proper way to feed the fish while there are fry in the tank? And thanks for all your help up to this point.

[gabrielandco.]

wish i could help there, however, inever had angels in a communtity tank. soo sorry for your disappointment :sad:

fish being survivalist are opportunists as well. just think of how your ram enjoyed his snack, i guess. all i can think of in a community tank is a temporary tank divider. of course, the fry will find their way around it but maybe not all. even then, the parents may eat the fry themselves, and still may have without anyone elses munching. i have had mine eat fry just as their fins were starting to stretch (1-2 weeks of freeswimming, i think).

hope you find some good suggestions...and if so,please share them! i have angels in a community tank right now but they are still a bit young. and, since yours have bred once, they will more than likely breed again....and possibly within 2 weeks time.

[pbecot01]

I think next time I'll try to feed more regularly... it had probably been five days, so they were pretty hungry. And maybe go heavy on the feedings, making sure to get some down around the fry/eggs... so they can eat without leaving their brood.

Thanks for your help, as I said :)

[gabrielandco.]

your welcome! hope i helped a bit. also, heavier feedings will require more water changes...which is good for fry growth anyway.