cycling with decomposing meat

[cdawson]

I read that decomposing fish meat can be used to cycle a new tank. I've got a jumbo freshwater shrimp in the tank right now, how long till the tank should be ready? It's a 48 gal.

[VoodooChild]

I don't really know why fish wouldn't work, but shrimp are much dirtier, therefore supplying food for more bacteria. I'd just use them. The tank should be set to stock anywhere from 3-6 weeks from when you first throw'em in there.

[wetmanNY]

Any source in a storm, eh. ...aw aw aw aw aw...

Any source?

Yep. Don't fall off the stepladder though...

[slipknottin]

What a will that would be--

"If I die I want you to use my body to cycle the fishtanks"

:D

[JeffP]

I might consider giving BioSpira a test drive before the rotting meat approach.

[HazyWater]

The water might be a bit ripe after a while.

[OCSupertones]

Originally posted by slipknottin
What a will that would be--

"If I die I want you to use my body to cycle the fishtanks"

"Yes i want to be a donor, i want to donate my body to newbies in the aquarium hobby so that they can learn to cycle."

[wetmanNY]

Who logs in with the tag line...


I sleep with the fishes

[wetmanNY]

What? oh that! That's ol' wetmanNY's skull... keeps the tank pH from crashing... nice the way the Kuhli Loaches have colonized it, don't you think?

[pinballqueen]

And we'll all be fighting over who gets the hands that type all this wonderful skeptical advice you give.... I'll settle for a finger....

[O-man21]

and then there is that other.......never mind...shutting up.

[TTman]

NO WAY!!! this has to be a joke, right??? ur better off putting the fish in right away then using raw meat... no telling what u'll be putting in (bacteria, viruses, germs, micro organisms) if using raw meat.

[vfrex]

Isn't a big shrimp used to cycle saltwater tanks? Why would it be so different for fresh?

[cdawson]

would someone whose done this please reply because I'm getting mixed reactions on this. I was told by a prominent LFS that this should make the tank cycled after 2-3 weeks and I should slowly add fish after this (1-2 fish every 2 weeks). I've used a freshwater jumbo shrimp that was frozen in my freezer. Now if this seems out of this world tell me because I'm getting an archer fish and putting in my prize green spotted puffer. So if they die and no one helped I'll be REALLY choked. I also fed the tank with a pinch of flake food.

[beviking]

Hey cdawson, I wish I knew the answer so I could help you out. Or at least had a wetman translation text available. I've heard of using shrimp but can't remember if it was raw or not. Try doing a search with cycling and shrimp. Someone will come out of their "clown mode" and help you out. Hang in there.

You would lose your kuhli loaches in the small intestine!!!!!

[cdawson]

I just read that when the ammonia hits 0.00 I should be ready for my fish, this has been used for alot of saltwater tanks (I'm doing high brackish) so it should be fine according to article.

[EagerAqua]

Hey cdawson,

Some links I found (not sure if you have seen them yet):

http://www.reefsource.com/Information%20Sources/fishless_cycle.htm

http://www.pgtropicals.com/ARTICLES/fcvaa.html

The cycle is not done when just ammonia hits 0.00. It is done when ammonia and nitrItes have both peaked (won't happen at the same time - ammonia first and then nitrIte) and go to 0.00. You should test for both.

Eager

[Ronne]

If you are that concerned about how well it will cycle your tank then why bother?? Why not use a standard cycling method and not risk losing your favorite fish?

[Raithan Ellis]

Using shrimp or fish to cycle a tank is perfectly fine, preferably raw.

When your cycle is complete, ie... Ammonia = 0.00, Nitrites = 0.00, and you should be showing some Nitrates at that point. Do a fairly large water change and you're all set!

Cheers,
Raithan O. Ellis

[carpguy]

I can't really understand why you'd do this as opposed to an ammonia-style fishless. If the salties have been doing this for awhile, it still seems to be a form of fishless. The ammonia style fishless seems cleaner and neater. Is there some advantage to using rotting meat that I'm just not getting? I'd think you'd be choking and gagging long before you put your prized fish in there…

And as Eager pointed out, the cycle isn't finished until the NitrItes zero out. The ammonia zeroing out isn't even half way.

[Fishiebusiness]

whats the difference between one rotting shrimp or the collective rotting poop of a lot of fish? Not much, its all just decaying organic matter. I cycled my tank with a massive ammount of flakes, works as well as ammonia adding and probably promotes detritus decomposing bacteria you might not get with direct ammonia addition a la fishless cycling.

[pinballqueen]

Originally posted by Fishiebusiness
whats the difference between one rotting shrimp or the collective rotting poop of a lot of fish? Not much, its all just decaying organic matter. I cycled my tank with a massive ammount of flakes, works as well as ammonia adding and probably promotes detritus decomposing bacteria you might not get with direct ammonia addition a la fishless cycling.


You know, you might be on to something... There is, after all, many more than just two or three types of bacteria in any environment, and they all have jobs to do, one of them being the decomposition of organic matter. I wonder if that's a big enough difference to matter between a fishless/fishy/meat cycling method, though?

[carpguy]

Originally posted by Fishiebusiness
whats the difference between one rotting shrimp or the collective rotting poop of a lot of fish? Not much, its all just decaying organic matter.

I try to do a little cleaning before I have a prawns worth of fish poo in the tank. All reports I've seen on the shrimp-cycling method include mentions of the stench, suggesting to me that conditions are a bit different from what you'd find in a normal well-run tank. If there are a additional varieties of beneficial bacteria working the breakdown they'll be along soon enough. I haven't seen anything to suggest that the fish suffer while waiting for them after an ammonia-cycle.

[Fishiebusiness]

I realize the you would not want to have a shrimps worth of decaying matter in a normal tank full of fish, but this is an empty tank in which we are trying to establish bacteria. This is why we dont do water changes in a fishless cycling tank. Cleaning it would be defeating the purpose of adding ammonia. The stench is due to the ammonia and will disappear when the nitrogen comsuming bacteria have established themselves and the cycle is complete.


Originally posted by carpguy


I try to do a little cleaning before I have a prawns worth of fish poo in the tank. All reports I've seen on the shrimp-cycling method include mentions of the stench, suggesting to me that conditions are a bit different from what you'd find in a normal well-run tank. If there are a additional varieties of beneficial bacteria working the breakdown they'll be along soon enough. I haven't seen anything to suggest that the fish suffer while waiting for them after an ammonia-cycle.

[JSchmidt]

I think we should demand wetmanNY explain his ladder remark... although anyone who has closely ready his site will understand. It's all part of his amazing ability to control certain things...

:)

Jim

[VoodooChild]

Man did this thread ever stray from the path. The shrimp method does in fact stink, I've tried it, but it's not thaaaat bad, particularely if you have no one else in the house to offend. I'd just stick with the shrimp and do a water change when it's cycled. Works nicely, you get alot of bacteria build up in there.

[Luca Brazzi]

So If you can use a shrimp for a 48gal what would you use for a 240?

Lobster?

[VoodooChild]

A bunch more, then you cook the rest. Setting up tanks while have a seafood dinner. What's better?

[Sensei_the_dojo]

I'd go with straight ammonia over the shrimp for two reasons.

1. Ammonia's a lot easier to measure making it easier to add the proper amount to bring your tank up to 5ppm.

2. If I've got some raw shrimp available, I'd much rather make some yummy scampi than toss them in a tank to decay.

[carpguy]

There's a whole lot of stuff getting broken down besides nitrogen compounds with the shrimp method. The ammonia-style cycle doesn't smell bad at all, just a whiff of it when dosing, no stench to speak or even a vaguely bad odor.

The nitrogen, I think, is coming from processed proteins only. You'll get some ammonia, but a lot of other stuff you don't necessarily want or need as well. In an inhabited tank, the ammonia is coming primarily from the fish, not from decomposing organics (some, just not a lot). The fish are also quite involved in breaking down the fats and sugars and complex proteins they'll come across, so many of these other bacteria won't necessarily have a food source later on.

It may work, it just seems very messy and inefficient. I'd go with an ammonia style cycle. If you don't want to do that, I'd go with a high protein fish food. I wouldn't want to spend a month or more smelling rotting seafood and I don't see any advantage to be gained over the cleaner methods.

Certainly your call to make, just my 2¢.