My new Lionfish

[yamanjazz]

I just got my Pterois volitans. After a long period of research i finaly decided to get one. As many of you will agree, it is a wonderful creature to look at. After geting it used to my tanks water i put it(him or her. i dont know) in. It did the usual hide and seek ritual. To prevent any further stress i came to my room and left it to do its own thing. I go and check it out but its still not ready to explore the tank yet.

I have done my homework on this species but we all know that not everything can be learned from books and articles and will sometimes need an experts help. So i would be very greatful if any of the other Lionfish keepers would share any info concerning them.
Thanks in advance:)

[FloridaBoy]

Not an expert, but I agree they are spectacular... generally pretty hardy, but can be sensitive to poor water quality and overfeeding is the most common cause of death (no goldfish!). Keep him hungry with feedings every other day or so and lots variety is the key (see my replies to previous post below on Radiata; re: issues with bright lighting, feeding, etc.) Make sure you have plenty of room to grow, also a good skimmer is essential to export nutrients from heavy protein feedings. Watch those spines.
http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59916

[Gealcath]

How big is the aquarium its in?

[yamanjazz]

its a 95gal tank. he is now swimming happily all around the tank:)

@Floridaboy: i took a look at the post you linked and found it very helpful. feeding is one of the things i am worried about. thanks:)

Update vol:1. After putting the Lion in the den i noticed the blue damsel i THOUGHT was dead. The Lion is trying to eat him. i feel bad for the little guy but im too scared to put my hand in and take him out. i dont want to get stung. although i find this situation very evil, it has made me confident that he is already ready to eat. when do you think i should introduce his first meal?

[DansMarineTank]

How big is the lion? was he eating frozen in the lfs?

I found my radiata loves Squid and Octopus frozen or fresh he cant resist, also i feed him krill, muscules, mysis shrimp and silversides all frozen, thanks again to FB for his help getting mine to eat!

[FreddytheFish]

Go ahead, put your hand in the tank to get the damsel. The lion probably won't harm you, but wash your hands first to make sure it doesn't smell like food. If you hand feed, watch out, 'cause it will associate your hand with food and could try to get food from it.

Feeding: try to get it to feed on frozen food, the sooner you get it to do this the better. DO NOT feed FW goldfish. To get it to eat frozen, spear the forzen food on a feeding stick, and wiggle it around to make it appear live.

You may want to reconsider keeping it in a 90 gallon. It should be fine, but keep in mind they get huge. A good analogy that OrionGirl said was "its like a basketball floating in your tank.

Good Luck with your new lion. They truly are spectacular fish. :)

[FloridaBoy]

its a 95gal tank. he is now swimming happily all around the tank:)
@Floridaboy: i took a look at the post you linked and found it very helpful. feeding is one of the things i am worried about. thanks:)
You are welcome my friend. We actually now have a large breeding population of P. volitans along the east coast from FL to NC to NJ.

Update vol:1. After putting the Lion in the den i noticed the blue damsel i THOUGHT was dead. The Lion is trying to eat him. i feel bad for the little guy but im too scared to put my hand in and take him out. i dont want to get stung.
CAUTION: Lionfish can/will lower their heads and spear you, so I would be very careful about catching that damsel. Here are some other ideas from my files:
I have usually caught fish in a decorated display by removing all the rocks/decs from one end of the tank as required, then placing a large "bag net" in that corner. A bag net is a clear transport bag which has been inserted into a standard net frame (the net is removed completely from the frame, no netting!) You push the top edge of the bag up into the frame and roll/fold it back over the wire frame. Thus creating; the bag net.
Using a wooden dowel or other chase instrument, you "herd" the fish into the bag net, which never moves. It pays to observe the escape pattern of the fish; use discretion and strategically place the trap. Sometimes placing a little food into a clear mason jar or acrylic box will also work, you simply lure them into the trap and quickly cover the jar with a net. Also try the double bag method; place a small sealed Ziploc bag with live brine inside a large rolled-op open bag, this will lure the fish into the big bag where they can be trapped/lifted by hand or fishing line wrapped under the rolled top. Patience required here; it usually fails the first few times.

[FreddytheFish]

CAUTION: Lionfish can/will lower their heads and spear you,

That isn't normal though, is it? Most things I read say that this is very rare and usually occurs when the owner hand feeds so the lion associates the owner w/ food.

[FloridaBoy]

The lionfish is not usually agressive; it's a defensive posture used if they feel threatened. Injury can occur when the unwary aquarist is cleaning the inside of the glass or sticking your hand in for the afore-mentioned capture of another fish.

[yamanjazz]

Thanks for all the info guys:) all is well atm. ill keep you posted on what has been going on thoughout this week.

quick question: when would be the best time to give it its first meal?

[Triggerman]

Go ahead, put your hand in the tank to get the damsel. The lion probably won't harm you, but wash your hands first to make sure it doesn't smell like food. If you hand feed, watch out, 'cause it will associate your hand with food and could try to get food from it.

Feeding: try to get it to feed on frozen food, the sooner you get it to do this the better. DO NOT feed FW goldfish. To get it to eat frozen, spear the forzen food on a feeding stick, and wiggle it around to make it appear live.

You may want to reconsider keeping it in a 90 gallon. It should be fine, but keep in mind they get huge. A good analogy that OrionGirl said was "its like a basketball floating in your tank.

Good Luck with your new lion. They truly are spectacular fish. :)
A 90 gallon is big enough for a volitan.

[yamanjazz]

This is a pic i thought you guys might want to see:)
http://img478.imageshack.us/img478/7073/pict00188ur.th.jpg (http://img478.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pict00188ur.jpg)

[FreddytheFish]

A 90 gallon is big enough for a volitan.

I said "it should be fine." But they do grow to 15 inches! That's a huge bio-load.

[FreddytheFish]

Yaman: great picture! :D

[yamanjazz]

Thanks Freddy:)
i tried to feed it some squid but it wasnt interested, to tell you the truth it got a bit scared of me waving it around. is this normal? what should i do next?
i live near the sea and can catch live shrinp(becuase the LFS doesnt sell em) and try to see if it eats them, but then i was a bit worried about introducing diseases into the tank. Do you guys think it would be a problem if i tried this? i know there is always a risk but how big of a risk is it i dont know.
im getting a bit worried that it isnt eating and this is why i have written so much about this subjuct. please help:)
thanks in advance:)

Note: Because of the lack of SW tank keepers here in north cyprus, the lfs doesnt have much for them. such as that garlic thinger (that i read in the other topic) or any live shrimp types and all the other things you might recommed for me to use:( i can order them from the internet but it will take time. im not sure how long it can stay alive without eating. please help.

[yamanjazz]

ive tried prawns, shrimps, squids(with all the legs and stuff), mussels meat and squid strips. but it didnt seem to want to eat any of them:(
however, it did go near them but didnt even open its mouth... i tried for like 2hours but it want having any of it. im lost. ive run out of ideas. :confused:

[FloridaBoy]

Don't panic. Assuming you have good water quality, this is normal my friend, and it will eat when it gets hungry. Several days without food will not endanger the fish at all, just keep trying. Find out what it was eating at the LFS (you did ask to see it eat, correct?) and start from there. The foods you are offering will bring results, just have patience. Make absolutely sure you remove any uneaten food off the bottom promptly.

[yamanjazz]

i havent left any parts of the food in the tank. but i must say it is still tryin to eat the blue damsel :huh:
This fish was imported from Istanbul and i dont have the phone number of the store to call and ask what they fed it. i read about a garlic scent thing, is that for aquariums only or can i buy it from a supermarket?

[dorkfish]

Buy a clove of garlic from the supermarket, liquify it in the blender and then soak your food in this before feeding.

[yamanjazz]

is it that easy? i am happy to hear that i dont have to order stuff over the net(and probably not receive it) and that i can go out to the local market and do my own home made "lionfish food":)

[yamanjazz]

ok, now its getting out of hand. i crushed garlic and put the food in it. i waited for a while and then tried feeding the fish. I wasnt very surprised(but i was very upset) to see that the fish wasnt tryin to eat it. could it be getting distracting by the Damsel? but the trouble is, is that i cant catch it unless i pull apart the deco in the tank. and find a house for the lion while all this is happenin. which isnt possible at the moment.

[FloridaBoy]

Let's see, I did give you several proven ways of capturing the damsel, are you listening? Try tempting with a piece of squid stuck on a sharpened dowel or clear acrylic rod, move it around a bit, that usually gets a response. Also please check your water parameters; nitrite, nitrate, PH, etc. How long has the tank been set up?

[yamanjazz]

im listenin mate:) the tanks been up since febuary. i tried the acrylic rod but no cigar.

[Germanman]

?e ur having lots or prolems luck 4 u i work in an aquarium store and i deal with all kinds of diffrent lions. i have a dwarf myself.
i feed my lion guppies or ghost shrimp live. the way it sounds ur lion was never weened offf live food from where u got it so ull have to do it. they love fish so ur gona have to give is some small live fish, tiny green chromis, feederd guppies, feeder minnows,feeder daino, or salt or freshwater ghost shrimp. then after th fish settels in a gets used to u u can start trying to feed it frozen silversides or some other type of frozen fish. try the rod but dont jerk it a lot move it as the fish woul move close to the surface. if u move to quick the lion will get upset. personally i feel that they shouldnt be deprived of live food but in ur condition it should be weened. good luck and let me know if u need more help!
ps check out my lion below!

[yamanjazz]

Gman that is one beautiful Lionfish:) after lots of unsuccessful attempts with frozen food, i decided to give it live shrimp... and boy am i happy i did that. finaly it ate something and i know now that is ok. but i will slowly ween it off live food and start introducing frozen food. i just hope it doesnt take too long. thanks to eveyone who replied here:) you all have helped very much. i hope that ill be able to help you guys too:)

Just one last quick question: Do Lionfish stop eating when they are full? or should count how many shrimps i give to it?(becuase it seem to be looking for more after i fed it)

Once again, Thanks gang:)

[FreddytheFish]

:cool: :) I'm glads it ate.

[DansMarineTank]

No they dont stop when thier full, he will eat eat eat and eat and then beg for more food, i had problems feeding my lion at first but never gave in to the live food, once he snaps at something hes hooked..

mine now associates the net with food (thats how i defrost the froxen stuff in the tank) and he begs all the time i am near the tank (which is good as hes out and about rather than in his cave.

Anyways what i'm getting at is these are clever fish you need to get into a routine and stick to it, like feed him at the same times, the food enters in the same place in the tank, using the same net ect eventually he should get so excited when he thinks its feeding time he'll eat anything. Mine now (had him about 4 weeks) will eat anything i put in the tank regardless of wether it appears alive. PIC attached (sorry about the poor quality)

[DansMarineTank]

Further to my post above my lion is very picky on the size of the food, too big he ignores too small he ignores, with my 2" radiata i give him food about 50% the size of his open mouth. BTW so you dont worry too much, mine never took food after it was soacked in garlic the first time. also If your wiggling the food try not to force it to him make him chase it.

As i said after a while he slowly started to eat more and more. at first he would snap at something and then spit it out later he would eat about three of four little bits spitting the rest out. Eventually he eat everything to the point of busting!

Have you had any luck yet?

[DansMarineTank]

Oh and dont feel too bad about the damnsel, its just nature taking place on a small scale (i bear a grudge against all damsels after all the pain the caused my two clowns!)

[yamanjazz]

tell tell you the truth, i havent introduced frozen food since the day it to ate live food. i am tryin to get it used to the tank first before i try with frozen stuff. i also have to add that it has started to come to the surface when i go near the tank, so thats a good sign of it look for food right? maybe it will fall for the frozen stuff this time, ill try in the next 2-3days. ill keep you posted.

[DansMarineTank]

Yeah thats a good sign if he assosiates you with food. plus you get to have a good look at him ;-)

[mysis]

I collect shrimp from the indian ocean, i feed them to my friends hawkfish, just make sure if you put any in there they are not carrying eggs, because 1 day you have 20 adults, the next day 2000 little babies. pretty funny watching my friend scoop them out, but a pain in the arse. also whitebait is good, asuming you live near the ocean and can catch them :)

[yamanjazz]

My Lion doesnt hide that much anymore. it usualy swims about the tank, thats lucky for me becuase i get a good look at it when ever i want.

i live in Cyprus(an island:)) we have plenty of "white" shrimp in the sea. i just hope my fish doesnt catch anything from them.

[FloridaBoy]

Freezing them will insure a safe product, and teaching the lion to eat frozen is a good idea.

[yamanjazz]

thats a very good idea FB:) but is it a real problem if i feed it all live food or is thst just a way to cut expenses and to save time? Does feeding it live food introduce any problems in the long run or anything like that? i am aiming to ween it of live food but i thought id ask so i get to know as much as i can about them.

[mysis]

well there is a risk, but no one knows how big the risk is, you lion could feed of live shrimp for years and never get sick, or tommorow it could get sick. really the risk is small. on your island, i am guessing that the water quality in the sea is good, also are you catching the shrimp in a remote area, where not many people go, if your fish will eat the frozen shrimp, it owuld be easier for you, as you could catch a lot at one time and freeze them, and only have to catch shrimp once every two month or something like that. IMO, try and ween it on to the frost foods.

[jacobus]

i recently got a baby lionfish. ive been reading this and the other thread about feeding it it.. i ve got it to eat some FW guppies(i cant get live SW feeder stuff in my area) to start the feeding cycle.. but i cant seem to get it to eat frozen .. i tried silverfish and squid, even the crushed garlic thingy.. but still no go. also .. ive recently purchased a larger tank(4 feet) and to cycle the new tank i got my LR from my tank to the new one .. during that .. one of my mandarin came into extreme close contact with my lionfish.. as i was working one the new tank... i checked my old one and notice the mandarin acting sluggish (not like it normally behaves at least). i went out for dinner and when i returned, i found the mandarin dead. could the lionfish's sting be the cause ? just how lethal is the lion fish's sting to other fish ? also .. i just realised my dragon wrasse is acting strange too.. i really hope its not the lion fish.. i love my dragon wrasse.. sigh.. the lionfish usually hides in the caves i created.. but with some of the LR gone.. its out in the open.. im sure it means no malice.. but could it stings just kill other fish accidently ?

[FreddytheFish]

i recently got a baby lionfish. ive been reading this and the other thread about feeding it it.. i ve got it to eat some FW guppies(i cant get live SW feeder stuff in my area) to start the feeding cycle.. but i cant seem to get it to eat frozen .. i tried silverfish and squid, even the crushed garlic thingy.. but still no go. also .. ive recently purchased a larger tank(4 feet) and to cycle the new tank i got my LR from my tank to the new one .. during that .. one of my mandarin came into extreme close contact with my lionfish.. as i was working one the new tank... i checked my old one and notice the mandarin acting sluggish (not like it normally behaves at least). i went out for dinner and when i returned, i found the mandarin dead. could the lionfish's sting be the cause ? just how lethal is the lion fish's sting to other fish ? also .. i just realised my dragon wrasse is acting strange too.. i really hope its not the lion fish.. i love my dragon wrasse.. sigh.. the lionfish usually hides in the caves i created.. but with some of the LR gone.. its out in the open.. im sure it means no malice.. but could it stings just kill other fish accidently ?


Highjack.

Well, mandarins are hard to keep in captivity, although it could be the lion. What kind of lion is it? If its a volitan, your tank is not big enough. They get to 15 inches, thats like a basketball floating i your tank.

[jacobus]

gosh .. its a volitan.. so huge ? i dunno if i can afford a larger thank.. it shouldn't be cause the mandarin is hard to keep. cause ive been keeping my pair of mandarins for 3 months now and they are not agressive toward each other.. good news is my dragon wrasse is still alive .. well i guess i's start saving for a new tank.. so maybe i can afford a larger tank when it starts to get bigger..

[itstheantitang]

Well, mandarins are hard to keep in captivity, although it could be the lion.
Freddy, the mandarin will live if you have a refugium, live rock and a massive amount of copepods. Some mandarins have even been weaned onto frozen foods (If you want a mandrin like that, dont get ur hopes up. Not you freddy, Mr. FW)

[FreddytheFish]

Freddy, the mandarin will live if you have a refugium, live rock and a massive amount of copepods.

Exactly. "massive amount of copepods." Not many people who buy mandarins have those.

[yamanjazz]

its an old topic but i didnt want to start a new one because this is an update. Well i finally got it to eat frozen food. i just ate its first mussel and just wanted to share it with you guys. wooot woooot :D
*dances all around the forums*