View Full Version : need some suggestions
ddayton21
11-25-2005, 7:41 PM
hey all,
I wanna set up a 10G tank for my friend for christmas because i'm sweet like that.... anyway, he really likes oscars but I know theres no way an oscar is gonna fit in a 10G tank.
That being said, I think he would probably like some nice african cichlids. I watched them eat some feeders at petco today for the first time...and WOW!
anyway my questions are
1) will any africans fit into a 10G tank?
2) if so, do they need to be in groups or can I put one by itself?
thanks guys...I would look for some of this info myself but there are so many types of africans and I trust people's experience more than any website :D
ddayton21
11-25-2005, 7:56 PM
mmk, to anyone who looks at this, the kenyi cichlids (Pseudotropheus lombardoi) seem to be a little less than 4 inches...so could I keep 1 or 2 of these?
moesha
11-25-2005, 9:36 PM
i think the kenyi get a little bigger than 4 " but there are no african cichlids that should be kept in a 10 ga. maybe look into a bolivian ram pair or the apistogramma species, they are the dwarf cichlids.
ddayton21
11-25-2005, 9:42 PM
dang....I really wanna get him something aggressive...any other suggestions? maybe outside the cichlid family?
thanks a bunch!
~*LuvMyKribs*~
11-26-2005, 12:47 AM
I know what would be perfect for your friend.
Lake Tangynika shelldwellers. They are tiny (max 1-2 inches) and they live in empty snail shells. You could probebly get a colony (1 male and 2 females) in a 10 gallon tank.
I kept Neolamprologus ocellatus in a 10 gallon and the male was so mean... he would bite my hand every time it came near his shell. He was actually TOO mean, cus he eventually killed all his females.
Look into them... they are about the only cichlids you can fit into a 10 gallon besides dwarf rams and apistogramma.
;)
-Diana
indiginess
11-26-2005, 3:06 AM
ditto luv's comments... i've been toyin with a mini Tang. tank myself
feeders to africans? am i missing something? nevermind, i'm mbuna jaded.
ghinksmon
11-26-2005, 5:26 AM
Well, if you're into the visual of one feeding on another how about a lone crayfish? Give him shelter to hide but drop in an earthworm and watch him wrestle and shred it. Look for a species with large claws.
A 10 is on the small side but an African butterfly could be interesting. Mine's in a larger tank but it doesn't move far from the floating water sprite. You might enjoy watching it snatch a small cricket from the surface.
But honestly if aggressive is the desire than a much larger tank is really where you should be heading.
~*LuvMyKribs*~
11-26-2005, 11:23 AM
Yeah I was going to say, you should never ever feed feeders to africans. They are mostly vegetarian (the mbuna) and even the haps will die of bloat if fed too much protien. If your pet store was doing this.... run!
ddayton21
11-26-2005, 8:23 PM
hmm I see....well I can't say im surprised about that. Well what kind of cichlid is it that eats feeders? or is there a group that does?
What about a nice group of green tiger barbs ? They're pretty aggressive from what I've read...and I hear they're truley neat in a large group and fun to watch them eat. I don't know how many you can fit in a 10 but if you had only those, I bet it would be pretty interesting.
http://www.tropicalfishplace.com/barbs.htm
ddayton21
11-26-2005, 9:15 PM
shelldwellers would be pretty cool...but after I got everything I might not wanna let it go lol.
I'm gonna do some research on them but I get the impression that they are kinda rare and difficult to care for.
Also, it wasn't kenyi cichlids that I watched eat; I'm not even sure if they were african at all. (no experience with cichlids)
All I know is when those feeders were dropped in that tank every fish in there darted for them and devoured them pretty quickly so I assumed that was their usual diet.
~*LuvMyKribs*~
11-26-2005, 9:47 PM
There are thousands of species of cichlids from all over the world.... so its really difficult to 'sum up' cichlids. Its kinda like saying 'lizards' or 'dogs'. Theres just too many!
Some eat feeders some dont. Even feeding 'feeders' is bad for any fish unless you breed and raise them yourself.
:)
And I think green barbs need at *least* a 20 gallon tank. 10 gallons would be much too small for them.... especially if they like to be in large groups.
Its very worth trying to find some shelldwellers in your area. Local cichlid breeders or hobbyest clubs might have some.
-Diana
ddayton21
11-26-2005, 10:00 PM
well I'm kinda moving away from the cichlid idea considering my friend is a novice and not very interested in learning about fish.
He's more interested in "watching the bigger fish eat the smaller fish"
I'm gonna keep asking him how he likes different fish and lean towards a hardier fish where ph and hardness arent as big an issue.
~*LuvMyKribs*~
11-26-2005, 10:37 PM
Cichlids are generally amoungst the hardiest fish.... they usually can withstand lots more than most typical fish you find in pet stores.
Maintaining pH is as easy as throwing some crushed coral or shell into the tank.... or adding baking soda when doing water changes.
No matter what fish you get, your going to have to make sure the pH is right for that fish, not to mention all the other water parameters. He will have to do water changes every week and make sure the fish are getting good foods and keeping healthy. If your friend is not interested in learning about fish, maybe getting him one is not the best idea. Just wanting an animal to watch it eat another animal is kind of sick, and is by no means a good reason to keep a fish.
-Diana
ddayton21
11-26-2005, 10:51 PM
well I don't think he is the only person who likes to watch agressive fish eat; But I do agree that it's not a legitimate reason by itself to keep a fish. Personally, I don't see anything wrong with finding interest in an agressive fish's feeding. Plenty of aquarium fish eat feeders...thats why we have them. Oh well, not trying to turn this into a moral issue. I'll talk to him more about the responsibilities involved in keeping cichlids or any other fish for that matter.
~*LuvMyKribs*~
11-26-2005, 11:16 PM
Oh I dont disagree with fish eating fish... thats what nature is all about. But I think wanting to keep an animal strictly just for watching it eat other fish isnt right, especially if you dont properly house your animal, or give it the care it needs. ;)
-Diana
ddayton21
11-26-2005, 11:25 PM
I agree with you on that...especially about the proper care.
You know...the shelldwellers aren't difficult to care for at all...in fact, they're rather hardy. The multifasciatus would be GREAT for a 10 gallon setup, they breed like rabbits though...lol...and DON"T eat thier young, so...if he has an lfs nearby that will take the extras off his hands he may have a little income to help pay for the next tank he will undoubtably get !
But seriously, the neolamprologus multifasciatus is a very interesting little fish. They are always digging and moving things around and it's quite amusing to watch the females glare at each other over thier piles of sand. I have found them to be a very easy fish to keep.
I use reef sand and crushed coral as a substrate...more sand than coral. Plenty of shells..escargot shells are perfect..and they eat flake food and prefer a couple of small feedings a day rather than just one larger feeding.
Here's a pic of my recently setup 10gallon. I'm hoping to increase this to a 15 when I can find one cheap. You can click on the pic to increase the size...
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y82/morroman/emgfishpics/th_DCP_7555.jpg (http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y82/morroman/emgfishpics/DCP_7555.jpg)
tuthelimit
11-27-2005, 7:53 AM
Question,
Why are you stuck to getting a 10 gallon tank? Look at all of the costs of setting up an aquarium, stand, light, filtration, livestock, aquascaping, etc. The additional cost of a 30 gallon or 40 gallon is small when all of these things are considered. Your set up will last longer than your desire to keep it... that being said, you'll want the larger tank longer.
I have bred plenty of mbuna species in 40 gallon tanks, you'll be happy with the results or something similar.
-Richard
ddayton21
11-29-2005, 9:57 PM
reasons why 10 gallons is because
1) he needs a fairly small tank for his room
2) i already have a 10g tank, filter, air pump, and gravel for a 10G
3) my budget isn't very high
P.S.
I just talked to him and he said he would be glad to do some learning as long as the fish was one that interested him (not to say that he would slack off if he got bored with the fish...which wouldn't happen anyway lol)
mooman
11-30-2005, 9:03 AM
Don't give up on the shellies. Oceletus would be cool, somewhat colorful, aggresive, and although feeder fish would be a bad idea, a showdown between an adult oceletus and some ghost shrimp would be very cool and less risky (disease wise) than feeder fish.
Slashdogg
12-01-2005, 4:02 AM
I wouldn't keep Lamprologus ocellatus in a 10 gallon tank. I have 6 in a 30 gallon, and their territories cover pretty much the whole tank, especially the one dominant male, who takes up at least third of the floor space.
Neolamprologus brevis or N. multifasciatus would be a better choice for a 10 gallon. They're much less aggressive than L. occelatus.
Nah...don't get the brevis...they're boring....lol.....all they do is hang around next to thier shells...or IN them.......boring boring boring....! :rolleyes:
The Neolamprologus multifacsiatus (multis) on the other hand !! Now They are interesting ! Very active diggers and only keep a small area for thier "space". You could have a nice colony of those in a 10 and sell off any extras, and you will have extras..lol.....one of the interesting things about these fish is that they breed alot and you'll have all different generations in your tank all the time. (the parents DON't eat their young!) They only have a few at a time and I find I don't have to fuss at all taking care of the fry. The hardy ones survive, and you don't want huge amounts of babies in a small 10 gallon anyway.
They're a hardy fish and I would recommend reef sand and crushed coral as a substrate...definitely sand of some type....and plenty of shells for them to pick over and move around. I don't have enough shells in my tank yet...I add them a few at a time as I find them for a reasonable price.
Anyway, I think your friend would like these fish....that is....IF he gets the tank.... ;)
~*LuvMyKribs*~
12-01-2005, 9:27 AM
I wouldn't keep Lamprologus ocellatus in a 10 gallon tank. I have 6 in a 30 gallon, and their territories cover pretty much the whole tank, especially the one dominant male, who takes up at least third of the floor space.
Neolamprologus brevis or N. multifasciatus would be a better choice for a 10 gallon. They're much less aggressive than L. occelatus.
Yeah I learned that the hard way lol... Even with 1 male and 1 female much care needs to be taken to break up the territory with rocks and hiding places cus that dom male is MEAN.
HOWEVER - it was my dominant female that killed two others in the tank, not the male. ;)
-Diana
ddayton21
12-01-2005, 10:03 AM
Someone told me 1 convict cichlid could fit in a 10G tank but this seems a little cramped to me. What do you think?
mrbigmuscles
12-01-2005, 11:16 AM
Nah...don't get the brevis...they're boring....lol.....all they do is hang around next to thier shells...or IN them.......boring boring boring....! :rolleyes:
The Neolamprologus multifacsiatus (multis) on the other hand !! Now They are interesting ! Very active diggers and only keep a small area for thier "space". You could have a nice colony of those in a 10 and sell off any extras, and you will have extras..lol.....one of the interesting things about these fish is that they breed alot and you'll have all different generations in your tank all the time. (the parents DON't eat their young!) They only have a few at a time and I find I don't have to fuss at all taking care of the fry. The hardy ones survive, and you don't want huge amounts of babies in a small 10 gallon anyway.
They're a hardy fish and I would recommend reef sand and crushed coral as a substrate...definitely sand of some type....and plenty of shells for them to pick over and move around. I don't have enough shells in my tank yet...I add them a few at a time as I find them for a reasonable price.
Anyway, I think your friend would like these fish....that is....IF he gets the tank.... ;)
how does reef sand affect the water chemistry? i was under the impression that it had all kinds of organisms and crap that would screw up a FW tank.
~*LuvMyKribs*~
12-01-2005, 3:21 PM
how does reef sand affect the water chemistry? i was under the impression that it had all kinds of organisms and crap that would screw up a FW tank.
No, your thinking of live sand. Reef sand is just basically crushed coral and agronite.... and will just buffer the pH of the water to about 8.2
:)
-Diana
Well, the "reef sand" I used said is was good for salt or freshwater and doesn't have silicate in it, which does alter the water chemestry I believe......
I added the crushed coral to increase the hardness of my water...because the water I have is seriously soft (KH-40 mg/l....GH-60ppm) and also for something to help hold the sand together...lol....the way they dig I didn't want anyone to get buried alive ! (not that that would ever happen)...besides, I like the look of the mix of sand and coral.
Fun fish...!
indiginess
12-02-2005, 12:04 AM
Well, the "reef sand" I used said is was good for salt or freshwater and doesn't have silicate in it, which does alter the water chemestry I believe......
silicates do not alter water chemistry. they are normally insoluable in water. thats why beaches are sand. the two most common thing on earth are.. silicates and water.
i'm taking silicate to mean: composed on silicon
silicon aquarium sealant, glass (silicon) aquariums, etc.
or you ment reef sand... in Which case, nevermind
:cool: