Sick Angel, please help

[davidwh]

My angel looks a little boated, and tends to turn upside down while swimming. I changed the water yesterday, and she went straight to the top and stayed there for a while, she seemed to get a little worse through the night, and now looks to be in pretty bad shape. She did "poop" three times last night a lot in pretty close progression.

[CharlieV]

My angels sometimes overeat on bloodworm and it constipates them for a while. No dodgy swimming though.
The only Angels I've had that swim funny were a couple of Altums I first had - unfortuneately they died.
Is she being pushed with the current - mine were and that was the moment I had to put them out of their misery.
Maybe someone else can shed some light but it doesn't sound too good to me

[davidwh]

Thanks, Charlie. One thing I forgot to add. It appears now as though she was about to lay some eggs right before I changed the water. The new water (about 50/50 swap) was colder than the original. I was wondering if that would prevent her from laying, and thus cause some kind of infection? I know that unlaid eggs can kill some animal species such as reptiles.

[CharlieV]

erm I'll try and answer this but still a relative newb!

The water could have been an issue - if it was more than a couple of degrees F out it could have stressed her. I try to match minie as closely as possible to tank temp prior to adding as 1 of my Plecs is super sensitive (L316).
Does she have a partner in the tank?
Mine spawned for first time (pair in 30g on member page) last week. They ate the eggs. I think eggs are only a problem if they develop a fungus. I have read that most fish will eat these infected eggs to stop the rot forom spreading to other eggs.

Is she eating?
Any chance she could be bullied by another angel / fish?
Any toxins in water? (Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate?)
what size tank etc.........

If you add these details (with results of any tests you caqrry out) someone with more knowledge could be able to help (am feeling dumb this avo!)


HTH a little!

[davidwh]

The new water was definately colder, but it wasn't any different than what I do the other times I've changed it out. Adding water softener (chlorine neutralizer), stress relief, and algaecide. Because it was colder, I am concerned about the eggs she didn't lay. She lays just about twice a month like clockwork. No outward sores or anything. She is slightly bloated still. Temp is about 80. I'm not sure about the PH. I'll check it and post it.

[davidwh]

Thanks again Charlie, Anyone else got some info??? Please!!!

[davidwh]

I think she is just about at the end. This morning, there were fleshy pieces (love to know what that is), and she is barely swimming. I'd love to know what happened, since I still have an Angel.

[gabrielandco.]

fleshy pieces? strange. where were these? hanging off her?
silly question: doyou know for sure she was thick b/c she was full of eggs? what color was the poop?

i am currently getting a lot of help at angelfish.net.....as another forum member has mentioned it here and that is how i found it.

good luck.

[Sully]

Start with the basics. Find out what your ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, ph, gh, and temp are. Quantify the numbers, Specific values as opposed to "about", "fine", or "ok". Critical in any disease resolution is knowing that the water in the tank is suitable to support the fish. Often times it is pointless to treat a disease if the water is the root of the problem.

How big is the tank? How long has it been set-up? How often and how much water do you change? What other fish are in the tank--how many of each kind? How is the tank decorated?

When you have a health problem in the tank the progression of thought typically starts with water, moves to stocing, and finishes at decor. Then the thinking brings observable symptoms into the process. Sharing that information with others is really helpful. And, if possible a sort of "tank history". Identifying any "other" recent problems you have had. The duration of the problems and the steps used to treat the problems.

Swimming up side down would indicate a swim bladder problem to me. The causes can be bacterial, viral, or parasitic in nature. Even genetic if the angel is from a strain that has been too intensively line bred and has structural deformities. Usually you find that bacterial is the reason though. An inflammation of the lining of the swim bladder. Often times caused by water quality issues.

You might try maracyn or maracyn II. But, if the water or stocking parameters are out of whack it is often a wasted step. The stress created by inappropriate tank conditions create a stress level rendering any medication regime moot.

Don't have a crystal ball--but, with a little help from you i imagine a large number of people here can help you out.

[davidwh]

She was in a 10 gal tank (alone), and is now in a 5 gal tank. PetsMart was no help at all. I have given her Maroxy and salt, but she looks pretty bad right now. She looked this bad yesterday, and I actually had the tank at the men's restroom door, but when I look in the tank she was swimming almost normally. I'm hoping for the same today, but I'm losing optimism quickly.

Yes, she did have the eggs in her, and although she has pooped very little, what she has pooped was a dark red (that's pretty usual); what was different is that usually it is tightly wrapped feces (completely circular), this time it appeared to look like it was unravelling.

I am uncertain of the Ph, because I didn't check the water before I did about a 75/25 switch. I do this about once every couple of weeks for the last 5 years, and I've never had any problems.

Even if I lose her, I'd like to know what happened if anyone can give me some information.

[Roan Art]

David,

What do you mean about 75/25 switch? 75% fresh water? Or 25%?

We need to know the ammonia, nitrite and nitrate readings. Especially the nitrate, I'm thinking. Please either get a liquid test kit and test it yourself or take a sample of your water to the LFS and ask them to test it. Get numbers, not "yah, it's okay".

Exactly what Sully said. We can't help you and we can't tell you what's wrong with her unless we have that information. We *DO* want to help you!

Roan

[davidwh]

I will get the water quality numbers this morning. I agree that it appears to be swim bladder related. My main question is: is this terminal, or can she pull through, if it is a swim bladder problem. Thanks to everyone for the information so far.

David.

[davidwh]

The rest of the story....
Like yesterday at this time, she is swimming around almost normal. She is alert, and seems to focus on me. She is still not eating which makes it tough getting the medicine in food form down her. I am giving her salt and external parasite medicine frequently, as well as 50/50 water change every 5-6 hours. I can't emphasize enough that yesterday morning I was 5 steps from the toilet; I thought she was dead. Again, this morning, she was laying on the bottom...motionless and appeared to be dead. Now she is swimming around even a little better than yesterday afternoon. I have her in an aquarium at work, and I am concerned that when I come in tomorrow morning, it's going to be like the last two mornings (or worse). Any ideas as to what is going on? I haven't been able to check the Ph, I will bring my tester tomorrow from home. I thought she was on the road to recovery last night, but now I'm trying to hold my optimism until I see what she looks like in the morning.

Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

David.

[davidwh]

Wow, what a week. See the picture of my angel. Early last week, I was 10 feet from the toilet. I set her Hospital Tank down to open the men's room door when she kind of jumped (I thought she was dead), and tried to swim. I couldn't flush a fish that was trying to swim and seemed alert in the eyes. Anyway, a week of spending a lot of time at the office (it's my office tank), and much medication (Coppersafe, Maroxy, aquarium salt, anti-parasite medication food, and stress reliever), she seems much better!!! As you can see by the picture (camera phone pic so not great). Here's my next question...she seems much lighter now; like a very light tan rather than her usual black (on her stripes). Is there a reason for this? I have had her water temp. pretty high during this recovery, and I was thinking that was it. Now I'm wondering if I've given her too much medication? I'm thinking that tonight is the last night for the meds. It's been about a week since I started giving them to her, and she really seems to have recovered almost completely (she can't show off her swimming skills that much in the little tank). Any info would be greatly appreciated, and I truly appreciate all the input I've received so far.

[davidwh]

Does anyone have any ideas as to why my angel's usually silver head and top have turned a tannish color? Please see my post and picture above. Thank you very much.

[gabrielandco.]

i am no expert, but perhaps the color change is just the stress. i have seen seemingly healthy angels this color.

is her behavior back to normal? swimming and eating? hang in there!