CO2 Shopping List

[Roan Art]

It's getting down to the wire to where I need to purchase all the stuff I need for my 75g tanks. I've played with DIY CO2 and found I have lousy KH and am working on bringing that up. I'm still going to play with the pop bottles, but I need a list of what I need to buy to use pressurized CO2 for those tanks. Can someone help me out here? Other than the actual CO2 + tank, I really don't know what to shop for.

Thanks!

Roan

[djlen]

Hit the bars, clubs, welding shops, catering halls for used tanks. Don't buy a new one because the odds are that the place you end up going to will take your empty and hand you a (used) full one. Most of the above mentioned places will have 20# tanks and you really don't want to go any smaller than that or you'll be getting refills way more often than necessary.
You will need a double gage regulator and a needle valve. You will need a gang valve system if you intend to inject into more than one aquarium out of one tank. I inject into two tanks using a brass 'T' and two needle valves.....works fine.
That's all the equipment I use. Some people buy units to turn the gas on and off automatically with, and bubble counters. IMO, these are unnecessary, but whatever plows your field. I've heard a lot of complaints about solenoids going bad.

My own personal question....is that Gaelic in your signature? Love that Celtic music!!!! :):)

Len

[Roan Art]

Hit the bars, clubs, welding shops, catering halls for used tanks. Don't buy a new one because the odds are that the place you end up going to will take your empty and hand you a (used) full one. Most of the above mentioned places will have 20# tanks and you really don't want to go any smaller than that or you'll be getting refills way more often than necessary.There's a paintball club in my area and someone told me to get in touch with them to get the tank filled. I'll do what you suggest to source the actual tank itself.

You will need a double gage regulator and a needle valve. You will need a gang valve system if you intend to inject into more than one aquarium out of one tank. I inject into two tanks using a brass 'T' and two needle valves.....works fine.I'll get a gang valve, just in case, but I don't think any of the tanks will be near each other.

That's all the equipment I use. Some people buy units to turn the gas on and off automatically with, and bubble counters. IMO, these are unnecessary, but whatever plows your field. I've heard a lot of complaints about solenoids going bad.I might get a bubble counter, but dunno about the others. I had priced a fully auto system and it was $500! Sheesh!

Thanks for your help, Len!

My own personal question....is that Gaelic in your signature? Love that Celtic music!!!! :):)Scots Gaelic, yes :) Do you like Runrig, Wolfstone or Capercaille? Or are you more of an Enya guy? I've got some Dagda stuff that's really awesome, but I'm more into the real Gaelic language music like Marie Jane Lamond.

Roan

[Captain Hook]

Looks like you have a pretty good handle on what you need. I've heard good things about the Milwaukee all-in-one systems (regulator, solenoid and needle valve I believe). Never tried them personally though. I think you can find them online for around $80.

For the tank, I bought mine at a fire extinguisher place. I've heard that all CO2 is the same, there's no "food grade" or anything like that, but that place was where my local Big Al's store gets their CO2 refills so that was reassuring.

I'm going to have to disagree with Len that anything under a 20 pound tank would be too small. I think a 10 pound+ tank would do the job well. You should be able to get 6 months or more easily on a 10 pounder I think.

[djlen]

The main reason I mentioned the tank size is because in your original post you mention, 'stuff I need for my 75gal. tanks'.
I you are going to run two tanks and at least one of them will be a 75, I would still recommend a 20# bottle. They are heavy, especially when full, but smaller tanks obviously run out of gas sooner.

I like them all. Capercaille is a favorite, but I also like Mary Black, The Chieftans, James Galway, Eileen Ivers, Clannad, Delores Keane, and a ton of others.

Len

[pbrack]

The all-in-one regualtors can be found at www.thatfishplace.com . You probably already knew this though

Go raibh maith agat :D
Is this even spelt correctly?

[Roan Art]

The all-in-one regualtors can be found at www.thatfishplace.com . You probably already knew this though Yes, I did. Is it any good?

Go raibh maith agat :D
Is this even spelt correctly?I think so, but that's Irish :)

Tapadh leibh, in Gaelic. It's confusing: Gaelic is Scots Gaelic and Irish is Irish Gaelic. So someone either speaks Gaelic or Irish. Then there's Manx, Welsh, Breton, and the other one that I always forget.

I've been learning Gaelic off and on for a long time. The funny thing is that 3 years into studying it I found out that I'm *not* Scottish. I'm Irish :) My mother was from Glasgow, but HER parents and grandparents came from Co. Tyrone and Leitrim (Leitrim is based on very slight evidence). I have one direct ancestor on her side that I can't trace back to Ireland. That one ends in Strathaven, Avondale, Scotland in the early 1800s.

Blah, sorry, genealogy is another hobby of mine and I blather on like I do with my tanks and fish.

Roan

[Roan Art]

Looks like you have a pretty good handle on what you need.I would disagree. I feel like a blind person in a jar of jello trying to find that lone undissolved granual of sugar.

I've heard good things about the Milwaukee all-in-one systems (regulator, solenoid and needle valve I believe). Never tried them personally though. I think you can find them online for around $80.Oh, I saw that somewhere! Here, are these them: SM500 ORP Smart Meter, SMS122 Aquarium pH Monitor/Controller, SM102 Aquarium pH Meter* ?

http://www.marineandreef.com/shoppro/electronics_milwaukee.html

Which is best?

I'm going to have to disagree with Len that anything under a 20 pound tank would be too small. I think a 10 pound+ tank would do the job well. You should be able to get 6 months or more easily on a 10 pounder I think.Yah, but with a 20# I could possibly go for a whole year :) I'm lazy in that respect. Have to see what the prices are for them.

Roan

[Roan Art]

The main reason I mentioned the tank size is because in your original post you mention, 'stuff I need for my 75gal. tanks'.Actually 3 x 75g tanks. One with Boesemani, one with Pseudoincisus and one with Silver Dollars and tetras.

I you are going to run two tanks and at least one of them will be a 75, I would still recommend a 20# bottle. They are heavy, especially when full, but smaller tanks obviously run out of gas sooner. Hrm, you know I think that I would probably be better off with 3x20# and 1x10#. The ten would be a spare, just in case. My middle name is Redundancy :)

I like them all. Capercaille is a favorite, but I also like Mary Black, The Chieftans, James Galway, Eileen Ivers, Clannad, Delores Keane, and a ton of others.I've not heard the others, but then again I haven't had much time lately to listen to a lot of music or even explore that area. Someone told me that Silly Wizard was a great band. Have you heard them?

Roan

[Captain Hook]

My mistake I didn't catch that. Len's right, in your situation the bigger the better!

Sorry I can't really help with the ph monitors and nice testers like you linked to. I just use plain old test strips and visual checks in the tank. The plants will give you a good indication of CO2 levels with pearling and health.

[Puffernewbee]

Drs Foster and Smith has two set-ups. One semi automatic and the other fully automatic. The appear to come with everything you need except the tank. I have been thinking about them because I am looking to plant my 72 gallon.
CO2 Drs Foster and Smith (http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/NavResults.cfm?Ntt=co%2D2&Ntk=All&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&Np=1&pc=1&N=2004&Nty=1)

[Roan Art]

Sorry I can't really help with the ph monitors and nice testers like you linked to. I just use plain old test strips and visual checks in the tank. The plants will give you a good indication of CO2 levels with pearling and health.Mabye YOU can do with test strips and visual checks, but I haven't clue what is good and what isn't. You're obviously much more experienced than I with this, which is why I'd rather have it semi-automated. I'd rather not kill my plants and fish because of my own ignorance.

Heck, I don't even know what "pearliing" is :)

Roan

[Roan Art]

Drs Foster and Smith has two set-ups. One semi automatic and the other fully automatic. The appear to come with everything you need except the tank. I have been thinking about them because I am looking to plant my 72 gallon.
CO2 Drs Foster and Smith (http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/NavResults.cfm?Ntt=co%2D2&Ntk=All&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&Np=1&pc=1&N=2004&Nty=1)I saw those and the price isn't bad for the semi-auto one, but are they any good? Do you of anyone who purchased them at all?

Roan

[djlen]

If you've got the money and the inclination to spend that obscene amount of money for a 'system', go for it. And I don't think spending huge amounts of money on pH testers makes sense either. The hobbiest level test kits like Aquarium Pharmaceuticals are not perfectly accurate, but they are close enough and once you're set up and running you use them more for reference (did it go up or drop) to adjust dosages and/or injection rates.
You really only need the basics for injection IMO. Before you spend big bucks for a new tank, check with your local welding shop or wherever you intend to get refilled to make sure that they can fill your empty tank on the spot (no waiting) or do they intend to swap your new tank for a filled used one. As I said earlier, most shops just take your empty and hand you a full one, at least in this area.

With regard to the music......it's my life and vocation. Take away Rap and Metal, and there's not much I don't like, but Celtic and Blues have a special place in my heart.
Listening to Ray Charles in a duet with Bonnie Raitt at this moment....good stuff!!!!:)

[EDIT] There is a nice, bare bones regulator/bubble counter available on one of these sites and I can't remember the site. I'm sure someone will link you to it eventually.

Len

[dougall]

I'm currently looking myself... partly initiated by this thread,

but the semi automatic kit is ~$120, for regulator, diffuser, bubble counter, timer, solenoid + tubing.

from what I'm seeing that's not exactly obscene, and is somewhere around the ballpark for the setup.. the only automatic part of it is the timer + solenoid.

Is there something missing ? or am I just aiming high. I haven't seen a regulator for much less than $75 or at least not one I'd consider using.. I'm not likely to get a budget welding regulator for $30...


Does anyone have any suggestions for suppliers, or preferred pieces of equipment ?

[reiverix]

I've been using the JBJ regulator (http://aquariumplant.com/cgi-bin/cart/pr840.html) for over a year. No complaints but I was plant newbie at the time and if I was going to go compressed on another tank I'd probably take Lens advice and look for cheaper alternatives. The whole point is to get a controllable amount of CO2 into the aquarium, so it really doesn't need to be something that looks like it came from Star Trek.

But still, the JBJ was literally plug and play which made me feel somehow safer and less prone to messing up. I also do use the solenoid and shut of the CO2 at night which gives me double the lifetime out of my CO2 tank.

[Roan Art]

If you've got the money and the inclination to spend that obscene amount of money for a 'system', go for it. And I don't think spending huge amounts of money on pH testers makes sense either. The hobbiest level test kits like Aquarium Pharmaceuticals are not perfectly accurate, but they are close enough and once you're set up and running you use them more for reference (did it go up or drop) to adjust dosages and/or injection rates.Did those things I linked have pH testers? I really didn't look at them. Captain Hook said Milwaukee and I linked in the page. I was hoping he would point out which one he was talking about :(

You really only need the basics for injection IMO. Before you spend big bucks for a new tank, check with your local welding shop or wherever you intend to get refilled to make sure that they can fill your empty tank on the spot (no waiting) or do they intend to swap your new tank for a filled used one. As I said earlier, most shops just take your empty and hand you a full one, at least in this area.Oh, I wasn't talking about buying new tanks! I meant that I would buy used ones -- 3x20# and 1x10# -- and get them refilled.

With regard to the music......it's my life and vocation. Take away Rap and Metal, and there's not much I don't like, but Celtic and Blues have a special place in my heart.Heh, I can't deal with rap at all and what I used to call heavy metal is like "pop" music now :)
Listening to Ray Charles in a duet with Bonnie Raitt at this moment....good stuff!!!!:)Heh :)

[EDIT] There is a nice, bare bones regulator/bubble counter available on one of these sites and I can't remember the site. I'm sure someone will link you to it eventually.That will help. Hope someone does. Thanks!

[Roan Art]

I'm currently looking myself... partly initiated by this thread,

but the semi automatic kit is ~$120, for regulator, diffuser, bubble counter, timer, solenoid + tubing.

from what I'm seeing that's not exactly obscene, and is somewhere around the ballpark for the setup.. the only automatic part of it is the timer + solenoid. Well, yah, that's what I concluded as well. I haven't been able to put together anything price wise that was a huge savings over just buying the whole wack at once. It's certainly easier that way. Dunno.

Is there something missing ? or am I just aiming high. I haven't seen a regulator for much less than $75 or at least not one I'd consider using.. I'm not likely to get a budget welding regulator for $30...
Me neither. There's that JB one that was pointed out and that one is 85$

I'm so confuzzled.

Roan

[djlen]

Scroll back up to reiverix's post and link for a nice regulator with all the gadgets at a reasonable price. That's the one I was talking about previously. A good buy and I've heard nice things about it.
I knew it this thread went long enough, someone would link to it. The only drawback that I can see, or maybe I just am over looking something, but I can't figure out how with the needle valve built in, would you 'Tee' it off to two other tanks?
Maybe if you explore the site they have a different package without the built in needle valve.
This is, by far the nicest all-in-one unit that I've seen, and perfect for a one tank set up if you want all the extras.

Len

[Roan Art]

Scroll back up to reiverix's post and link for a nice regulator with all the gadgets at a reasonable price. That's the one I was talking about previously. A good buy and I've heard nice things about it.
I knew it this thread went long enough, someone would link to it. The only drawback that I can see, or maybe I just am over looking something, but I can't figure out how with the needle valve built in, would you 'Tee' it off to two other tanks?
Maybe if you explore the site they have a different package without the built in needle valve.
This is, by far the nicest all-in-one unit that I've seen, and perfect for a one tank set up if you want all the extras.

LenOh cool! That's the one I was thinking of getting. Okay, I'm gonna keep looking around that site and see what I can find.

Thanks, Len!

Roan

[reiverix]

As far as I can see, it would take a bit of ingenius thinking to hook up more than one aquarium to the JBJ. Not impossible though, no doubt.

The next stage of your battle plan will be deciding on how to get the CO2 dissolved into your aquarium water. Any thoughts on this part yet?

[dougall]

http://aquariumplant.com/cgi-bin/cart/manifold.html

?? seems simple enough to me..

but for the reactor/diffusor I was looking at the aquamedic reactor 500. of course I can only find it on ebay.. but it looks like it might be fun to watch ;)

[Roan Art]

For me, I'm going to pretty much have to have a system for each tank, since most of them aren't going to be beside each other. Someone pointed me to gang valves. Wouldn't that work?

As for the diffuser, I'm currently using a micro bubbler airstone. The bubbles are VERY fine and get picked up by the current and swung around the tank.

Would that still work? Or do I need something more fancy? They're cheap and easy to get, too.

Roan

[Roan Art]

What about this?

http://aquariumplant.com/cgi-bin/cart/pr009.html

Couldn't I just use something like this yeast reactor and pump to start up with and then add a tank later? Would it work for a 75g tank?

Roan

[reiverix]

Dougall, that looks like the perfect item for multi tanks.

Roan, I originally built a DIY reactor from PVC tubing. Very easy to build but it had a bit of an effect on the flow from my cannister.

http://truescotland.com/react.jpg

Lately I've been experimenting with the Azoo diffuser (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7720454882&category=3212). It gives out very fine microbubbles. I then have the bubbles sucked into a powerhead. This is giving me a far better distribution of CO2 (I had to actually turn down the bubble count), which leads me to believe my reactor was probably flawed in some way.

Another cheaper option is this fine pore diffuser (http://www.aquaticeco.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/product.detail/iid/9751/cid/2328). It's very cheap. Tom Barr has been using them and says they work great.

A lot of people just run the tubing directly into their filter intake. I don't do this because CO2 is corrosive through time. How corrosive? No idea :D

[dougall]

well.. I'm mostly made up.. it's either between the JBJ or Milwaukee regulator, and then whatever diffuser takes my fancy at the time.

Is there any real difference or preference between the 2? both seem to be roughly the same price..

As an aside, I really wish my wife hadn't thrown out the 30% off coupon for that pet place.. otherwise I'd be half way there by now. I guess I'm going to settle for buying from ebay and using the current 10% off paypal offer.

Then i'll just need to find somewhere locally for a tank and I'll have a nice weekend project for myself.


wish me luck.

[reiverix]

The JBJ has a built in check valve. I think that's about it on difference.

Good luck.

[Roan Art]

Roan, I originally built a DIY reactor from PVC tubing. Very easy to build but it had a bit of an effect on the flow from my cannister.That's quite the creation. Dunno if I can do something like that :)

Lately I've been experimenting with the Azoo diffuser (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7720454882&category=3212). It gives out very fine microbubbles. I then have the bubbles sucked into a powerhead. This is giving me a far better distribution of CO2 (I had to actually turn down the bubble count), which leads me to believe my reactor was probably flawed in some way.The Azoo looks like the one that Foster & Smith sells.

Another cheaper option is this fine pore diffuser (http://www.aquaticeco.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/product.detail/iid/9751/cid/2328). It's very cheap. Tom Barr has been using them and says they work great.Yes, those are like the one that I'm using, but it's called a "Rena Micro Bubbler":

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=3722&N=2004+113405

I bought it for my betta tank when Jakers had ich. With the heat up so high, I wanted to make sure the otos were getting enough oxygen and I didn't want big bubbles that would blow Jakers around.

This one is make of ceramic, though, and the others you pointed out are silica. Does that matter or will CO2 degrade it?

A lot of people just run the tubing directly into their filter intake. I don't do this because CO2 is corrosive through time. How corrosive? No idea :DI've heard some horror stories so I don't wanna go that way.

Roan

[sardesign]

Just remember... strap the CO2 tank upright so it CAN'T fall on it's side... otherwise you will have VERY bad things happen to your home. I've seen a few tanks fall over (CO2, Oxygen, and Nitrogen) in a shop. SCARY STUFF!!!