Breeding bettas

[fishisme]

Well i am going to try and spawn my bettas. I hope it works. Ok do you guys think my tank is set up right. I am just letting them view each other right now but when it comes to spawning is it ok? any sugestions would be great.
here are some pics
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c141/spads_rule/set1copy.jpg
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c141/spads_rule/set3copy.jpg
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c141/spads_rule/Gangstacopy.jpg

[Betta-Luvn]

Mmmmkay well first off if they do have a sucessful spawn be prepared with places to put all the babys.

[tricksterpup]

I personally would have used a tank devider instead of the jar there and give her awhile in that thank. I would pm TheMightyQueenPixie for some pointers or take a look at her thread.
She is the resident brain on breeding and raising Bettas. She has good show quality fish.
http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58582&highlight=betta+pictures

[fishisme]

I got the room and every thing but is there any thing i should change? I really want this one 2 work.

[tricksterpup]

I got the room and every thing but is there any thing i should change? I really want this one 2 work.
Then I would shoot TheMightyQueenPixie a pm.. she should give you all the pointers you need.

[fishisme]

ok i might do that... I will talk to her when shes on. I have talked to her a bit but i wonder what she will say?

[Emg]

You might want to be sure the top of the bottle she's in is tall enough that either one can't jump over it. Bettas are fantastic jumpers !

Looks good, though I used a hurricane lamp...what you've set up there looks just about as good.

Wait for the male to have a good size bubble nest and the female will show verticle stripes and take a head down position when the male comes near...you will also notice the ovipositor at her vent will be very obvious when she's ready to toss some eggs.

Keep an eye on them during the process and make sure there is something in the tank for the female to hide if she needs to.

All the best in your efforts Fishinme ! Do think about what you will be putting any fry in that you get. You will most likely not have to seperate them before 3 months though, just be sure to have something setup and ready for when you do !

[Rometiklan]

If you cut off the bottom 2 inches of that plastic bottle, you will be able to trap and release the female without too much disturbance of the fish, and bubblenest.

[Roan Art]

All I could think of when I saw that pic was, "how did he get that betta through the hole in the top of the pop bottle?"

Course I knew you had to have cut it, but it made me think :)

Roan

[TheMightyQueenPixie]

well, the good news is your female is more then ready to go...a couple things you need are 1) a spawning site 2) protection for your female...
You can use half of a styrofoam cup cut lenthwise (looks like a quanset hut) or a piece of bubble wrap affixed with a piece of tape to the edge of the glass...Your male should be attracted to it and start building a nest under it... Add a few plants...Plastic is fine as long as they are soft and not pointy...I like to place them at one side of the tank...Maybe 6 inches from the side...This will give her a safe place to hide...
Personally I like to use a container that allows the phermones to flow through...The pop bottle doesnt allow that, but it isnt a big deal...Dump a bit of her water into his and top off hers with tank water...Good luck...
:)

[fishisme]

WOW thanks. well i did some stuff last night.
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c141/spads_rule/newcopy.jpg

and i woke up ands saw the nest. but i am going to do the bubble rap thing.... do i wait or do i try and spawn them?

[TheMightyQueenPixie]

If he has made a nice big nest, you dont need to add bubble wrap or a cup..The nest looks good...DO YOU HAVE YOUR MICROWORMS YET??? YOU ABSOLUTELY NEED THEM...Your fry will starve to death and no other food is small enough for them...Basically that pair is good to go, but you must have m.ws...

[fishisme]

ya i email bc bettas aqain but no reply... so i am not sure what 2 do? could i put food in a blender? It would have 2 be alot of food but who cares. i would get some if i could order them.

[TheMightyQueenPixie]

NOTHING is small enough...NOTHING...Microworms it has to be.
I couldnt tell from the pic, but do you have some plants for the female to hide in? Very important.

[fishisme]

Well now i do, So why isnt bc bettas responding? Any other place in canada that sells micro worms?

[TheMightyQueenPixie]

Give her a few days to respond..Also, how big is that tank the pair is in? Do you have more then 5"of water? If so, drain it until it is half full. Check out the "Betta Pictorial Spawning log" for set up info...

[fishisme]

i am using a 5 gal, only tank thats free. So drain the water half way, i have read that but i just dont no why?

[reziztor]

ah... Crap. I was about to start spawning my Betta this weekend and use baby brine shrimp that are less than 24 hours old... Wont work?

[tricksterpup]

Well now i do, So why isnt bc bettas responding? Any other place in canada that sells micro worms?
Here is a mail order place the BUG FARM.
http://www.livefoodcultures.com/

[robush4]

Like the subject says, i bred bettas at a time and remember some of the thigns that you are worried about. first of all, you do not HAVE to have microworms. you can go to pet stores around you or maybe your lfs and buy a brine shrimp breeder. these come in many forms, and you can even google them and build your own. total cost of this plus the brine shrimp eggs should be about 12 dollars. all you need to do is hatch the baby brine shrimp and then use something like a syringe or spoon or something similar to put the baby brine shrimp around the fry when they become active (basically whne they are free swimming b/c their yolk sac is mostly gone). Also, if you have a very conditioned sponge filter or anything like that, it will help by having microorganisms on it that betta fry can eat. in fact, some people say the best way to breed bettas is to dump the fry into a large "pond" they have created and let sit stagnant for a while. this is probably how most bettas that you buy in stored were raised. also, something this i might add is to let the water in your breeding tank down to about 8 inches. this helps with the male getting the eggs more efficiently and may even encourage the female to help him. if this poses a problem because you have an external heater, you can just use another coke 2 liter bottle full of water and put the heater in that and put that in the breeding tank. and for hiding places for female because less water equals less running room, i would put some long pvc pipe in there (go to lowe's or something and buy some and link it together in a little maze type thing.) ir buy like a little structure one might buy for a hampster and give that for her to hide in. basically somethign you can remove once she is gone. hope these things help. don't worry too much- if everything goes wrong the first time, it's not like you will have to wait that long before trying again.

[TheMightyQueenPixie]

i am using a 5 gal, only tank thats free. So drain the water half way, i have read that but i just dont no why?

Well, there are a few reasons...
#1 The male doesnt have to travel as far to get to the dropped eggs and fry...He can repeat this process several hundred times hence getting pretty tired...The shorter distance is easier on him...
#2 There is no way to clean that tank when the fry are young...They are waaaay too small and you will vaccuum them up. Sooo, instead of removing water to dilute wastes, we add...

A 5 gal is really not a great idea...If you get a large spawn you will have to move them sooner to a grow out tank...Betta fry are fragile and sensitive to these changes.

[TheMightyQueenPixie]

ah... Crap. I was about to start spawning my Betta this weekend and use baby brine shrimp that are less than 24 hours old... Wont work?

Sorry, too big...Microworms or nothing.

[TheMightyQueenPixie]

Robush: Basically what you are talking about is "infusoria" and yes, it is a great first food for tiny fry...Takes a few weeks to culture your own, but it does work...BBS for the most part is way too large for most newborns...There is also discussion about it causing swim bladder disorder in Bettas...Not sure if this has been proven yet, but I avoid them and never have a problem...Also, microworms live longer in the tank and wiggle alot..This attracts the fry to them...

[robush4]

i have no experience with microworms. how would you set up a culture of them or obtain them ( as cheaply as possible...im pretty broke) last time i used BBS and got okay results. i had about 10 make it all the way thru. i expect the problem was more in other first time mistakes because i still had about 60 when they made it past that first crucial stage where feeding them is so hard. however, i would like to try again now with microworms. i was about 15 when i did it last time, too. it was a genetics experiment. now i am in college and thought it would be fun to try again. thanks

[TheMightyQueenPixie]

Robush- You can try "the bug farm" for some interesting "combos" of fry foods...These cultures will carry them through to a juvenile stage easily...OR, you can go to www.aquabid.com... Microworms are cheap and easy to culture...Almost too easy...I feed my microworms regular flake fish food, basically gut loading them with vitamins, then feed them to the fry...As long as you keep those wormies warm (70-80) you will be able to harvest them every day, sometimes twice...They are a real fry saver. Another thing to consider is infusoria as a first food...usually consumed within the first two days after the yolk sac is empty...I just float some "water lettuce" in the tank and let the dead leaves rot...You will notice the fry hanging around these rotty leaves... I only add about 3 small plants, but thus far they have carried a few spawns through...Good luck :)

[fishisme]

Ok i still need micro worms, Then when its time i got to empty my tank half way, i might try live food cultures, I cant find the prices? were are they? http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c141/spads_rule/100_1563copy.jpg

[tricksterpup]

Ok i still need micro worms, Then when its time i got to empty my tank half way, i might try live food cultures, I cant find the prices? were are they? http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c141/spads_rule/100_1563copy.jpg
I would shoot them an email at questions@livefoodcultures.com and see what response you get. If you do not get a response you can always try this site as well. http://www.aquaculturestore.com/fwinverts.html
If you have questions, Paul is pretty good with responses there. I order my hets , scuds and daphina from him.



PS, also keep us updated with your photo diary of your fish. I would love to see how things go for you. Also if it fails, don't loose hope and try again, sooner or later your fish will get it right.

[fishisme]

Ya i cant wait, i email them, hope they reply soon, I wonder if they take pay pal? i dont want to take all the time and send them a $ order :(

[Emg]

NOTHING is small enough...NOTHING...Microworms it has to be.
.

When I bred my bettas, I used infusoria as a first food. I let a piece of lettuce soak in some water in the sun..After a day or two there was a nice cloud of infusoria in the water. If you shine a light on one end of the container, the infusoria is attracted to that end and you syphon them out and put them in with the fry. That's how I did it anyway....when they were a bit larger I fed the bbs.

I imagine if you have a good amount of java moss in the tank with the fry, there should be enough infusoria in that to feed the fry until they are large enough for the bbs. Their stomachs always looked good and full so I knew they were getting plenty to eat.

Microworms are a good food though, so I would use those if you can get them. But the infusoria is a good idea if you want to get going and can't wait for the worms. The only issue I had when I used the microworms was the gunk that gets into the water when I put the worms in. The worms I had were cultured in oatmeal...a bit messy. But if you put a popsicle stick in the culter the worms would crawl up it and then you can dip it in the tank with the fry.

I had no problems syphoning out my tank with the fry in there. I had them in a 10 gallon and used an airline tube to syphon the water out...watching very carefully for any fry that might take a trip. If any did I just put them back in the tank after I was done removing water. Just suck them back up the syphon tube and back into tank. I did a water change every day in my tank for a quite awhile using this method. I also had a 5 gallon standing ready all the time with aged heated water to replace what I took out...and syphoned it into the fry tank with an airline tube, so it didn't create a big current. The change water tank was on top of my hutch next to the fry tank so that I could do this.

Just a few ideas for you to knock around Fishinme. Have fun....wish you all success in your first attempt !! :)

[fishisme]

Oh ok, Could i use a light because there is know sun out, well there might be but its -20. so could i use a light?

[tricksterpup]

Oh ok, Could i use a light because there is know sun out, well there might be but its -20. so could i use a light?
Where are you located?

[fishisme]

Morse sk Canada,

[Hannys_Papa]

Just saw this thread in the FS part of AC - maybe its of use ??

http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61503

[fishisme]

well i think i am going to try the infusoria, so i might try to spaw them on the weekend :D, i will empty they water to 5-6'' tonight and change 50%.

[knashash]

What about baby brine shrimp? Cant imagine any food being small er than that.

[tricksterpup]

What about baby brine shrimp? Cant imagine any food being small er than that.
BBS aka Baby brine shrimp is still to big for betta fry, micro worms and vinegar eels are the way to go.

[TheMightyQueenPixie]

I know it is difficult to immagine, but honestly I have had betta eggs so small 3 could fit on the head of a pin...

[fishisme]

I have saw pics of the eggs, Its hard to believe that those eggs turn into those nice looking fish. I cant wait. I only got the time saturday, and i got to go to town and get a better lite system so i will miss school :D

[tricksterpup]

I stole this from Aquaculture.com
for those who want to know more on Microworms.


Welcome to the world of Nematodes :)
Nematodes need love too!

Phylum Nematoda ;) aka micro worms - PURCHASE NEMATODES

Nematodes look like tiny earth worms under the microscope and are quite common. They can be found in sand, debris, mud, and vegetation. Along wet areas of any body of water nematodes are likely living! They are not well understood, as there are a great many species and not many people have studied them. Taxonomic and ecological studies are lacking, and most information is from the early part of the 20th century. They are generally avoided because of their smallness, and thus making them hard to identify. There are a great many undescribed species, so if one would want to be the first to describe a nematode and get their name attached... here's your chance!

A good deal of the information available is written about the thousands of parasitic or predatory species of nematodes. This is because some of these nematodes affect us directly, and thereby brings the little 'worms' to light! A few reports of aquatic species exist, and some 1500 species have been reported world wide. But according to Pennak, it is probably a small percentage of the species in the world because they are diverse and range in areas from extremely cold climates such as Polar Ice, to Tropical climates. They also occur in deep water. Pennak reports "as of 1967" around 500 species have been recorded in Europe.

In our case, and in most nematodes, they do look like tiny earth worms, and they wiggle all the time. This wiggling allows them to work through whatever substrate they are living in to digest food, move about, and survive.

Aquaculturists use nematodes as a food for small larval organisms. Invertebrates and vertebrate carnivorous larval forms will eat nematodes. The size of a nematode compares to a brine shrimp nauplii, in being smaller in diameter, and several times longer. Larval fish, for example, will slurp them like spaghetti!

There is not much literature on nutritional value of nematodes. But they are used with good results. As with most feeds, none should be used as primary, but a part of a balanced diet (heard that often enough?)

In = commercial of nutritionally balance breakfast..

SETTING UP A CULTURE:

Obtain a micro worm starter culture or wild collect them.

Using a plastic container = butter container, 4 oz tupperware, plastic shoe box, or something similar with a lid. It is recommended to put a few small holes in the lid to allow for breathing.

Use the following: Corn meal, oatmeal, baby cereal, bread, possibly any other grain you can get to a mushy consistency. Cooking the Corn meal or other grains, helps in making it mushy, (hominy grits might work too) but allow cooked feed to cool to room temperature before adding your nematodes or they will cook too. Baby Cereal doesn't need to be cooked. Nevertheless make the feed mushy... not too wet. A depth of 1/2 inch or less seems to work well. Sprinkle a pinch of bakers or brewers yeast on the top, and add your culture of nematodes. Within a few days the culture will start to spread out, and if the container is small, they will have taken over the whole surface in a day or so. The wiggling mass can be seen easily by raising the culture to a light at a little below eye level, and look at the light reflection on the culture surface. It should be writhing with worms!

After several days there will be so many worms they will be migrating up the sides of the container, even on the lid. They can be scraped off with a blade, or in the case of petri plates, the lid can be removed. Either way, then dip the blade or lid into the tank you wish to feed.. Or you can collect them into a bowl, by rinsing the lid/blade into the bowl. Then use an eye dropper to dispense the worms among your tanks. You can also harvest an entire culture by rinsing the culture into a sieve of 105 microns. Some of the feed will remain with the culture then, so you may want to use a larger sieve to catch the larger food particles, and saving the rinse off (which has the worms in it.) Then pour the rinse into a 105 micron screen to collect the worms.

Depending on the cultures, type of feed and temperatures the cultures can last up to several weeks, or go bad in a few days. If they start to smell, make new cultures. If activity stops on the surface, the culture has died... dump it.

You can add another sprinkle of yeast or mix in some new food if the culture appears to be declining in population. But making a new culture is almost as easy, and keeps any smell away. Keeping several new cultures starting up every few days, or once a week, depending on size of culture, will keep you in nematodes :)

HARVESTING NEMATODES:

Nematodes crawl up the sides of the container, they can be scraped of the sides, and fed directly to your larvae. Or you can use a 53 micron screen and rinse them of the meal juice they are in. Another method mentioned on our Bulletin Board by Doris can be found here: Click HERE and that thread has some interesting methods... Primarily using a stick for the little worms to crawl up, another is using something like filter floss, and rinsing the worms into a feeding bowl.

Nematodes make a great microscopic project for study!

As for feed, a good many fish will eat nematodes. Larval predatory organisms will eat them as a first food, and many adult 2" - 4" organisms will lap them up! I've read it's a good Cory food, and have reports from Betta (Siamese Fighting Fish) liking them.

I know Fat Head and Bannerfin Shiners like them, both the larvae minnows, and the adults. Using a large 6" tall x 12" wide x 24" high plastic storage bin, I was able to produce enought to fill 1/2 cupt of solid microworms. That harvest fed a great many adults, but it was a lot of work sorting the nematodes out of the food... still it worked, and they liked the worms bunches.

NEMATODE KIT DIRECTIONS:

In Kit:

1. plastic container with lid
2. 1/4 OZ Oatmeal
3. Pinch of yeast
4. 100 ML Nematode (microworm) culture
5. Small meshed screen

1. Place oatmeal in container and wet until moist
2. Sprinkle tiny bit of Yeast (don't dump whole container, only need a tiny pinch)
3. Pour nematode culture over mixture
4. Poke a few holes through lid
5. Lay screen on top of container
6. Sandwhich screen between lid and container so it is taught. That will keep most bugs out :)

Bibliography

* Fresh-water Invertebrates of the United States, 3rd Ed. Protozoa to Mollusca. Robert W. Pennak, John Wiley & Sons, Inc. pages 226 - 245.
* Unknown Author of Data Sheet I received ;)
* Sachs Systems Aquaculture, ©2001 SSA Internet Publishing.

[fishisme]

when should i leave the light on? When do i turn it off?

[fishisme]

Ok i let them together and its been almost half a day and they are not showing to much interest in each other? should i leave them in for a couple days?

[Lynguini71]

I did a Google search and ran across this page you might want to look at:

http://members.shaw.ca/aguadebeber/

Click on the link for the stock shop and you'll find microworm cultures in there.

[fishisme]

ok i put them together, its been almost a day and they havent spawned? Whats up and how long does it usally take?

[fishisme]

Ok i read that Lynguini71, so i still got some time, it says it can take up to 36 hours... my femail fins are a bit beat up but still no spawn? so what now? my male is not paying to much attenchion to her? what should i do?

[Beeker]

When I raised goldfish fry, I fed them hard-boiled egg yolk. It breaks up very well into a fine dust in the water. Would that work? My fish are very vibrant in color and very healthy. They love it too.

[fishisme]

O well my fish was not interested in each other :( I think my male is dumb... He probly gay, i dont think he likes girls. So i guess ill try a diffrent male, since its the only femail i got and can get :(

[tricksterpup]

O well my fish was not interested in each other :( I think my male is dumb... He probly gay, i dont think he likes girls. So i guess ill try a diffrent male, since its the only femail i got and can get :(
Don't get fret, he will turn around next or the time after. It takes time, it doesn't happen on the first try for this guys. But in time, you will be breeding bettas like TheMightyQueenPixie. Its like riding a bike, you fall once, you get up and try again.

But it might not be your female, if you can afford it, try another. Do the regular QT for about month, feed him good foods, such as Blood worms, either live or frozen. This should get him into shape for breeding, I would try a screen instead of the jar, have them both in the same tank. Feed her the same good foods and go from there.

[fishisme]

Ok, what kinda screen do you youse? My femails fins are kinda niped up what should i use? I wana get her felling good, i can afford stuff but were i live its hard to get :( I finnaly found a femail, it was in saskatoon, should of bought more that 1 :(

[fishisme]

well my betta male is doing what he is supost to but the femail is not she keeps hanging out by the bottom so he cant rap arround her. i might try and get a diffrent femail.

[tricksterpup]

Ok, what kinda screen do you youse? My femails fins are kinda niped up what should i use? I wana get her felling good, i can afford stuff but were i live its hard to get :( I finnaly found a femail, it was in saskatoon, should of bought more that 1 :(
Try the PennPax screens.
http://www.pennplax.com/Images/AQUAscans/Various%20Aquarium%20Products/TDTankDividers.jpg

[TheMightyQueenPixie]

Is she "head down" under the nest or off by herself hiding??? If she is under the nest that is good...Leave them alone...

[fishisme]

PennPax were can i get them? i am going to leaver her in there for a whyle longer.... hes trying to wrap arround her but when he trys she goes to the bottom... Crazy Girl. I hope it works.

[tricksterpup]

PennPax were can i get them? i am going to leaver her in there for a whyle longer.... hes trying to wrap arround her but when he trys she goes to the bottom... Crazy Girl. I hope it works.
That you will have to do your own research, I do not know your area. If you want to do mail order, you can try thatpetplace.com

[fishisme]

well still know spawn :( shes chewed up pritty good

[tricksterpup]

well still know spawn :( shes chewed up pritty good
Then I would take her out, let her heal up and rest a bit before you try again, maybe in a month or so. I am sure its like reptiles you want to get your female rested after a battle like that.

[TheMightyQueenPixie]

Well, keep your chin up kiddo...Atleast you have a male that acknowledges the female...I have one that I could STRANGLE...I often catch him "practicing" his embracing all by himself...Ofcourse he has to hold onto his tail with his mouth, so his tail is a sad looking frayed stub...To make things worse he is in the spawning tank with a female and have a wonderful time all by himself under the bubble nest...Girlie comes by and he chases her off!!! I keep these fish why???? :thud:

[fishisme]

ya i took her out... know spaw. i will let her heal up bee for i try it again.

[PufferBoi]

hey, i have bred a couple of bettas in my time...first thing is you need the water temperature rite...it should be around 82-86...thats the temp bettas like to breed at....also its a good thing to have a couple of live plants in there....you will also need many many many hiding spots for the female when u release her in your tank.....from the picture that u posted the female looks bigger then the male....thats not a good thing. but sometimes it doesnt matter....another thing you could do is keep the water shallow...in my 10 gallon i only filled up the water to 5-6 inches. also have something your male can build a nest under that wont be ****ty and break his nest up...try a piece of wax paper. thats about all you need...give it time. patience....