how many water changes/day?

[Lady G]

I need to know if you can do more than 1 water change per day..when trying to get water cleared up? I've been doing about 30% tp 30/g each day and it is still cloudy, can I do more than 1 each day?

[vitesse]

What are your tank's test numbers and how long has it been set up? Did you cycle it already?

[daveedka]

If you have been doing one per day, assuming proper treatment for Chlorine/chloramines, and similar temperatures there is really no limit to how many water changes per day.

The bigger question is what are you trying to clear up in the tank?

Green water? Bacteria bloom? organic debris?
Dave

[rbell219]

You could up your percentage of water changed to 50 a day and get quicker results. Post your parameters and symptoms and we can help you out more.

[Cichlid Guy]

I`d be more interested in your filtration than water changes.What filter(s) are you using?

[Lady G]

Ok here are the answers for the questions ya'll asked:

NitrItes: .26 -.50
NitrAtes: 0-5.0
(I do those tests with liquid test kit)

Hardness: 150
KH: 40-80(colors are too close somewhere between)
pH: 6.8
(these I still use my test strips for so may not be as accurate)

Ammonia: ? (I just ordered a liquid test kit from Big Al's Fri. so should be here soon).

I do use Tetra Aqua "Aqua Safe" for chloine/chloramine. I ordered another brand though from Big Als.

I am trying to clear up EXTREAMLY cloudy water. It's not green though just cloudy.

I have had the tank for about 5 months now, yes it has cycled but I am wondering if it is going through another cycle for some reason. This all started after I rearranged my plants and added 2 new ones?

Filter used: Whisper 20-40 It is external, has a white filter with carbon in it, then a black "scrubbie like" thing in front of that where the water goes back into my tank, the control valve for the water flow is set to highest setting. (Hope that is what you needed to know about it).

I think I got them all, please let me know if you need anything else answered.

[Cichlid Guy]

is that you might need better filtration.Tell me the size of the tank and I can make suggestions?

[Lady G]

It is a 30/g tank

[Cichlid Guy]

I have a 30G tank and here is my filtration.I use a Penguin 330 HOB (hang on the back) filter and I also use a canister, a Fluval 204.I think using filter floss in a canister would make your water crystal clear. :)

[Lady G]

What is filter floss? I guess mine is a HOB then, I really know nothing about filters so forgive me... but what is a canister?

Thanks,
Gin

[kyperman]

I would think that a 5 percent change each week would be fine unless you have some major problem you are trying to clear up. Anything else and you are just making work for yourself and stressing out your fish needlessly. :dance:

[kyperman]

You might want to think about changing your light bulb to something a little more white, if you have the standard daylight buld, it could seem that your water is a little cloudy...I have the same issue right now...the water is perfectly clean and clear, but the daylight buld makes it seem yellow and cloudy to some degree.

[Lady G]

Ok I did about a 50% (I say about cause it wasn't fully 50%) water change today, changed my lightbulb (WOW what a difference) I didn't change it when I got it and who knows how old it was, and put a new carbon filter in before I went to work. I came home tonight and my water is almost completly clear again!! Still has a little cloud in it but not much, I tested my water and the nitrItes are still a little high (.26) was hoping my ammonia kit would come today so I could test it but it didn't.
So it looks like I'm finaly on the road to recovery!! :clap: :dance2:

Thanks everyone!!!!

[RTR]

A 5% change per week is IMHO & IME grossly inadequate for any occupied tank. That is the garden path to OTS.

[Lady G]

Yes, I know that a 5% change would be inadequate...that is why I didn't really say anything about that. I personaly have to do around a 30% water change every 2-3 days because I am overstocked (due to newbie mistakes), and until I can get something bigger I have to do these water changes. My levels had all been good until recently I am guessing with my bulb being so dim, stirring the tank up like crazy rearranging when I got my newest plant with the combination of to many fish in a 30/g had something to do with it. But luckily I haven't lost any fish and my water is clearing up (aside from the slightly high nitrIte level).
I'll just be happy when I can finaly get my 55/g I have so desparately been trying to get, almost had it twice now but had unexpected life cr** happen that changed that so now I am back to saving up for it (a little over half way there now!!)

Thanks again,
Gin

[kyperman]

It would depand on your tank size which I didn't ask...I was assuming it was my size, which it probably was not. If you have a 55 gallon tank, than yes, 5 percent would not be enough, but if you have a 15 gallon, it would be plenty I would think. Do you really change 50 percent of your water at a time? That seems like an awful lot to me to do every week. I have always heard that it is much better to do weekly 5 to 10 percent changes than 50 percent changes...your fish would stress it seems to me. I have have very good luck so far with 5-10 percent each week or even every other week.

[RTR]

Five percent is not a sufficient water change in any tank. IMNSHO that is terrible advice. What you have heard is grossly incorrect. That advice dates to the early 1930s and went out of fashion before that decade was over through the efforts of Dr. Willian T. Innes.

Current best practice calls much larger water changes than Dr. Innes suggested, about 50% partials in any normally stocked tank or in any supplemented planted tank.

While it true that the average in the hobby is much lower than that, it is equally true the average hobby fish lives no longer if as long as it would in the wild, and likely does not attain its full size potential either. With good care, in captivity both of those marks will matched at least and commonly on lifespan and not infrequently on size, significantly exceeded.

It might be good to review your practices.

[fish_breeder_05]

swich your falter cartreges. Do you have fish in the tank? If you do than more than once a day can and will stress them to death. once every 3 days if you must should be ok. Are the plants live? if they are fake add as many lives as you can afford.

[gourami]

Wait a second RTR are you saying that tanks should have 50% water changes? that seems a bit much too me, my fish seem fine and i do 25% weekly changes.

[kyperman]

Forgive me for I am lowly newbie to this forum, but not to fishkeeping...I have done very well thus far, my fish are healthy and happy.

I would never do a 50 percent water change every week, that seems very excessive and needless stress to the fish. Math was never my strong suit..I have a 30 gallon tank, I do a 5 gallon change each week or so. Let me get my calculator out.....................that what 16.6 gallons at each change.

So other than my math being bad, I still would not do 50 percent at a time.

[Cichlid Guy]

I really think that many posts on this topic are missing the point. The original post was how to solve a situation of the tank being cloudy.My suggestion is that he/she needs better filtration.Do some research on canister filters and I think adding one will solve your problem and cut down on your water bill. :)

[Roan Art]

Gin,

You've been in the forums for a while now, so I think you know who you should listen to -- who gives the best advice and the advice that *works*.

Please let us know how it's going now so we can get your thread back on topic.

Roan

[kyperman]

I don't mean to give "bad" advice, just trying to be helpful...I would seriously like to know how much water most people do change each time. Maybe I don't need to change as much cause my fish are not real heavy "poopers" and I am running a BIG filter on my 30 gallon. If I had some mongo size fish I can see having to do larger changes more often.

My bigger problem is dealing with my hard well water, but thats another thread. Again, I recently discovered this forum and really enjoy it, so forgive me this.

[Roan Art]

I don't mean to give "bad" advice, just trying to be helpful...I would seriously like to know how much water most people do change each time. Maybe I don't need to change as much cause my fish are not real heavy "poopers" and I am running a BIG filter on my 30 gallon. If I had some mongo size fish I can see having to do larger changes more often.

My bigger problem is dealing with my hard well water, but thats another thread. Again, I recently discovered this forum and really enjoy it, so forgive me this.
Well, I wasn't specifically pointing the finger at you, but at a few people -- but since yah asked!!!!!!!!

Most people here do a 25% water change a week, some do 50%. I do 50% sometimes twice a week, depends on the tank and what's in it. My rainbows do better with more frequent water changes, ergo I change the water more frequently.

As for you not needing to change as much -- I'd argue that point big time. Let me explain -- simply -- why routine water changes are necessary:

Once the beneficial bacteria are established in your tank, and assuming it's not interrupted, the "cycle" actually continues:

Fish and other organics produce ammonia. You probably know that.
Ammonia is eaten by a particular bacteria. They produce Nitrites as an end result. You probably know that, too :)
Nitrites are eaten by another bacteria and nitrates are produced. Again, you are probably aware of that.

Okay, so we have no ammonia and no nitrites. What happens to the nitrates?
Nothing. Nitrates will stay in your tank unless one of two things occur:

1. if you have plants, plants will utilize them. Not all of them, but quite a few
2. you do regular water changes. These will rid your tank of nitrates.

So, even with plants, nitrates can and will build up. They build up much more slowly if the tank is planted, but they still build up. I just helped a lady from Glasgow through OTS, which is what we are really talking about here, in his heavy planted tank. He lost two of his five clown loaches, but we got the nitrates down and everyone is all better now.

Plants can help, but you still have to do your part.

Nitrates are less toxic than ammonia and nitrites, but they are still toxic. Have you ever seen pictures of dead fish floating in a river that has been polluted by fertilizer run-off? The fertilizers increase the amount of nitrates and phosphates in the water to lethal levels.

Nitrates can:

damage the red blood cells ("brown blood") and thus cause the fish to be deprived of oxygen
increase susceptibility to disease
cause a delay in injury healing, thus allow secondary infections to set in
slowed growth
sudden death with very little stress (another fish harassing them, catching them)
lack of energy, stagnant behavior
new fish usually die very quickly as they cannot deal with the high nitrate levels


Your fish will "acclimate" to the increasing nitrate levels, but new fish cannot deal with such a change. Even the old fish will reach a breaking point and the first ones to go are the bottom feeders.

Nitrate levels in excess of 80ppm are lethal.

Here are a couple of darn good links that probably explains it better than I can:
http://www.thepufferforum.com/articles/small/ots.html
http://www.thepufferforum.com/articles/water/otswater.html

So why'd I type all that? 'Cause trying to explain it to someone else helps me understand it better as well :)

Hrm, I think I covered anything, but I know if I made an error that someone will correct me.

Roan

[Lady G]

Ok everyone, my water is actually back to clear now :clap:
Just to straighten out a few things here, I really didn't mean to start a back and forth war :eek: BTW I fully trust Daves advice abd he said that as long as my temps were close and I used proper amounts of chlorine remover more than one change a day would be fine. (Not his exact words but pretty much what he said).

Anyway, 1st: NORMALY I would not be doing water changes like that but I was trying to get my water to clear up before it (whatever) took over my tank and I started loosing fish. I did get a new lightbulb, I changed my carbon filter, and I did the water changes that I said some 50% some 30% each day, after I did 2 days of 2 water changes (around 30% each), my water is clear again :dance2: without 1 fish loss :thm: ! My nitrItes are still alittle high (.26)

2nd: I do around a 30% (alittle less) every 2-3 days because it is needed, I am overstocked I can't help that... it's already done (although I did give away 2 irridesent sharks) because I could never provide the tank size they would need. My point is these water changes have NOT hurt my fish in any way, in fact I think they have become accusom to it, they crack me up b/c they chase my vacume around as I am cleaning :laugh: and since I have started doing this my water levels (untill recently) have been pretty close to perfect. So I believe I am doing what needs to be done for now, believe me I wish I had my new tank I have been trying to get it would be much easier on me and I'm sure my fish but I don't have it yet so IMHO if it aint broke don't fix it! In other words this is working for me so I will continue to do it.

I originally came to this site (and so thankful I did) b/c I had sick columbian sharks and didn't want them to die (needless to say they did), but that is how and when I learned just how overstocked I was and not to EVER trust just the word of your LFS. You see we ended up in the beginning with 3 bala, 2 columbian, 2 irridesent, 2 dwarf gouramis, and a rainbow shark, this my LFS told my son & mother would be fine in a 30/g tank!!! I do still have the bala, dwarf gouramis, and rainbow and thanks to my son 5 black skirt tetras. I have followed the advice of a few trusted people here in this site, thanks to Dave, origon girl, chem(something can't remember full user name) and a few others I have only lost the 2 columbians with the exception of the irridesents I gave away to a friend who is housing them in a hundred and something tank untill they reach at least a foot, then they will be moved to a outdoor pond (basement pond in the winter).

And to whoever it was that recommended a better filter I am looking into that I was wondering if it would be ok to just get another filter similar to what I have and run 2 HOB filters? Are the canisters around the same price though cause if so then I may be interested in that (guess I should do the research and find out huh ;) ).

I just know by the time I AM able to get my new tank I am chalked full of information that will be OH SO HELPFUL thanks to this site!!

THANK YOU EVERYONE!! :D :bowing: :dance:

[Lady G]

Oh I forgot to add yes I have a few live plants in there, just 2 amazon swords, 3 grasslike plants(not sure their name) and 1 small wasteria. Just wanted to add that.

[kyperman]

All makes sense to me...thanks for the follow up. I have to admit I pay less attention to the nitrates tham the other stuff, simply cause I read it's less toxic, but I did have a cory die a few weeks ago...makes me wonder. You have given me something to think about. :)

[Roan Art]

All makes sense to me...thanks for the follow up. I have to admit I pay less attention to the nitrates tham the other stuff, simply cause I read it's less toxic, but I did have a cory die a few weeks ago...makes me wonder. You have given me something to think about. :)Hey, if you even think about it, I'm happy :)

If you are still not sure about water changes and nitrate effects, just pick up a nitrate test kit and test your water. See where it is. If you are still unsure and wondering if I'm off my rocker, just search the web or "nitrates", "fish" and "poison".

Roan

Gin,
That's GREAT! If you want to add more plants, look for anacharis, hornwort, and, I think, water sprite. Those plants are known to reduce nitrites and nitrates in the tank more than others. There are some more plants that help with that too, so if you are interested post a message in the Plant forum and you'll get a nice list.

Roan

[kyperman]

I do have a test kit and tested today, my nitates were a little high. Not bad, but high, I did another small water change today and plan to do another one on Saturday or Sunday. I think you might indeed have been correct about the nitrates. My Nitrites and ammonia everything else was OK.

[Sploke]

Adding a second HOB filter might not be a bad thing. As long as it doesn' create too much current in the tank, you can't really overfilter a tank. FWIW, I'm using an emperor HOB filter on my 30 gal right now, and I haven't used the filter cartidges in a long time. I fill the whole compartment up with bio media. For me it seems to work really well, I just need to put some sort of prefilter on the intake before I start stocking the tank (being cycled right now).

[Lady G]

Yes I think I will get a couple more plants, I am thinking anacharis. I found a site www.driftwood.com and their prices are very low and shipping is not bad either!! There was something about hornwart that I didn't like (can't remember now) Iv'e looked at so many different things but I know there was somethng about it (maybe it was lighting or something like that), I have low lighting right now.

Thanks for all the thoughts and advise!
Gin