Nitrates thru the roof

[IceH2O]

I just took my 1st ever water reading,have had this tank for about 5 yrs..

the results...

Ph 7
Ammonia not .25 but not 0 either
Nitrate 160
Nitrite .25

Are water changes the best way to lower the nitrate? How often and how much should I do...There are only 2 new fish in there..the rest have been in there for 2 yrs or more..

I just took my tap water readings..

Ph 6
Ammonia 0
Nitrates 2.5
Nitrites 0

Also...I'm not fully planted but have about 8 of them..Plan on a few more..I have a powerhead running for airation..I figure plants help with Nitrates,maybe I'm not helping the plants help the nitrates.....could the level of surface agitation release to much CO2...I could knock down the bubbling..

I'm much more worried about the Nitrates being 160 then i am the ammo and trites...They will go down with water changes...I wasn't wanting to know the best way to go about my water changes...big and frequent?..small and frequent?...big/twice a week?..

The fish have been in there a long time and i don't want to shock them to quickly..Like I said this is the 1st ever WR in 5 yrs...I have no idea how long they've lived in those conditions..

Someone also mention Kh..what exactly is that?

Am I suffering from OTS?

I have to go to work but throw as many suggestions as possible my way..I'll see whats going on tonight..

[liv2padl]

a tank which has been running for 5 years and exhibits nitrogen waste product such as yours is clearly suffering from inadequate maintainance. since your tap water has low nitrate levels, the only way your tank water nitrates have gotten so high is by insufficient water changes. moreover, having any ammonia and nitrite in your tank indicates an inadequate biofilter.

a goldfish in a tank with tropical species is a poor idea since the latters temperature requirements are about ten degrees higher. too, a fantail GF needs about twenty gallons for itself ... you've got 11 additional fish in there, a certain recipe for your problems.

palmas bichir - grows to nearly a foot. you've got two of these in twenty gallons? oh boy !!!

you say you're not worried about your ammonia or nitrite levels? you should be. but to the specific question at hand ... you need to perform water changes of about 20 percent every 4 days to begin with, and then increase this to about 50 percent weekly until your nistrate level is down to 10 ppm or less.

then ... please do some research on your fish. you're not doing them any favors.

[tre8160]

Also you didn't mention anything about the conditions of your plants. Are they healthy? What type of lighting do you have? For a low light low tech enviornment it would be best to reduece the surface agitation to minimal. This can be done just by lowering your powerhead into the water columm until you just barely have a ripple on the surface. As far as the airration goes you can and should do away with it completely. You'll notice a nice improvement in your plants, surfuce agitation will disapates co2 to some degree, airation on the other hand eliminates it all together.
As mentioned above start you water changes small and frequent, 20%-30% every couple of days would do and gradually make them larger, 50% and once a wk. You're tap water looks good, I would reccomend one of these http://www.petsolutions.com/Python+No+Spill+Clean+Fill-I-94002514-I-C-37-C-.aspx it'll make your life a whole lot easier.
Kh is your carbonate hardness basically it's your waters ability to maintain a steady pH. I'd say with a pH from the tap of 6.0 that you have soft water with low carbonate hardness.
I agree with the post above in finding another home for the goldfish. I don't have any experiance or knowledge of the eels that you have. So I can't offer any advice there. The clowns loaches will outgrow that tank someday too. Everthing else will do just fine.

[RTR]

Old Tank Syndrome:
http://www.thepufferforum.com/articles/small/ots.html

Water Changes for OTS:
http://www.thepufferforum.com/articles/water/otswater.html

HTH

[indiginess]

nice article, RTR (OTS)

think i'm gonna tear up that val stand. been a couple of years.

whats HTH?

[Boohoo]

HTH...Hope that helps. ;)

[Slappy*McFish]

or happy to help.

[IceH2O]

the only way your tank water nitrates have gotten so high is by insufficient water changes.

I admit I got slack on the water changes...Thats why I'm thinking its not OTS but just lack of water change..


a goldfish in a tank with tropical species is a poor idea since the latters temperature requirements are about ten degrees higher.

Everything I have read puts my fish in the same temp zone...it sits between 76-78..


palmas bichir - grows to nearly a foot. you've got two of these in twenty gallons? oh boy !!!

I'm getting a 75 gallon for them next month..plan on putting the Clown Loaches in with them..



you say you're not worried about your ammonia or nitrite levels?

I'm thinking they are just high because of the water changes..if the Nitrates come down won't everything else?


Also you didn't mention anything about the conditions of your plants. Are they healthy? What type of lighting do you have?

They look good..new growth on all the plants...Its low light,need more I'm sure but its 1 wpg..


Kh is your carbonate hardness basically it's your waters ability to maintain a steady pH. I'd say with a pH from the tap of 6.0 that you have soft water with low carbonate hardness.

I know I need to add hardner to my pool,is there a way to add it to a tank or is it better off just working with what I have?

Thanks for all the input..I did a 25% change today..Will every other day be ok?I was doing 50% before I slacked off,guess I was on the right track.

[IceH2O]

Would it help any to remove all the gravel and rinse it off? My gravel cleaner had broke and I haven't vaccumed in over 6 months...this is probably the biggest reason for the nitrates being so high..

[pbrack]

I'd say no, since you would release a bunch of detritus all at once, which won't be good for your fish!

[tre8160]

I'd say if the fish are still alive then I wouldn't do anything too drastic. Start the water changes small and frequent and gradually work your way into a steady maitenance routine. The nitrates will go down with the water changes alone, doing too much at once will only stress the fish as well as the bio filter.

[IceH2O]

k..Thanks guys!

[Slappy*McFish]

...and buy yourself a new gravel vac.

[IceH2O]

Ok I've been doing 20%-25% changes everyday for the past 4 days..My NitrAtes are still way up there at 160 ppm..

Whats the rule of thumb on checking parameters? Its been about 14 hrs since I did my last water change..Should I wait the 24 hrs to get accurate readings?

I know the time difference won't change my Trates but does it change everything else?

My Trites were close to .25 last time I did a check,this time its closer to 0 but not quite there,Am is at 0,but my Ph has dropped to 6.6..My ph out of the tap is 6 so I figure that has something to do with it dropping..Would I be better off letting my tap water sit for 24 hrs before a water change?

I've read that to help get Trates down you could add something like Nitra-Zorb,some type of filtration material,anyone ever try this? Its not a liquid chemical so I feel safe using it..what do you guys think?

[Boohoo]

As for lowering your Nitrates, you shouldn't have to use anything other than good clean water changes. Unless you have a high Nitrate reading from your tap water.
If it hasn't been a full 24 hours and your tests are detecting any Ammonia or Nitrites, buy all means do another water change.

[tre8160]

Just keep doing what your doing. Chances are your nitrates were twice as high as your test kit reads, so if the kit reads 160ppm your nitrates could've very well been up and over 300ppm.

[TKOS]

I agree that good water changes are all that you need. With your pH dropping off like that I would wait 24 hours between water changes to allow fish a chace to adjust. They have already been living in high nitrate conditions and trying to fix it overnight won't help. So keep up the changes you are already doing, allow those levels to drop slowly and that will help your fish to adjust. This may take awhile.

Once the ammonia nd nitrite levels stay at 0 after a 24 hour period then the cycle is working correctly again with the proper levels of bacteria. At this point the tank will be much more stable and closer to tapwater conditions so you can (if you wish) think about adjusting things like hardness. But I would wait until that point of stablity before worrying too much.

[IceH2O]

I figured it would take more than a few days to get the Trates down but I wanted to make sure I was on the right track..Trites are on the down so thats good..

The funny thing is I haven't noticed any abnormal changes to the fish..They're all very active,no signs of stress,eat well,no sign of disease..

Am I just lucky?

Did I just jinx myself?

They've been under these conditions for a while I would assume..Couple of months..

Would adding more plants help? I understand they eat Trates..I'm looking at java ferns because they are low light.

[IceH2O]

so you can (if you wish) think about adjusting things like hardness. But I would wait until that point of stablity before worrying too much.

The KH and PH levels seem to rise and the GH levels drop after 24 hrs..The CO2 levels are well into the good range even with the drop with water changes so I'm not too concerned with them.

[TKOS]

Adding plants couldn't hurt and Java Fern are pretty easy ones. Java Moss is good as well. Both are very undemanding and will consume some nitrates.

The fish have just become used to the conditions over time. That is why it is really important to not shock them with drastic changes. You are going about this the right way with the slow changes to water chemistry. Once the levels get to the accpeted 20-40 ppm nitrates you will be able to return to a more regular schedual of maintanance.

[IceH2O]

It took 9 days of WCs but I finally have my Nitrites and Am at 0 and my Nitrates at 20!!

This is 24 hours after a WC..I'm going to wait a few days and take another reading,probably Saturday or Sunday.Hopefully it doesn't shoot back up.

[orthikon]

This situation actually also happened to me. I did not have a nitrate test kit and my tank is a bit overstocked. I, however, am doing 25% weekly water changes but apparently it was not enough to reduce the nitrate levels. Also it has only been about a month since I doubled the fish load.

The first time I measured my nitrates (the first time I did it I did not shake the bottle reagent #2 for the Aqua Pharm test) correctly it was VERY red. Probably > 160 ppm. Since then I did 4 daily 50% water changes and so far the nitrate has stabilized to 10 ppm (planted tank).

The article was REALLY helpful. Thanks RTR.

IceH2O: Are you using the Aquatic Pharmaceuticals test kit? I am asking because it seems hard to distinguish the levels from 40 upward. It doesn't actually matter since it is not advisable to get to levels that high. I am compiling info for a test kit database/FAQ (in the products section) so any info is appreciated.

[IceH2O]

IceH2O: Are you using the Aquatic Pharmaceuticals test kit? I am asking because it seems hard to distinguish the levels from 40 upward. It doesn't actually matter since it is not advisable to get to levels that high. I am compiling info for a test kit database/FAQ (in the products section) so any info is appreciated.

Yeah I am..the Master Kit..and I agree the colors are so close its hard to distinguish,but like you said,you really only need to know up to the 20.Anything over that is in the bad range anyway.