Phosphates and Dwarf Gouramis

M

mcfadds

AC Members
Sep 26, 2005
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Looking for some information/opinions

We have a 25gal setup as a community with 6 long fin zebra danios, 8 bloodfin tetras, 5 small angles, 2 upsidedown catfish, a rainbow shark and 2 algae eaters. we have two live plants (I can't remember the names)

We have had a total of 6 dwarf gouramis over the course of the last three months. all have died under similar (not the same) symptoms. Fish are fine at first (2 lasted over 2 months) then colours gradually fade, fish eat well but seam to get smaller, then all of a sudden will stop eating and hide in the corner and eventually succumb. Two had discoloured scales above and behind the eye/head, 2 had enlarged abdomens, and the last 2 expired more suddenly overnight a day after a water change. My suspicion is that the fatal illnesses developed only after the fish became stressed and weakened. All the other fish seem perfectly happy.

We were chasing nitrate levels until we learned that 20ppm is ok but we still do 2 water changes of 25-30% each week vacuuming the bottom in the process. Ph, ammonia and nitrites are all zero.

After the last 2 gouramis died we took a water sample to our local store and they concluded high phosphates +30ppm to be the cause. Now we're chasing phosphates.

My questions:
what could be causing the high phosphate levels? given our frequent attention to the Nitrate levels (were now testing our water prior to water changes with no phosphates found). we used ph-down twice when establishing the tank in august but have not used it since. We use cycle and waste control.

were the gouramis more susceptible to phosphates or is this perhaps not the reason for there demise?

help will be greatly appreciated
 
Phosphates shouldn't really interfere with fish health unless they're abnormally high. Even then I don't think they do anything to fish; they just cause lots of algae.

One thing I would say is that once your tank is established in the biofilter department, you needn't use products like Cycle. (Many people feel that stuff is useless altogether.) Just dechlorinator and making sure the water is at temp is all you really need when water changing.

The shark and the algae eaters can be a little aggressive. There could be some stressful nipping. We in fact just bought a dwarf gourami last week and the whole time he was in quarantine he was constantly looking frightened. He would dart whenever one of us got too close to the tank. We put him in our ten gallon last night and he's been nothing but a skittish wimp since. This morning when I put the light on, he darted back and forth across the tank like he was being chased by a chainsaw killer. In word: wuss.

Other than that, I'd say that maybe you're just having bum luck with gouramis. Are they all coming from the same store? Are you taking good time to acclimate them? Using a quarantine tank? The first two that lasted for a while might have just died because...well...living things have this strange tendency to die at some point in their lives. In fact, I've yet to encounter a creature that hasn't or will not die one day. Like that girl with the peanut allergies last week. She kissed her boyfriend and died. These things happen. :joe:
 
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thanks for your reply

The fish actually came fro three different stores. As it happened one of the best one came from Walmart! (desperately seeking healthy-looking fish).

We followed the acclimation procedures and all but one of the fish initially appeared very happy. The one I believe was already ill when we brought him home.

Our gouramis tended to be exactly the opposite of yours. each took a turn dominating all the others, one even harrasing the other fish in the tank, not just the other gouramis. In fact that one was so aggressive we considered returning him. Finally solved that problem by getting another, larger dwarf and within 36 hours we had a new "cock of the roost." good thing was he was only aggressive to the point of controlling the gouramis and ignored the other fish. At that point we had three beautiful gouramis, a flame, a neon and a "mix" the big one (neon) died first after a couple of weeks of shy behaviour, and the other two followed a week later with no warning.

I'm reluctant to try again, so we're just watching the remaining fish and considering perhaps a different species.

thanks for the info on phosphates it confirms my suspicions – perhaps the store is a little too eager to push their chemical products
 
Gouramis certainly are an interesting genus.

We have a three-spot named Ralph Kramden in my twenty gallon, and he is the pciture of contentment. He is basically The Don of the tank, controlling the food and keeping the other fish in check. Nothing at all seems to make him skittish or phases him in the least.

Our dwarf likes to nip a little, but seems scared of his own shadow. hehe

Maybe you should try the three-spot? Aside from their tendency to be controlling, I've had nothing but good luck with them. Ralph is now close to two years in my tank with no sign of letting up anytime soon.
 
Are you sure the LFS says they were above 30ppm. That does seem abnormaly high and I've never actually seen an aquarium test kit that goes to that range.
 
Yes, it would. High phosphate would cause a huge bloom of algae.

Did you say your pH is "zero"? (If you didn't know, its based on a scale of 1-14. 1 being acidic, 14 being alkaline. 7 is neutral.) Try testing it again and see what the number is. I've had fish live perfectly fine in a tank for a month with the wrong pH level for them, then they suddenly get sick and die.
And what are your nitrate levels?
 
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