Assorted Cichlids

[DarkTetra]

I was thinking about checking out these fish. I have done the basic community aquariums for years. I think I am up to a new challenge. At Petsmart, I saw a tank labeled "Assorted Cichlids". They were labeled as only getting to be 2 inches or so. There were yellow ones, silver ones, and a few with stripes.
Any idea what kind(s) of fish might be in the assortment? You can even recommend some tank sizes for these little guys, since I must get a new tank as well. (Crack in one of my tanks!)

Thank you!

[liv2padl]

they're very likely African cichlids from Lake Malawi. these are polygamous mouth brooders which have very specific requirements: (a) you MUST keep only a single male with 4 or more females (of the same species) or the spawning aggression of the male, directed at too few females will result in their death due to stress. (b) they require hard, alkaline water, (c) they are nearly strict vegetarian feeders ... too much protein will kill them, (d) they need ALOT of rockwork in their environment which must form alot of caves of various sizes and (e) that amount of rockwork dictates a minimum of 55 gallon tanks.

[snakeskinner]

well, sort of. First off, they are normally always a type of mbuna from lake malawi that you'll find as "mixed cichlids" or "mixed africans". the 2" is wrong. Most mbuna reach around 5-6", some smaller, some larger. liv2padl is correct for some species but not all. Most of the mixed tanks are omnivorous fishes and can have protein but there are some species of mbuna and other cichlids toat do not do well with non-vegetarian diets. Tropheus Moori (not an mbuna) from tanganyika will die fairly quickly with high protein diets. Best thing you can do is read about Mbuna and their diets. I recommend going to www.cichlid-forum.com . They have some articles, one talks about "malawi bloat" which is what happens when the wrong fishes are fed too much protein. The stocking levels go against normal rules. liv2padl's advice is fine if you were wanting one species and planning to breed them but I do not recommend trying to breed mixed or assorted fishes of any kind because they are most likely hybrids and should not be spread to other people who might mistake them for a pure breed of some sort and possibly ruin a species somewhere down the line. These fishes are normally overstocked in the tank to spread aggression. If you were to buy a 29 gallon tank and put 2 or 3 mbuna in there, you'll likely end up with one bully and the others dead. I have not kept these fish personally but have tons of friends who have. I recommend visiting www.cichlid-forum.com or ww.cichlidforums.com and go to the malawi forum to post your question or you might find it in an article. don't worry about the 1m/4f rule for what I think you are doing. I'm guessing you'd want about 8 or so mbuna in a 29 gallon but talk to those that have done it successfully on one of those forums to get a better stocking level idea. If you want a particular species and breed them, that's a whole different ballgame. Kyle

[~*LuvMyKribs*~]

I agree generally with what has been said.... except for the 29 gallon tank. Way too small for these guys. Absolute minimum is a 33 gallon with 3 yellow labs. Anything else, your gonna need about a 55 gallon tank. Leave stocking smaller tanks to when you are more experienced with particular species. Its much harder to successfully keep these cichlids in a smaller tank than it is in a larger tank. Also, overstocking doesnt really work in anything under a 75 gallon tank, it would be too small for the agressor to loose site of the victim and start chasing someone else, which is the principle behind overstocking. Forget overstocking, as also those 'stocking level' rules, becuase it all depends on which species you want. ;)

Also try looking at: http://www.malawimayhem.com. They specialize in malawi cichlids and you'll find a wealth of information there in thier articles section.

:)
-Diana

[kay-bee]

Also helps to have a particular or group of species in mind when wanting to buy (or research the type of fish that you've seen in the tanks there), so you have an idea of what to expect when these fish mature. I've seen a few 1.5" venustus swimming around with the little mbuna in assorted tanks before.

[snakeskinner]

how is a 29 bad and a 33 good? that's barely any difference at all. like I said, I've never kept them but I have 3 friends who have used 29's for them successfully. I also have a friend with a 180 packed full of them. a normal 29 has pretty good dimensions for these fish. With some rockwork at the back you could have quite a few in there as long as you stayed away from the ultra aggressive species. Kyle

[tbarblover]

I am pretty new to this forum and have been keeping fish for about 3 years. I have been keeping cichlids for about 1 year and although I admittingly dont know as much about these fish as some of the people here, I do have some experience as to what is being discussed here. Before I moved my fish into a 55 gallon (soon to be a 100 gal hopefully), I too kept my "assorted cichlids" in a 29 gallon. I really enjoy these fish (I have 3 other fish tanks) more than any others, but I really dont like it when I come to a place like this for advice and people tell me that things have to be done one way and that's it. I am not a zoologist or whatever and have no intentions on breeding my fish, therefore I believe it is my right to keep the fish as I want to. My advice is to start with whatever tank size you have available, and go from there. Most of these cichlids are very small to start with, and you will be able to keep them in a 29 for about 6 months to a year before they outgrow your tank. I have 11 "assorted cichlids" in a 55 gal right now, and before they were in here, they all were in a 29 gallon living and getting along wonderfully. I also had the entire bottom of my 29 gallon covered in marine sand and six inches of rock work for my cichlids. I kept them in there for about 11 months until they reached 3-4in each at which point i bought a bigger aquarium to satisfy what i felt they needed. I am not posting this to start an argument or anything, I just wanted to post my experience and share my knowledge and opinions. Also, am I correct in saying that the venustus is a predator? How big do they get? I have one mixed in with my "assorted" cichlids and he seems to be getting along great with everyone else.

[kay-bee]

In regards to the n. venustus, they're ambush predators requiring a high-protein diet, fast growers and get up to 10" or little more.

Advice and the decision to follow it or not, ultimately I believe the well-being of the fish should be in the fore-front. Experiences are always different and results may never be the same, but it doesn't hurt to set up for success.

[tbarblover]

kay-bee, what is the fish in your sig , because i would like to have one.....

[~*LuvMyKribs*~]

Like I said before, if you are more experienced then you could attempt keeping these fish in a smaller tank.

There is a difference between a 29 and a 33, and its in the length of the tank. snakeskinner, you give great advice, but you said so yourself you have never kept these fish. Speaking from experience, I would not keep them in a small tank. I started off with malawis in a 30 gallon, and within 6 months I upgraded to a 90. If your plans are to upgrade within 6 or so months, then there would be no problem keeping juviniles in a smaller tank. But, I like to reccommend stocking based on the fish living in this tank indefinately, since you never know what might happen. If you have to keep the 30 gallon tank then I would NOT reccommend anything more than a trio of yellow labs or I. sprengae "rusties". Also taking into consideration the adult length of these fish its really not fair to pack them into such a small tank. Most mbuna will max out at 4-5 inches... and a 30 gallon is no place for them.

By far, stocking mbuna into a smaller tank is MUCH harder than in a larger tank, no matter what the aggression level (cus all mbuna are pretty aggressive). You cant have non-aggressive mbuna, even yellow labs which are notoriously mellow are quite capeable of killing each other.


therefore I believe it is my right to keep the fish as I want to. My advice is to start with whatever tank size you have available, and go from there

While I think your intentions are good with that statement... I think you should consider the well-being of your fish first. Buy a tank to suit your fish, or fish to suit your tank. No one should follow cookie-cutter rules, I think this hobby is full of experiences and everyone should be encouraged to try something new. But remember, these are living creatures we are dealing with. We should always consider what will make them most comfortable, and there are certian things that should be done and certian things that shouldnt. I may want to stick an oscar in a 10 gallon tank, but that doesnt mean I should. Its the same with africans. Dont get large fish if you cant provide the adaquate tank size for them in the future.

-and the fish in kay-bee's sig is a P. socolofi I believe...

:)
-Diana

[kay-bee]

That's correct, it's a p. socolofi. If it weren't for my red zebras, he'd probably rule the tank.

[DarkTetra]

Looks like fate (and budget) has me in shiny new a standard 20 gallon. It's a little small for the advice listed above. I am not familiar with any one species to try the smaller tank set up. I think I will cycle, research and check back here for something that stays small, and if nothing comes up, community planted here I come. Thank you for the responses!

[tbarblover]

no offense but what is a p.socolofi in english? electric blue hap? I am learning like a lot of people here are as well.....

[kay-bee]

Common names for the pseudotropheus socolofi include "powder blue" and "pindani".

They are quite common and you can usually find them in the assorted cichlid tanks (beware of hybrids though) as well as their own species tanks in the LFS. A good strain doesn't display barring or stripes.

[snakeskinner]

I understand Dark Tetra, you can only work with what you have but a 20 is great evenso. If you want to stay with cichlids, why not check into some Kribs there at the petsmart. They have a great look all themselves and if you wanted to breed them, they are much more interesting than the mbuna anyways. They are not as flash and in your face as the mbuna but they have more character and the breeding/fry rearing is quite a site. From what I understand, once the mbuna decides she's done mouthbrooding she spits them out and leaves them on their own. Kribs are excellent parents and will defend their fry very well. I currently have a pair with about a dozen fry. I just wish the tank was in a better spot for me because by the time I can see in the tank the parents have huddled them up in the gravel to hide thinking I am a predator. All of the Kribs I've kept were extremely NON aggressive. They were even leaving pearl danio fry alone in their tank until their fry were out and swimming. You could put a m/f pair of kribs in the 20 and still put some other mid-water swimmers in there like some tetras/danio's, etc. You'd want to avoid other bottom dwellers though like cories or other catfish. The kribs will avoid the top of the water so anything up there would be fine. Actually some epiplatys killies would be perfect but they're a little harder to come by unless you have some sources in your area. If you don't like the Kribs, find an LFS in your area because there are tons of other smaller cichlids (mostly south americans) that will fit a 20. Kyle

[~*LuvMyKribs*~]

I agree kribs or any other dwarf cichlids would work in that tank.

But if you wanted to go something a little different... why not try Lake Tangynika shelldwellers? Thier personality rivals kribs for sure. They are one of the tinyest cichlids and live in empty snail shells... they each have a shell in which they breed and raise thier fry (some are better parents than others). If you have accsess to them (sometimes hard to find) they are VERY worth it. I've kept them in the past and will definately consider keeping them again. :) Thier tank setup is much similar to other rift-lake setups, high pH, rocks, and sand.

-Diana

[DarkTetra]

Thank you all. I will look into those. There aren't any good LFS's close, so I rely on Petsmart and PetCo. I will see what they have. You help is much appreciated.